The Philosophy of Star Trek

Star Trek TNG Season 7, Episode 10 "Inheritance"
In this episode, Data meets his mother Juliana. We later find out that Juliana is an android like Data, except she believes she is human. She was created by Data's father after the real Juliana died. All of Juliana's memories were uploaded into the android Juliana's positronic matrix and she was made to believe that she was human. Once Data learns all this he must decide whether or not to tell her that she is an android. In the end Data decides Juliana is better off not knowing the truth and would be happier if she continued to believe she is human.

This episode really made me think about how we really know who or what we are, and how fragile that "truth" may be. Assuming that we are who we think we are, a human being for example, and then being told that you are actually something completely different, an android for example, might shatter the illusion of yourself.

Simply planting the seed of doubt, like Descartes did when he cogito ergo sum'd can, I now believe, really change who you are. After I watched this episode I just sat and thought about what I would do if my wife or dad or best friend told me, in all seriousness, that I was actually a machine, and nothing I thought I knew about myself was true (anyone else remembering The Matrix right now?) I arrived at a feeling of helplessness and, I'm not sure if fear is exactly the right word, but something like fear. The fear you felt as a kid when you realized you'd wandered off from your parents and they were nowhere in sight.

That was a few months ago and I still feel like I'm lost and I haven't found my parents yet, as it were. I just can't shake the anxiety that what if I'm an android, or maybe the Hindus have it right and I'm dreaming the whole universe, or my brain is in a vat, receiving input from a clever computer program.

I mean, how can we really know who or what we are?

Originally posted by ZeroReady
I mean, how can we really know who or what we are?

Who Wants To Know What?

This might help.

reply to post by ZeroReady


we are the imagi-nation.

and where in the world does these thoughts come from?

beware of self alienation, its a slippery slope, all the way to psychosis...

Just enjoy the ride eh? do the living thing and ride it's wave.
Don't bother thinking what If we are someone elses dreams thing cos I did that and came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter anyway.
We are each a single point of conscious thought in a space ship traveling through time and space...just enjoy it

Don't just live, Be.

reply to post by ZeroReady


you are a machine all of us are we are electro-chemical robots with the power of thought what is more interesting to me is the thought... but yeah we are a bio mechanical being... im sorry i just cant get back into that box ever since i broke out no offence intended at all.. to each their own.

You know when someone says something to you and it really gets to you even though you know it shouldn't?
I think that is how simple it is to be influenced beyond knowing one's self.

Regardless of what we are, we should enjoy our lives while we have the chance.
Wondering if you aren't real or if you are a machine isn't going to change the fact.

reply to post by EmmortalKorrupta


But you see, Data knew that telling Juliana the truth about herself would destroy her life, shattering the illusion which had been the very foundation of her consciousness. He made a decision to withhold the truth from her. I would agree with Data, in that I think that knowing (or not knowing) the truth would have a profound impact on one's life. It would make a difference in how you lived. At least I think it would.

I must admit I still have the feeling that something isn't quite right about the reality we all share, but like the poster above says would it be better to know or not?
Darn it OP you got my silly mind wondering again lol
S&F.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Yes, the one seeking to know himself is an illusion chasing a futility. I know that. I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that "I" am an illusion, and may not even exist in the first place. But what does it really mean to not know who you are? I mean, Ok so "I" as I know it doesn't exist because it's only created through the lenses and filters through which it observes the world. But what does that say about the world itself? How can "I" possibly have a place in the world if I don't even exist?

reply to post by ZeroReady


Who said "I think therefore Iam" even If reality is an illusion you are still a single point of conscious thought.
Enjoy thinking about it all

Originally posted by ZeroReady
Star Trek TNG Season 7, Episode 10 "Inheritance"
In this episode, Data meets his mother Juliana. We later find out that Juliana is an android like Data, except she believes she is human. She was created by Data's father after the real Juliana died. All of Juliana's memories were uploaded into the android Juliana's positronic matrix and she was made to believe that she was human. Once Data learns all this he must decide whether or not to tell her that she is an android. In the end Data decides Juliana is better off not knowing the truth and would be happier if she continued to believe she is human.

This episode really made me think about how we really know who or what we are, and how fragile that "truth" may be. Assuming that we are who we think we are, a human being for example, and then being told that you are actually something completely different, an android for example, might shatter the illusion of yourself.

Simply planting the seed of doubt, like Descartes did when he cogito ergo sum'd can, I now believe, really change who you are. After I watched this episode I just sat and thought about what I would do if my wife or dad or best friend told me, in all seriousness, that I was actually a machine, and nothing I thought I knew about myself was true (anyone else remembering The Matrix right now?) I arrived at a feeling of helplessness and, I'm not sure if fear is exactly the right word, but something like fear. The fear you felt as a kid when you realized you'd wandered off from your parents and they were nowhere in sight.

That was a few months ago and I still feel like I'm lost and I haven't found my parents yet, as it were. I just can't shake the anxiety that what if I'm an android, or maybe the Hindus have it right and I'm dreaming the whole universe, or my brain is in a vat, receiving input from a clever computer program.

I mean, how can we really know who or what we are?

I have often felt like this. But it matters not...

Why?
We are spirits in the material world.

Well you still are forming memories just like this one right now, whether this is a reality or your brain is in a vat. It is still processing information. You are still making connections and making experiences. I think that we do control Avatars and that this world is not the "Real One" but...you still must play by the rules and do what you are here for and that is to learn.

Think of it like a video game and this game is called...Being Human. You control your character through all sorts of adventures some might seem very, very boring to you but you as the character it just seems like life. if you die intentionally perhaps you are reset and do it all over again. But if you do it the way it is designed to play out and make it to the end well then welcome to LEVEL 2...

reply to post by ZeroReady


It doesn't matter what you are. Just keep it simple...

Make sure you enjoy what you do, as long as you do it the way you want it, and the way you feel/think you should.

That way, you will live life, no matter what will eventually be reality. Make sure that you live in between the moments of doubt, about who or what you might really be, in between worrying about the future, and taking to much time to stand still at the your past.

In the end, future and past don't matter at all, if you forget to live now.

Who cares if you are an android, as long as you make your time as one worthy of living it.

Just my 2 cents.

Freedom is in your mind. The opposite can unfortunately be a creation of that same mind. So unless you a prisoner in life( by the hands of others, that can not control your thoughts. Ever.) only you can create boundaries, that will keep you from living.

Fear will lead to the dark side...

reply to post by boymonkey74


"I am, therefore I think." makes far more sense to me. Had you not been, you could not have had thoughts.

Originally posted by ZeroReady
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Yes, the one seeking to know himself is an illusion chasing a futility. I know that. I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that "I" am an illusion, and may not even exist in the first place. But what does it really mean to not know who you are?

You are real but what you are is non existence. Existence is the play of light.

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

"I am, therefore I think." makes far more sense to me. Had you not been, you could not have had thoughts.

I agree.

But... Our thoughts still create boundaries. I think cause I am, even if I'm an android.
What makes our thoughts, causing us to think of it as a problem, if our thoughts aren't human ?

As the author of this thread seems to feel.

If you're actually having anxiety about the possibility of literally being an android, I think you're taking things a bit too far, since it would be easy to test the proposition if you so desire.

However, we all have an illusion of our "self" that is unique to our own perspective and isn't necessarily or even in all probability shared by any of our family, friends or associates. Our true nature remains hidden from us while our delusion reigns supreme. Most of us don't think of ourselves as having gaping holes in our character, yet all of us do have serious blind spots about how we are perceived by others. Is there anyone who honestly cannot find any failings within themselves?

We are as we think we are only to ourselves - that's why Juliana's ignorance is bliss, while Data is burdened with being "awake". It's an object lesson like most of the original series episodes.

ganjoa

Originally posted by ZeroReady
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Yes, the one seeking to know himself is an illusion chasing a futility. I know that. I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that "I" am an illusion, and may not even exist in the first place. But what does it really mean to not know who you are? I mean, Ok so "I" as I know it doesn't exist because it's only created through the lenses and filters through which it observes the world. But what does that say about the world itself? How can "I" possibly have a place in the world if I don't even exist?

I is not an illusion. I exists by not existing. All apparent existence appears and is seen by the unseen.
Could existence appear to exist if there was nothing seeing the apparent existence?
Can the seer be seen?

reply to post by ZeroReady


Be happy with who you are. Find joy in what you have.

Who cares if we are in a vat or just dreaming or just participating in another's dream. If you can love, laugh, smile, then you are as human as the dreamer or as close to human as your creator made you.

beez*



*batteries not included

If I were Data I'd tell her. Obviously it is one of Dr. Soongs tests.

Now if he was going to break the news Data would have to become her brother forever and explain everything and answer all her questions as he woke her up and it would be his responsibility.

Juliana was her mother and Dr Soong her father so Data and she (the android in Juliana's image) were family, the android Juliana was their daughter just as Data can be considered their son. Soong programmed Juliana so Data could have a glimpse of his mother and was even prepared by creating a hologram which would respond to key decisions. Because of technical reasons since he aimed for realistic transferral of memory, this made the android believe she was her mother even though Juliana is their daughter. It could have been a chance to become more AI for Juliana.

So he set him up to make an act of true love, unfortunately Data was not yet ready and still needed a mother figure.

But as to what you are you just have to look into any mirror. And/or study biology and your parents truths and maybe how your brothers and sisters interpreted and applied that, then examining how it all worked out in your culture. If you still don't get yourself you need to think about your grandparents, father side first then the mothers' side.