Simple question re: homosexuality

I know there are far other things going on in the world, homeless, hunger, clean water, Etc, it should never have to be this big of a deal, the fact is we are being denied rights and privileges just because of our Sexuality plain and simple, it should not be an issue, we should have the same rights and privileges as any other human because we are human, regardless of sexual preference.

i could say the same about Gun Control, why is it such a big issue when there are far more serious issues? if you say because it's taking away the constitution, it's the same as this issue, all men treated equal, and the separation of Church and state etc

reply to post by captaintyinknots

I can only post things so many times before it becomes tedious and pointless.

Likewise

Not whatsoever, I am just not going to let you divorce yourself from your comments like you are trying to.

I've explained what you've quoted me on.

The funny thing is, you are complaining about it being 'annoying', yet you are WILLINGLY IMMERSING yourself into the conversation. Stop and thing about it for a minute.

You replied to my comment, not the other way around. I'm partaking as a response.

Where did I say anything of the sort? YOU said that it should not be important to people. I said that the idea that you should be able to tell people what is or isnt important is stupid. Which it is.

Already explained. You're stating that what I said was wrong, implying that gay controversy is more important than homelessness and starving.

So its your claim that this is not a life and death issue for some people?

As compared to the homeless and hungry? Yep.

You mean like those that are crying about those 'annoying' gay people?

No, annoying controversy. Seriously, am I hitting a soft spot?

There ya go again, trying to dictate what should be more important to people, and attempting to discredit one topic because another exists.

Its pathetic that you think gay politics is more important than starvation and homelessness. YOU'RE the one who needs to "stay in school."

Yes you are. You said it was not a real issue. *it* being the discrimination facing homosexuals. Again, the words are there for all to see.

Yet again, already explained. You're getting emotional.

I didn't say discrimination wasn't an issue, that's an outright lie.

I said the controversy regarding gay rights should be considered secondary when compared to bigger problems that involve life and death.

Nothing about gay discrimination. ANY kind of discrimination is a big deal.

Good to know you watch CNN. I dont.

To see both sides of one argument? Yeah.

You explained it by saying that you think they are less important than other issues. Which is still trying to justify it, or, at the very least, saying "deal with it".

I explained my point of view. You can whine about how you don't agree with it all you want.

Actually, yes, it is your opinion.

Something that straight-forward and obvious shouldn't be considered an opinion. This is the kind of wishy-washy gray-area-embracing bs that has turned society into a bunch of moral-lacking drones.

Are you serious? So you dont understand why someone facing discrimination daily in their lives might consider that more important, even though you sit here and defend your OPINION that the others are more important, based on the fact that you have been there?

I didn't make any of my statements based on the issue of discrimination. If I had, this would be an entirely different argument. It was the chit-chatting about controversy, NOT discrimination. There's a fine line.

Please, please, step back and think about this. This line of thinking is hypocritical beyond reproach.

From your perspective, I guess. But to me, morals and beliefs aren't subject to my environment and whatever the gay rights activists tell me.

Maybe you are seeing so much attention being given because you are searching it out. Much like you searched out this thread.

Maybe I lurked on this thread because I replied to it a long time ago, and it was under "My ATS" and I wondered "Good lord, why is that thread still going?"

Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

1)So basically you are upset that something is getting more attention than a topic you care about? Imagine how gay people feel most of the time.

You're blowing my statements way out of whack. Sure, people should care about it, but the ONLY THING I was trying to imply was that other issues do not get enough attention.

2)Generalities GENERALLY serve to make someone look foolish.

When you see ignorance in every corner, your vision starts to blur.

3)You are here, making blanket statements that we shouldnt be talking about this because there are other issues. News flash: I serve at a local food bank twice a month. I spent years working with autistic and disadvantaged youth.

And, imagine that, I am able to discuss THIS topic as well

Enough, alright? You're really jumping the gun here.

If its really just my "opinion," why care so much?

It seems like people care more about general fluff than deeper issues, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. That is ALL I was trying to say.

Here is a real Christian, maybe you should all learn something about the religion you claim to follow.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Churches are exempt from the Civil Rights Act, as they are not places of public accommodation if they are solely used as places of worship. This isn't really hard to understand.

Churches are not exempt from criminal law, and any discrimination other than religious choice is illegal.

Churches can only discriminate on what religion they allow.

Further, churches are not exempt from criminal law, even if the acts might seem protected by their religious beliefs-which is why polygamy was deemed an unprotected religious right in Utah in 1878 by the U.S. Supreme Court and why the use of the drug peyote in religious services was ruled illegal in Oregon in 1990.

Nonetheless, the Church has been left with plenty of latitude when it comes to discrimination. According to the attorney I contacted, the courts will not intervene in civil matters where there are "bona fide religious beliefs" to support their act of discrimination. This extends into employment law where "private, fraternal organizations" are exempt from the discrimination laws.

Being gay is not a bona fide religious belief to support discrimination.

But really the point is discriminating against anyone, no matter if you're allowed to by law, is not a very Christian concept now is it? You lot are supposed to be the high moral citizens, yet you judge and discriminate more than any other social group, seriously.

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
I know there are far other things going on in the world, homeless, hunger, clean water, Etc, it should never have to be this big of a deal, the fact is we are being denied rights and privileges just because of our Sexuality plain and simple, it should not be an issue, we should have the same rights and privileges as any other human because we are human, regardless of sexual preference.

i could say the same about Gun Control, why is it such a big issue when there are far more serious issues? if you say because it's taking away the constitution, it's the same as this issue, all men treated equal, and the separation of Church and state etc

Gun control is a little bit different, just because there's an underlying threat beneath gun rights.

If our gun rights are violated, we're vulnerable to a tyrannical government all the more.

The same isn't true with gay rights.

Gun control is a life-and-death issue.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
I know there are far other things going on in the world, homeless, hunger, clean water, Etc, it should never have to be this big of a deal, the fact is we are being denied rights and privileges just because of our Sexuality plain and simple, it should not be an issue, we should have the same rights and privileges as any other human because we are human, regardless of sexual preference.

i could say the same about Gun Control, why is it such a big issue when there are far more serious issues? if you say because it's taking away the constitution, it's the same as this issue, all men treated equal, and the separation of Church and state etc

Gun control is a little bit different, just because there's an underlying threat beneath gun rights.

If our gun rights are violated, we're vulnerable to a tyrannical government all the more.

The same isn't true with gay rights.

Gun control is a life-and-death issue.

And being gay for some people is a life and death issue too. For you and those who think we do not care about anything beyond being allowed to marry, I started this thread here for you all.

Other gay issues

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Churches are exempt from the Civil Rights Act, as they are not places of public accommodation if they are solely used as places of worship. This isn't really hard to understand.

Churches are not exempt from criminal law, and any discrimination other than religious choice is illegal.

Churches can only discriminate on what religion they allow.

Further, churches are not exempt from criminal law, even if the acts might seem protected by their religious beliefs-which is why polygamy was deemed an unprotected religious right in Utah in 1878 by the U.S. Supreme Court and why the use of the drug peyote in religious services was ruled illegal in Oregon in 1990.

Nonetheless, the Church has been left with plenty of latitude when it comes to discrimination. According to the attorney I contacted, the courts will not intervene in civil matters where there are "bona fide religious beliefs" to support their act of discrimination. This extends into employment law where "private, fraternal organizations" are exempt from the discrimination laws.

Being gay is not a bona fide religious belief to support discrimination.

But really the point is discriminating against anyone, no matter if you're allowed to by law, is not a very Christian concept now is it? You lot are supposed to be the high moral citizens, yet you judge and discriminate more than any other social group, seriously.

This is getting tiresome, however, I will entertain you one last time.

The Law outlawing polygamy does not interfere with any Church. Any Church that wishes to believe that plural marriage is a holy covenant is free to believe that, however any member of the Church that acts on those beliefs will be held accountable. This would be the same for any religion that believed murder was appropriate. Your church can preach anything, but acting on those beliefs can get you in trouble.

Having said that, any church, which are private institutions, can withhold membership from anyone they wish, simply by declaring it a religious belief. This is why you don't have female Catholic priests. The Civil Rights Act doesn't apply to any institution of religion as long as said institution is only a place of worship.

Do not mistake my defense of the First Amendment as a -endorsement- of religious intolerance.

I am an Atheist. I have no religion. However, the First Amendment protects them from me, and me from them. And THAT is why it is important to understand the implications.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

Maybe this is something you should consider when making statements like you have been in this thread.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

Maybe this is something you should consider when making statements like you have been in this thread.

I never said anyone was an attention seeker. What?

The OOOOONLY thing I implied was that it seems like people pay more mind to this issue than other life-and-death issues. That's it. And that, amazingly, is the part of my comments you all seem to be ignoring.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

Likewise

If by explaining you mean "you should only care about the things I say are important", then sure. In the real world, not so much.

I've explained what you've quoted me on.

You replied to my comment, not the other way around. I'm partaking as a response.

Ahhhh, so I am forcing you to be in this thread. Ok, I release you. Now whats your excuse?

Already explained. You're stating that what I said was wrong, implying that gay controversy is more important than homelessness and starving.

Provide a quote to back that up. I never said your opinion is wrong. I said it is stupid to tell others what should be important to them.

Its really not that confusing.

As compared to the homeless and hungry? Yep.

So you're clueless....fair enough.

No, annoying controversy. Seriously, am I hitting a soft spot?

Not whatsoever. Am I, by calling you out for what you are?

Its pathetic that you think gay politics is more important than starvation and homelessness. YOU'RE the one who needs to "stay in school."

I never said that. I said: To the people that face it every day, it sure is more important. In fact, I said that multiple times. Please, stay in school

Yet again, already explained. You're getting emotional.

Am I? Thanks for letting me know

I didn't say discrimination wasn't an issue, that's an outright lie.

So now you claim you didnt say that the 'gay controversy' (that is, the fact that they are facing discrimination) is not a real issue? Lies, lies lies.....

I said the controversy regarding gay rights should be considered secondary when compared to bigger problems that involve life and death.

No, you retreated to that after you got called out. And even since then you have claimed it is not important, that it is annoying, etc.

And you refuse to even touch on the fact that for MANY homosexuals, it IS a life and death issue.

Nothing about gay discrimination. ANY kind of discrimination is a big deal.

You're all over the place. THE TOPIC IS DISCRIMINATION. You said it wasnt a big deal.

To see both sides of one argument? Yeah.

Fair enough, though it makes me laugh that you use the "you watch too much cnn" ad hom when YOU are the one that watches the channel. Hypocrisy at every corner.

I explained my point of view. You can whine about how you don't agree with it all you want.

Even if you hadnt identified yourself as a young person, its quite obvious

Something that straight-forward and obvious shouldn't be considered an opinion. This is the kind of wishy-washy gray-area-embracing bs that has turned society into a bunch of moral-lacking drones.

So now, not only do you feel it is your place to tell others what should be important to them, but you also feel that you are so powerful that your opinions should be considered fact?

Some ego on you

Something that straight-forward and obvious shouldn't be considered an opinion. This is the kind of wishy-washy gray-area-embracing bs that has turned society into a bunch of moral-lacking drones.

If its not about the discrimination they face, what exactly is this "gay controversy" that you speak of? did you miss the fact that discrimination IS the topic here?

From your perspective, I guess. But to me, morals and beliefs aren't subject to my environment and whatever the gay rights activists tell me.

So you are saying you cannot see the hypocrisy in saying that what others experience isnt as important as what you have? Afterall, in the end, that is what your position comes down to.

Maybe I lurked on this thread because I replied to it a long time ago, and it was under "My ATS" and I wondered "Good lord, why is that thread still going?"

However you justify it, you are still participating in a thread while complaining that there is participation in said thread.

Fundamental disconnect....

Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

I havent accused anyone of being an attention seeker. You accused people of that. Please do not project your insecurities onto me.

You're blowing my statements way out of whack. Sure, people should care about it, but the ONLY THING I was trying to imply was that other issues do not get enough attention.

So your point is to come here and accuse others of 'whining' about this topic, while whining that they arent paying enough attention to the ones you care about?

Geez louise......

When you see ignorance in every corner, your vision starts to blur.

The two problems I see in this threat are:
1) Don't we have a separation of church and state? If that is true, than how did religion enter into a discussion of legalizing a state marriage license?

2) If this is a discussion of religion, than how could a state pass a law which would change the way gods run their business?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


total lack of perspective, thats what happens when you focus to much attention on one thing. You loose perspective and get out of touch.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

Maybe this is something you should consider when making statements like you have been in this thread.

I never said anyone was an attention seeker. What?

The OOOOONLY thing I implied was that it seems like people pay more mind to this issue than other life-and-death issues. That's it. And that, amazingly, is the part of my comments you all seem to be ignoring.

Really, so this isnt a direct quote, from you?

All this bickering and attention-seeking is exactly what the powers want.

I do have a good laugh when people dont think about the fact that their statements are there for the whole world to see when they try and deny them....

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

Maybe this is something you should consider when making statements like you have been in this thread.

I never said anyone was an attention seeker. What?

The OOOOONLY thing I implied was that it seems like people pay more mind to this issue than other life-and-death issues. That's it. And that, amazingly, is the part of my comments you all seem to be ignoring.

Why are you in the thread, eh? To talk about your distaste for gays? To give your support for gays? Or just to run your mouth about how your issues aren't getting the same attention that gays get?

Yeah, you said why you clicked the link, but not why you are sticking around. You are in a thread about homosexuals, and you are ranting about how homosexuals are getting more attention than other social issues? Seriously? Gain some perspective. You want to discuss your oh-so-important issues, make another thread and stop hijacking this one.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

Maybe this is something you should consider when making statements like you have been in this thread.

I never said anyone was an attention seeker. What
?

The OOOOONLY thing I implied was that it seems like people pay more mind to this issue than other life-and-death issues. That's it. And that, amazingly, is the part of my comments you all seem to be ignoring.

How many more times will you imply, the OOOOONLY thing you implied ?... its been more than 10 times (oh wait ! just read your next post... you've elaborated and said a million times) already Hence now the frame of 'attention seeking' has been applied to you for your numerous and repetitive suggestion. Why not seek out and positively contribute to threads that do deal with your perspective of life and death issues instead of whining within this one about others and what you are constantly implying... which sounds like a hypocritical whine anyway ?
.... and its kinda funny in that you're now stretching out your syllables to phonetically match a whining person who is seeking more attention.
For all the world I wish you would copy/paste your posts and present them to your teacher to be graded as an example of Cognitive Dissonance. I'll give you an A+

reply to post by captaintyinknots

If by explaining you mean "you should only care about the things I say are important", then sure. In the real world, not so much.

I made my point a million times. I'm sorry that, because you don't agree with it, it has to be wrong and "bigoted."

Ahhhh, so I am forcing you to be in this thread. Ok, I release you. Now whats your excuse?

So I should have ignored you? Then I would have gotten the "She ran away cause she knew she was wrong!" behind-the-back talk. I know how people like you work.

Provide a quote to back that up. I never said your opinion is wrong. I said it is stupid to tell others what should be important to them.

I think its stupid that homelessness and starvation are less important to some people than gay politics.

God help me.

So you're clueless....fair enough.

Baseless name-calling.

Not whatsoever. Am I, by calling you out for what you are?

Awww, I'm da big scary bigot, aren't I?

Here's what we've established; You don't like my opinions.

And I don't care that you don't like my opinions.

I never said that. I said: To the people that face it every day, it sure is more important. In fact, I said that multiple times. Please, stay in school

School doesn't teach people how to think and learn. Establishment brainwash, that's all it is.

And besides the fact that I HATE school work, I'm busting my ass to graduate right now. Not just sitting around gathering dust, forcing my big bad opinions on defenseless gay rights advocates.

So now you claim you didnt say that the 'gay controversy' (that is, the fact that they are facing discrimination) is not a real issue? Lies, lies lies.....

The controversy HERE. On this thread. Its getting off beat, off track, and its really starting to circle around itself. That's a separate issue from the discrimination that happens outside of ATS.

No, you retreated to that after you got called out. And even since then you have claimed it is not important, that it is annoying, etc.

That was the underlying reasoning behind my original post.

And you refuse to even touch on the fact that for MANY homosexuals, it IS a life and death issue.

I never denied this, and ONCE again, discrimination in any sense is a big deal.

But I was referring to the controversy being debated in circles here.

You're all over the place. THE TOPIC IS DISCRIMINATION. You said it wasnt a big deal.

Lieeees... I said this meaningless bickering wasn't a big deal. And its not.

Fair enough, though it makes me laugh that you use the "you watch too much cnn" ad hom when YOU are the one that watches the channel. Hypocrisy at every corner.

I watched CNN on the day of the Boston bombing, and that's the only day out of the year I've watched any kind of mainstream media. I'm terrible.

Even if you hadnt identified yourself as a young person, its quite obvious

So?

Is that supposed to be an insult?

So now, not only do you feel it is your place to tell others what should be important to them, but you also feel that you are so powerful that your opinions should be considered fact?

I don't consider those "opinions." So, yeah, I guess I do.

Beliefs are defined as a superego anymore.

So now, not only do you feel it is your place to tell others what should be important to them, but you also feel that you are so powerful that your opinions should be considered fact?

Oh my God. I wasn't referring to discrimination, I was referring to people whining about the problems, not doing anything about them, and not paying any mind to other problems like homelessness and hungrr. I think that's a bit screwed up on humanity's part.

So you are saying you cannot see the hypocrisy in saying that what others experience isnt as important as what you have? Afterall, in the end, that is what your position comes down to.

Whatever you say.

However you justify it, you are still participating in a thread while complaining that there is participation in said thread.

Returning argumentative responses, yeah.

I havent accused anyone of being an attention seeker. You accused people of that. Please do not project your insecurities onto me.

So your point is to come here and accuse others of 'whining' about this topic, while whining that they arent paying enough attention to the ones you care about?

Wouldn't be an issue if you didn't blow everything in my comment out of proportion.

It was a simple comment, dude. Get a grip.

If you don't like it, tough for you.

Everyone;

total lack of perspective, thats what happens when you focus to much attention on one thing. You loose perspective and get out of touch.

Lack of perspective. Ok.

Really, so this isnt a direct quote, from you?

You don't think the powers want that? I can't throw in an extra thought?

I do have a good laugh when people dont think about the fact that their statements are there for the whole world to see when they try and deny them....

When did I deny saying any of that?

Yeah, you said why you clicked the link, but not why you are sticking around. You are in a thread about homosexuals, and you are ranting about how homosexuals are getting more attention than other social issues? Seriously? Gain some perspective. You want to discuss your oh-so-important issues, make another thread and stop hijacking this one.

I'm here because everyone's having a hay-day thread-jumping me right now, and I'm replying. I didn't intend for everyone to get so butthurt over that little comment I made.

Originally posted by LexiconV

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Maybe anyone with beliefs opposing your's isn't automatically an attention seeker...?

Maybe this is something you should consider when making statements like you have been in this thread.

I never said anyone was an attention seeker. What
?

The OOOOONLY thing I implied was that it seems like people pay more mind to this issue than other life-and-death issues. That's it. And that, amazingly, is the part of my comments you all seem to be ignoring.

How many more times will you imply, the OOOOONLY thing you implied ?... its been more than 10 times (oh wait ! just read your next post... you've elaborated and said a million times) already Hence now the frame of 'attention seeking' has been applied to you for your numerous and repetitive suggestion. Why not seek out and positively contribute to threads that do deal with your perspective of life and death issues instead of whining within this one about others and what you are constantly implying... which sounds like a hypocritical whine anyway ?
.... and its kinda funny in that you're now stretching out your syllables to phonetically match a whining person who is seeking more attention.
For all the world I wish you would copy/paste your posts and present them to your teacher to be graded as an example of Cognitive Dissonance. I'll give you an A+

edit on 30-5-2013 by LexiconV because: adding in the 'million times reference' in next post

I'm repeating myself because it seems like everyone's asking me the same questions over and over.

Why are you here replying? So its humane to discriminate against gays?

This subject has become so touchy and sensitive that indifference becomes outright hatred. I just wanted the heated debate to simmer down a bit, because it seemed like everyone here was losing their grip a bit. And look, see what's happening now?

Jesus Christ.

reply to post by ANOK

Just because the church created a monopoly on marriage, however long ago, does not validate you denying people rights.

What "right" would that be exactly? Please enlighten me how that statement comes from the brain and not from the stomach.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I certainly believe that some such couples can pull off amazing rescues of traumatized kids and do wonderful things with them.

I don't believe that's even remotely likely to be true across the board. I don't remember or know what the percentages are. Some research indicates it's not too great.