Al-Rahma Islamic Centre destroyed in 'racist attack' (London)

reply to post by WaterBottle


You just don't get it do you? I have read through your previous posts and you have berated the" evils " of The British Empire. Yet you live in a country that was a product of The British Empire. That's what makes you a hypocrite.

reply to post by WaterBottle


I think you are misinterpreting what is being said here.

People who believe that multiculturalism is something that westerner's must accept.

You want to make out that the British Empire was some destructive evil, and it was not.

The nature of Islam was always conquest.

British colonization was as much a need for survival, as it was pursuit of wealth. The Spanish were actively pursuing enforcing their way of life on everyone, actively trying to conquer Britain.

People perpetrate this myth that the British were the only people on the planet conquering other nations. The Brits just succeeded in beating out their rivals. Mainly because the British were not as brutal as the other would be conquerors, and so did not need nearly the same amount of force to stay in control.

Fighting against immigrants who act like conquerors more than refuges is completely justified.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

What ever you want to say, defending one's self, one's community, ones culture, and one's liberty against aggressors who attack anonymously and randomly is not only the smart thing, but the right thing.

Only a fool would stand by and wait for someone to attack them when the opportunity presents itself.

I would think that if this community center was being used by radicals to plan attacks, then that would be the place where those who would do such things would attack.

The idea that people attack one side, clinging to the cloak of victimhood, when in fact they are the aggressors, just shows that they can not be trusted.

There is absolutely no evidence this community centre was being used to plan terrorism, who would be stupid enough to take that kind of business into a public forum?

Burning down this community centre has done absolutely nothing of any value. It hasnt "defended" any white british people, It wont deter any future attacks IF there is some extremist out there plotting them. The kids that attended that centre are always going to know it was targeted because of their creed/religion, that enables the hate and ignorance to breed itself into the next generation.

Do you really want to live in a war zone? Do you honestly think that the minorities of this country are going to let themselves live in fear of harassment? Are you THAT gullible?

I really don't understand why we're all arguing about the groups involved here.

Radical Muslims are a tiny minority who don't represent or defend anyone but themselves.

The EDL are a tiny minority who don't represent or defend anyone but themselves.

It's two bald men fighting over a comb, albeit two potentially dangerous bald men. If you think the more radical elements of the EDL (the Combat 18 types etc) aren't capable of hacking down an innocent Muslim in the street a la the recent outrage, then you're mad. A lot of the EDL have significant backgrounds in racial violence.

The fact is, the majority of Muslims in this country will never be radicalised, just as the majority of white British will never be 'radicalised' by the far right. The importance of this issue has become so hugely inflated that those on both sides can no longer view it objectively.

As for the community centre - from what I can gather, Somali Muslims are not well liked by other African/South Asian Muslim groups (although I'm not sure why). Assuming this place wasn't burnt down by kids mucking about or right wingers, it's not impossible that it was targeted by Muslims as 'just another worthless Somali building' and hence acceptable collateral damage in trying to provoke the situation.

reply to post by KingIcarus

....... from what I can gather, Somali Muslims are not well liked by other African/South Asian Muslim groups

I mentioned this in another thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Apparently some view them with suspicion due to their alleged reluctance to integrate, reliance on benefits and extremism amongst other things.

Originally posted by Freeborn
I accept that it is only a minority of Muslims who involve themselves in terrorist or even extremist activities - but to think that there is no threat is quite simply burying one's head in the sand.

Pretty much everything in your post could have been whittled down to this.

This is the fact, it is a minority of Muslims who have an extremist view, but the EDL/BNP would have us believe that there are hundreds of thousands, that they all burned poppies, that they're all at home or in a mosque right now plotting to murder everyone.

Its racist, fascist BS propaganda and it's an embarrassment to our country that we have so many with barely functional intellect falling for it.

There had not been a successful terrorist attack in eight years on UK soil before this, so the services are doing something right. There are not weekly or even monthly protests demanding Sharia Law in the UK. There are not anti-British protests with hundreds of Muslims participating. There was not a single "celebration" over the death of Lee Rigby in this country. There has not, as far as I am aware, been a single Muslim person showing any kind of support for his murder.

Also, I still haven't seen them state what it is they want! What's the solution to the imagined thousands of extremists? What is all the protesting about exactly (of course, by protesting I mean getting wasted in the nearest pub before trashing the place and throwing some Nazi sautes)?

Believe what you want to believe, there is plenty of evidence out there for all to see that the EDL is involved with the BNP, C18, National Front and others. There is photographic evidence of their Swastika tattoos, video footage of the Nazi salutes and plenty of documented evidence on Facebook and Twitter of their threats to others (and their truly incredible illiteracy and ignorance!)

Anyone with half a brain and half a keyboard could do some basic research and find this evidence, there is plenty of it out there. Just Google "EDL and BNP" or take a look at all the videos I left in the previous thread on this topic.

Originally posted by KingIcarus
The fact is, the majority of Muslims in this country will never be radicalised, just as the majority of white British will never be 'radicalised' by the far right. The importance of this issue has become so hugely inflated that those on both sides can no longer view it objectively.

Look at the numbers of voting age in the UK and you might see what the problem is. There might be a small minority of knuckle-draggers out there on the streets, but there are potentially more ignorant white Brits who would vote for a far-right party simply because they're ignorant to history and don't understand what they are doing - that's what scares me.

Thankfully, the EDL are dumber than a box of frogs, they haven't been able to capitalize on this because they don't have an enigmatic speaker able to draw in the majority of voting public, and they can't control themselves or each other. They're an angry mob without a message.

My concern is that they might get enough support to be able to create that image and the right PR, or that the sentiment they create might lead to increased voting for another far-right party.

Out of the two, in my opinion, the far-right is a hell of a lot more dangerous than a few religious nutters on the radar of our services.

reply to post by Rocker2013

Pretty much everything in your post could have been whittled down to this.

You dismiss the majority of a post and reduce it to one sentence so as to fit into your pre-determined viewpoint.
Cherry picking.

This is the fact, it is a minority of Muslims who have an extremist view, but the EDL/BNP would have us believe that there are hundreds of thousands, that they all burned poppies, that they're all at home or in a mosque right now plotting to murder everyone.

No they don't.
Some people attached to EDL may express them opinions, the majority do not.
Exactly the same as some Muslims express extremist views, the majority do not.

There had not been a successful terrorist attack in eight years on UK soil before this, so the services are doing something right.

The fact that most of the attempts failed was more down to the incompetence of the terrorists or just good luck.
That in no way diminishes the threat they posed then and the threat militant Muslims pose now.
The FACT remains that there are extremist Muslims who are plotting to murder and terrorise innocent people.

Yes, our Security Forces have foiled several plots.
That just goes to show the threat is indeed real.

There has not, as far as I am aware, been a single Muslim person showing any kind of support for his murder.

Well, got to say that I have seen a small handful of people expressing their support on social media sites - and then of course there's the usual supect;

“Allah said very clearly in the Koran ‘Don’t feel sorry for the non-Muslims.’

“So as an adult non-Muslim, whether he is part of the Army or not part of the Army, if he dies in a state of disbelief then he is going to go to the hellfire.

“That’s what I believe so I’m not going to feel sorry for non-Muslims.

“We invite them to embrace the message of Islam. If they don’t, then obviously if they die like that they’re going to the hellfires.”

www.standard.co.uk...

Also, I still haven't seen them state what it is they want!

I guess an end to Muslim extremists killing people would do for starters.

They are protest group, not a political party - there is a difference.
The likes of Cameron, Clegg, Milliband, Farage, Griffen etc are the one's who are arrogant enough to suppose they know all the answers - one thing's for certain I know I haven't got them.

What is all the protesting about exactly (of course, by protesting I mean getting wasted in the nearest pub before trashing the place and throwing some Nazi sautes)?

As I've said before, that's an embarrassment and does them no favours whatsoever.
But that's the image MSM want to portray and they choose to ignore the majority who protest quietly and respectfully - as it appears you choose to as well.

....
there is plenty of evidence out there for all to see that the EDL is involved with the BNP, C18, National Front and others. There is photographic evidence of their Swastika tattoos, video footage of the Nazi salutes and plenty of documented evidence on Facebook and Twitter of their threats to others (and their truly incredible illiteracy and ignorance!)

Yet again, there's obviously an element of that and they need to be rooted out and treat in accordance with the Law.
But it's exactly the same as the elements in Muslim protest groups who wave placards stating 'Kill all Infidel's' etc and who have known terrorist links - like the two who murdered Lee Rigby.

You casually dismiss numerous terrorist plots.
You blatently ignore several relevant, salient and valid points that I and other posters have made.
Yet you continue to imply that there is no real threat from Muslim extremists whilst obsessing with the belief that the far-right pose a real threat.
Well sorry, I have more faith in and respect for the British people - there won't be a massive lurch to the far-right and there will be no Kristallnacht like happening here in the UK.

If I don't respond immediately to any reply you may choose to make, it's not because I have no answer or whatever else you may think, it's simply because I have other things to do.

reply to post by Freeborn



I'm sorry but the majority of the EDL do believe that.
The post you're quoting is right.
The EDL are not some regular, decent, concerned chaps who are only have a few bad apples, that is nonsense.

Their leader is a bigoted nutter and everyone at the top is much the same.
There may be a few people who joined thinking it was just a decent group for for hardworking, decent Brits to express their feelings, but those are massively in the minority.
It's mostly drunken, thuggish scum who are looking for any excuse for a fight and to abuse some minorities, please don't try and say it's not.

reply to post by alldaylong

I have read through your previous posts and you have berated the" evils " of The British Empire. Yet you live in a country that was a product of The British Empire. That's what makes you a hypocrite.

I berate the evil of all countries. Get over it. You're on the wrong forum.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by alldaylong

 

I have read through your previous posts and you have berated the" evils " of The British Empire. Yet you live in a country that was a product of The British Empire. That's what makes you a hypocrite.

I berate the evil of all countries. Get over it. You're on the wrong forum.

If you hate the British so much why speak The English Language? Go and learn Hindu or some such language.
Then you can be totally anti-British

reply to post by poet1b

People who believe that multiculturalism is something that westerner's must accept.

Multi-culturalism is nothing new, it's been a way of human life for thousands of years.

The US has been multi-culturalist since its inception so...before people were calling sections of the world "westerners".

You want to make out that the British Empire was some destructive evil, and it was not.

It was and still is seeing as it is STILL occupying countries for corporate interests.

The nature of Islam was always conquest.

Religions are used for control, nothing new.

The Spanish were actively pursuing enforcing their way of life on everyone, actively trying to conquer Britain.

Don't even get me started on how evil Spain was.

People perpetrate this myth that the British were the only people on the planet conquering other nations.

Not me.

Fighting against immigrants who act like conquerors more than refuges is completely justified.

These people diss all immigrants, not just the bad individuals. That's the whole point. Then usually cry about how evil multi-culturalism, and continue to be racist and or xenophobic.

I came back to ATS, because I weep for humanity, and have often been able to find reason here to make my sorrow not so heavy. I find myself coming back less and less. In a place that claims the tagline "Deny Ignorance", well damn. I find this attitude being the minority more and more. I spent most of yesterday discussing religion and politics with two muslim brothers yesterday. I felt more companionship and agreement with those two than I have felt with people of my own following in years. They engaged me with what seemed to be real curiosity to my own beliefs, and I recipricated. We talked for many hours, and though we disagreed many times, we ended the meeting with warm embraces. Last time I tried the same with christians, the meeteng ended with idle threats, and my hearty laughter, even if my laughter was a bit sad. I knew their threats were idle, and that they knew less of guns than my girls did.

reply to post by TKDRL

I am very glad that you have Muslim friends, we need honest communication and understanding. Perhaps, out of concern for their well-being in the after life, you should remind them that they are not following the words of the Prophet. From a Muslim website (In English and Arabic):

60:1 O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in Allah your Lord! If ye have come out to strive in My Way and to seek My Good Pleasure, (take them not as friends), holding secret converse of love (and friendship) with them: for I know full well all that ye conceal and all that ye reveal. And any of you that does this has strayed from the Straight Path.

60:13 O ye who believe! Turn not (for friendship) to people on whom is the Wrath of Allah, of the Hereafter they are already in despair, just as the Unbelievers are in despair about those (buried) in graves.

www.muslimaccess.com...

Another Story breaking on Skynews this Morning:

news.sky.com...

Apparently a 'Muslim Boarding School' has been attacked in a similar style to the Community Center!

Investigations are on-going at this very early stage but early reports suggesting it is an attack and not an accident.

I'myself don't know what to think at this point although if it turns out to be another arson attack, well, like I said very early on this thread... seems like there will be more to come.... sporadic incidents!

I think whoever it is... if its organized should really be going after the Radicals who the Government seem to be letting get away with what they want (Preaching in Mosques etc etc).

More from the Link:

ome 128 pupils and staff have been evacuated after a "suspicious" fire broke out at an Islamic boarding school in Kent.

Police were called to the "suspected arson attack" at Darul Uloom School, in Foxbury Avenue, Chislehurst, at 11.50pm on Saturday.

Two men were treated for smoke inhalation and 10% of the building was damaged during the blaze, which was brought under control within an hour.

It follows a rise in religious hatred crimes after the killing of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich last month.

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by alldaylong

 

I have read through your previous posts and you have berated the" evils " of The British Empire. Yet you live in a country that was a product of The British Empire. That's what makes you a hypocrite.

I berate the evil of all countries. Get over it. You're on the wrong forum.

If you hate the British so much why speak The English Language? Go and learn Hindu or some such language.

Then you can be totally anti-British

I speak English because my country used to be a British colony.

And I don't hate British people, don't really know where you got that idea from. If you can't handle the discussion of your countries foreign policy or history then again, you're on the wrong forum. Go on some British nationalist forum or something, I'm sure you'll never hear ANYthing slightly negative about your dear island, made up of invisible borders created by humans, that makes you so emotional for whatever reason.

Japan does not have such islamist problems - no policy of multi culturalism and sensible immigration policy you see

UKIP only possible option I'm afraid

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
Japan does not have such islamist problems - no policy of multi culturalism and sensible immigration policy you see

UKIP only possible option I'm afraid

islamists are not interested in intergrating into the culture to which they move into, they are interested in changing that culture into their own. they demand that we accept them for what they are, but refuse to do the same in the country that they move to. they form groups to enforce laws of islam, even if those laws are in direct violation of the established law of the host country.
is it any wonder why japan does not allow them in?

Originally posted by WaterBottle

Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by alldaylong

 

I have read through your previous posts and you have berated the" evils " of The British Empire. Yet you live in a country that was a product of The British Empire. That's what makes you a hypocrite.

I berate the evil of all countries. Get over it. You're on the wrong forum.

If you hate the British so much why speak The English Language? Go and learn Hindu or some such language.

Then you can be totally anti-British

I speak English because my country used to be a British colony.

And I don't hate British people, don't really know where you got that idea from. If you can't handle the discussion of your countries foreign policy or history then again, you're on the wrong forum. Go on some British nationalist forum or something, I'm sure you'll never hear ANYthing slightly negative about your dear island, made up of invisible borders created by humans, that makes you so emotional for whatever reason.

You keep missing the point i am trying to make, either mistakenly or intentionally.

I am well aware the mistakes Great Britain has made during it's past history. One of those mistakes was the forced colonization of lands over seas. The North American Continent being one of those. A continent that YOU are living on. Your NOT a Native American Indian.You and previous generations of your family are invaders onto that continent. You deride Great Britain for invading such continents but you are not prepared to do anything about it yourself, i.e. GO HOME TO WHERE YOUR FAMILY ORIGINALLY CAME FROM.

Does that make it loud and clear enough for you? And do you understand how hypocritical you make yourself sound? It's like someone saying that prostitution should be made illegal and then go and use a brothel themselves.