My Brother - The Islamist

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I think I understand why news of Westerners converting to Islam alarms both Christians and atheists alike.

Here ya' go ... read this and educate yourself as to why non-muslims are alarmed when they see people who decide they want to join Islam ...

Washington Times - Islamic Cleric Decrees Rape is OK

An Islamic cleric has cleared the path for rebels in Syria, who are trying to oust President Bashar Assad, to rape women, so long as they’re non-Sunni.

Salafi Sheikh Yasir al-Ajlawni, who hails from Jordan but who lived in Damascus for 17 years, sent a message via YouTube: It’s a “legitimate fatwa” for Muslims waging war against Mr. Assad and trying to put in place a Sharia government to “capture and have sex with” Alawites and other non-Sunni, non-Muslim women, Human Events reports. Mr. Assad is part of the Alawites sect.

Get it yet? It's the insanity that is inherent in Islam that alarms non-muslims.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

"I'm more interested in discussing the contents of the video itself'

Please don't lie to me akhi, it is not a nice quality. If you cared so much about discussing the video, you would have done that instead of going on your presumptuous, false, and vain ranting about your assumptions of me being either a Christian or an atheist.

Your first reply in this thread was a long-shot grasping at straws as you tried to launch a character and personality attack against me instead of discussing either the OP video, or the points of my reply.

"Blah blah blah Christians and atheists blah blah blah."

O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin.
[Qur'an 49:12]

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

What "personality death" are you talking about exactly?

The personality death I am talking about is how muslims are ordered to forget about their own rationalizations in favor for "submitting" to Allah's every decree and mimicking Muhammad's example (sunnah). The Qur'an speaks of how people are not to put their conclusions of thinking above that of allah and Muhammad:

"But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not."

Qur'an, Suratul Baqarah, Ayat 216

"O you who have believed, do not put [yourselves] before Allah and His Messenger but fear Allah . Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

O you who have believed, do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet or be loud to him in speech like the loudness of some of you to others, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not.

Indeed, those who lower their voices before the Messenger of Allah - they are the ones whose hearts Allah has tested for righteousness. For them is forgiveness and great reward."

Qur'an, Suratul Hujurat, Ayah 1-3

Clearly, Islam teaches people to become Allah-Muhammadan robots.

And instead of sticking to the point, you want to skew and deflect the debate by mentioning how Hindus, Sikhs, and Jews follow their religion.

Bro, that is not a proper debate! Your rationalizations are equivalent to: "Well other religions jump off of bridges so its justified that muslims jump off of bridges."

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Since your answer to my proclaiming no freedom, peace, or equality in Islam was:

Thats a personal opinion... and can apply to almost anything.

Here's what Islam says outside of my opinion:


• Strive for religious freedoms of speech, expression, and belief, but murder those that use those same freedoms [Blasphemy] in disagreement to Islam. [1]

• Try to reconcile Peace and Understanding with family and friends of the religion you adhered to before Islam. However, murder those [Apostates] that leave Islam. [2]

• Look for contradiction, discrepancy, and fault in other religions, but overlook the contradictions, discrepancies, and faults in Islam. [3]

• Teach Unity that all of mankind is one people descended from Adam, and that the Jews and Christians are brothers/sisters under the same God, but never take Christians, Jews, or any non-believer as a dear or trusted friend. [4]

• Preach fairness, but enforce a tax [Jizya] on non-Muslims. [5]

• Propagate the concept of Equality, but elevate the social, political, and spiritual rank of all Muslims above non-Muslims. [6]

• Promote a message of Freedom, but keep slaves if you like. [7]

• Make a woman's word in official matters equal to half that of a man. [8]

• Allow men to beat their wives and have full control and dominance over them. [9]

• Allow Muslim men to marry up to four women of the Islamic, Christian, and Jewish faith, but Muslim women must only marry Muslim men. [10]

• Punish pre-marital sex by whipping/flogging. [11]

• Allow men [married and unmarried] to have consensual sex or rape their female slaves. [12]

• If you shall ever leave the religion of Islam for any reason, you shall be put to death. [2]



[1] "The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter." [Qur'an 5:33]

`Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. [Tafsir ibn Kathir]

Waging war against Allah and His prophet means hostility against His chosen representatives; or deviation from His laws by overstepping the boundaries laid down by Him; or letting loose a reign of terror to persecute and frighten innocent people in order to deprive them of their rights; or attempts to undermine the cause of Islam and the overall interests of the Muslims; or activities to enslave, exploit and destroy human beings. [Pooya/Ali Commentary]

[2] "Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." [Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17]

"Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him" [Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57]

[3] "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" [Qur'an 2:106]

"When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not." [Qur'an16:101]

[4] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." [Qur'an 5:51]

"O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people...." [Qur'an 3:118]

"For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies." [Qur'an 4:101]

[5] Jizya Tax

[6] "Ye [Muslims] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. [Qur'an 3:110]

"The Believers are but a single Brotherhood..." [Qur'an 49:10]

[7] Slavery in Islam

[8] "Bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her." [Qur'an 2:282]

[9] "Men are in charge of women because Allah has made one of them to excel the other and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them, but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great." [Qur'an 4:34]

[10] "Give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe." [Qur'an 2:221]

"And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those [Christians and Jews] who have received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when you give them their marriage portions." [Qur'an 5:5]

[11] "The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day." [Qur'an 24:2]

[12] "Who abstain from sex, except with their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy" [Qur'an 23:5-6]

"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." [Qur'an 4:24]

"Your women are a field for you (to cultivate) so go to your field as ye will." [Qur'an 2:223]

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jizya is hardly the oppressive taxation system that you are making it out to be. Muslims are instructed to protect non-Muslims and not to tax them 'beyond their capabilities'.

According to the very definitin of Jizya Non-Muslims are exempt from paying Zakat, the tax collected from Muslims and non-Muslims who pay Jizya are exempt from military service which is compulsory for Muslims. But I guess you expect Muslims to risk their lives to defend non-Muslims... who should pay nothing to the state that protects them.

If the United States and Europe said that from now on Muslims must pay a religious tax, would you be ok with it? Because you seem to expect non-muslims to view jizyah tax as a manifestation of equality.

But I guess you expect Muslims to risk their lives to defend non-Muslims

You are wrong again akhi with your vain assumptions.

I would hope that HUMANS risk their lives to defend and do the right thing for OTHER HUMANS.

You clearly can not differentiate your own fellow human from an ideology anymore, because you have the illusion of separation anchored in your heart; muslim vs non-muslim,.... when all logical reality says we are fellow humans. PERIOD. Not this kind of human or that kind of human. We are humans bro, but allah told you believers are brothers,... so that must leave all the rest of us a pigs, monkeys, lowly kafiroon.

Peace.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Do you know which country Christianity is growing the fastest in? China! and they have to hide it.
Also we dont have multiple wives and breed like bunnies

reply to post by Kgnow

If you cared so much about discussing the video, you would have done that instead of going on your presumptuous, false, and vain ranting about your assumptions of me being either a Christian or an atheist.

I was discussing the video.
You said something about how the increase of Islamic converts was "disheartening". I just gave you my take on as to why Christians and atheists find it disheartening. If you are neither Christian nor atheist, big deal. My points remain, as it directly addresses the theme of the video, i.e : converts to Islam.

The personality death I am talking about is how muslims are ordered to forget about their own rationalizations in favor for "submitting" to Allah's every decree and mimicking Muhammad's example (sunnah).

Clearly, Islam teaches people to become Allah-Muhammadan robots.

None of the verses you cited are instructions to become robots. Try again.
Submission to God and revering the prophets are required of Muslims, Christians and Jews. Doesn't make them robots. So if you follow a religion where you don't need to submit to God and revere religious figures, then good for you.... that need not apply to the rest of us.

you want to skew and deflect the debate by mentioning how Hindus, Sikhs, and Jews follow their religion.

Islam IS another religion and therefore should be discussed in the broader context, i.e that of religion.
What I posted was a legitimate comparison to make a point.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Reading your post as to why you think it's alarming .... I can tell you that you do NOT understand why it's alarming to non-muslims. Not at all. Islam drags people down and It's bad for women.

Basically its the same old "Islam = bad" argument.

The antics of the hard core believers are not compatible with civilized society.

Civilized society?
You mean the same civilized society that wages war killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I'm sorry, but that is anything but civilized behavior. The West does NOT hold the moral high ground, and therefore has no business pointing fingers at anybody else.

reply to post by Kgnow

If the United States and Europe said that from now on Muslims must pay a religious tax, would you be ok with it? Because you seem to expect non-muslims to view jizyah tax as a manifestation of equality.

Do you a mean religious tax while they also pay the normal tax as required by everybody else?

I would hope that HUMANS risk their lives to defend and do the right thing for OTHER HUMANS.

In an ideal world, yes.

so that must leave all the rest of us a pigs, monkeys, lowly kafiroon.

I said nothing of that sort. That is your own faulty deduction.

reply to post by cass1dy09

Do you know which country Christianity is growing the fastest in? China! and they have to hide it.

Good for them, I guess?

Also we dont have multiple wives and breed like bunnies

Christians don't "breed like bunnies" because Christian marriages don't seem to last too long. The family institution has pretty much collapsed. Congratulations.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Basically its the same old "Islam = bad" argument.

Truth is truth. I gave the reason why the west doesn't like Islam encroaching.
It has nothing to do with lost values or whatever else you posted.
It has to do with Islam itself. The way it mistreats women, homosexuals, and nonmuslims.
It's very simple.

You mean the same civilized society that wages war killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people. I'm sorry, but that is anything but civilized behavior.

Then you agree that Islam is uncivilized? Considering the wars waged and the mass killings it's done ... and the enslavements of others .... and the mistreatment of non-muslims By your own standards that you just proclaimed, Islam is uncivilized.

The West does NOT hold the moral high ground, and therefore has no business pointing fingers at anybody else.

The west is on higher ground in regards to how it treats women .. in how it treats homosexuals .. in how it allows freedom of choice ... on education and freedom of knowledge and religion .... on a lot of things. Islam, Being the exact opposite of that is why many in the West don't like it's encroachment.