Police swoop on the homeless taking sleeping bags and food parcels in co-ordinated raids in Redbridg

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

Read my above post, there is a chance this entire escapade was fabricated by the homeless man as you earlier implied. The recorder still stands by the original article though. Ah I dont know anymore It is very likely that the police are telling the truth, if so it was very stupid of them to not deny taking the sleeping bags and food in the original statement they gave to the reporter.

The police probably didn't assume that by removing the items from the area that they were stealing them..

Kudos and star for doing the further research that shows there is always two sides to every story

reply to post by destination now


yes and if true ( which im guessing it is ) that guy also succeeded in making a large group of ATS'ers feel mighty sorry for him.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by stirling

 

OMG, almost everyone in the US and other countries have a bit of brit in them, hardly dying out. As far as the homeless go, something has to give and it is not going to be pretty no mater what the resolution. I think about that movie Children of Men where walls are built to keep the poor in. That will be the future if we continue on as we are.

I was watching a Twilight Zone or Alfred Hitchcock the other night were they made mention of all the people in the world at that time and they said something like 500 million. I thought could that be right? I mean we are growing so fast and intelligence nor compassion are able to keep up.

edit on 25-5-2013 by antar because: (no reason given)

I brought this over to the next page because I think my points are valid. This is such an important statement that the police are making and I doubt that they were happy doing it.

Ok, lots to say, i'll start with the first one I saw:

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
Homeless people and bums (there is a difference IMO) are a real problem for society. This isn't a wide open mountain side where folks can chose to set up camp and make it home.

People spend a lot of time, money and effort to make their towns and cities a nice place to live so you can't blame citizens for not wanting them around messing it all up. They are dirty and live dirty. The beg for money and get it through soft extortion and badgering. They often are criminals and drug addicts. I don't want them around my house, kid's school or anywhere I might be going for walk quite frankly. It's we the citizens who complain to the officials which police answer to and eventually are ordered to use strong tactics to get these "undesirables" to move on.

But we all recognize that these people are humans too and deserve some compassion. I don't want anyone to be cold and hungry. But I truly believe most homeless people have zero desire to really work for a better life. I see them every day on every corner, pathetically limping and begging for money until the light turns green and the cars start moving...then they shout to their buddy on the other side of the street asking how much they got, counting their wads. This one "Homeless pregnant mother" (according to her sign) has been with child for three years now.

So, is there an answer? I don't know

This is, perhaps, one of the coldest, most callous things i've heard anyone say; ever, and i've heard alot of very cruel things. I'd love to see you become homeless. I would TRUELY love it, to watch you struggle as myself, and millions of others have. I've been homeless for years. Yea. There's a shelter I -CAN- go too, but the staff that works there sells heroin to the clients, the case-workers take money from those that DO get it, AND they kick people out for reason as STUPID as "oh, you don't have an ID".
I've looked for work, and found nothing. Oh, and FYI, we're JUST as much of a citizen as you are. As I said, I truely hope you find yourself homeless, so you can see exactly what it's like. Now, on to the next one.

Originally posted by Trueman
About homeless :

Don't care about the reason they are homeless, just help them. We are not judges.

The WORLD needs more people like you. Thanks so very much for that comment.

And the last one:

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
When you make homelessness illegal, you had better be prepared to offer everyone a home.

Effin A right, my thoughts exactly.

Now, i'll add my own two cents. Last year I, and several of my homeless friends set up a little place underneath some rail-road tressels. We had water, tents, food. We were all looking for work. It was out of the way, and everything. The police burned everything down, ruined what food we had, and disposed of all our water. Now what on earth would posses someone to kick someone when they're down. When we first got there, that place was TRASHED. WE cleaned it up. WE kept it clean. THEY (the police/tptb) took it from us.

I wish any of you homeless-bashers could REALLY go through what we go through every day. I invite ANY of you who are brave enough to come spend ONE NIGHT in my city. On your own. With only the clothes on your back, and no place to go. I bet NONE of you have the courage to step into another person's shoes.

I wonder could a mod put the update I posted on the previous page onto the start of the thread? It doesnt let me edit it or add to it?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by RedParrotHead

 

This is true. Some of them make a career of standing on the same corner with the same sign. When I was a working professional (social worker), we had an inservice where the cops came and made a presentation about how they were training their ranks to have "crisis management" skills (which is a good thing). They explained to us (the front line fighting for people's dignity and welfare) what techniques they were learning to deal with the homeless.

I had the audacity to raise my hand and ask them what they were going to do about the guy at 12th and Broadway who had been standing on the same intersection for years with a cardboard sign that said, "Going to Denver. Need help."
My boss chewed me out later.

That's only one of MANY incidents I could relate.

On the other hand, here there are so MANY unoccupied "foreclosed" homes and vacant buildings, WHY should these people not be allowed to 'squat' in them? ESPECIALLY the ones who were forced into homelessness by the rampant greed of Capitalist off-shoring of American jobs?

Being that I've been homeless (due to a DV situ, and during teen years fled abusive home and was exploited by men, so I totally "get" the homeless cycle, Especially for abused children/women, etc and it IS set up that way, as a stratification to FEED the 1. Sex industry, fact, 2. Crime profit industry meaning jobs dealing with crime and destitution DEPEND on numbers of broken, etc., as their Bread and butter Fact, 3. What is termed Poverty Industry, where Non Profits and other "charities" as well as do Gooders can earn monies from Exploiting, while helping a few Tokens to keep getting non profit dollars, etc need this segment to flourish as that's Their bread and butter as well as ambition ladder in law, advocacy, philanthropy status, ALSO supplies a HUGE Tax Relief incentive for the Rich who donate to these philanthropy, Yes a FEW are helped, tokens, but Majority of minutes goes to overhead and ADMIN costs, and last but not least 4. Labor pool and political pool control, this includes prison slavery industry. Too much excess numbers of marginalized goes up, exploit or use up squeeze for tax dollars/philanthropy and then CULL until market demand/supply side is balanced, corrected

THIS IS WHY THERE IS TRUTH BOTH IN RIGHT WING ATTACKS ON AS WELL AS LEFT WING ATTACKS

Good cop bad cop analogy, but BOTH work for the SAME BOSS.

That being said, as long as there is a CUBICLE NUCLEAR ISOLATIONIST world set up, the marginalized will continue to grow, no matter What you do, sad but true. As One commenter said

It's attempted murder. YOU are Correct, it is Deliberate attempted murder and it starts in planning at the root.

Homelessness as for causes, the root is the planning aka development FOR the POWERS, etc., the Reasons for however, are varied and comped AND therefore the solutions to, are not as simple as one may think, IF vacant places were provided then monies have to be taken out of one bread and butter to supply this, that would fall on already burdened slave workers of the Serf world. And eventually there wouldn't be serf excess $$ to spend on market consumption, the POWERS won't allow that...

Of all the solutions, notice how None of them allow for two things, AUTONOMY AND SELF EMPOWERMENT.

That would mean, a Free market state or community within a SERF STATE. And hence is the problem...

So, because I by Experience and btw, I WORKED, when homeless, oh yes, even as a teen, so...allow me to say what I learned, in two parts. First, I'll address the long term and permanent homeless, and before I do, let me say, the ONLY reason I'm not homeless now, is because I'm in a DV marriage...this IS the reality for majority of women Especially Disabled women or women with PTSD from rape, abuse, etc., and child abuse trauma, that's fact. But With that you see, is also the Poverty index, with Children this is more so...and why Females are majority of homeless, or single heads of household, Fact. So...with that in mind and no, it's not all teen mothers but that is Part of the home,ess community...

Number one permanent homeless is physical disability, the unseen disabilities such as severe epilepsy, MS, cancers, and mental illness from severe trauma VETS a huge one here, victims of Foster care abuse another huge one and juvenile abuse in system (that accounts for a wide percentage of mental illness that the STATE DELIBERATELY CREATED bread and butter incomes) and alcoholism. Often you hear from Lying media that it's drugs, that's only a small percentage, more in some cities due to meth but That tends to be street kids AFTER they've run away from abuse and the system has screwed them over, but now alcoholism ESP older, is a huge problem, in Every city. Cont

Cont...Alcoholism, until That is treated, don't matter What cities do, those segments want be able to function because YES many of them Choose the alcohol over all else. Same with the meth, this percentage DOES exist and sadly it's THE percentage that EVIL media and politicians use to Justify their b.s.

The Illness, severe that I saw, both on streets and in shelters are the huge numbers, many if them Women abandoned by husbands after they are diagnosed, fact...but not always women, I saw many men who after diagnosis were not able to make it on disability ESP if there was already child support, etc., one man I knew was run over by a car, couldn't walk, brain damaged, driver never caught, he was homeless. These people can't work, the Discrimination against them is LEGAL and where I blame society, on that one, and the housing isn't available. But also, with these types of injuries and severe illness, many of them can't Fuction without care as there are emotional problems too, ESP anger. That's just fact, same with VETS, so their needs are multi, not just housing.

Mental illness, This is why I Loathe the whole psychiatric Death machine, these people many of them COULD have been helped without the drugging, rapes IN institutions (horrid fact) and abuse BY Mengele thugs, many if them against their will electro shocked and left with Permanent brain damaged, cannot function, and are left on streets to die. Again, another segment that STATE made that way...

Then there are those with behavior issues, FACT, that segment exists, again though drugging Doesn't deal with the Behavior NOR does torture in jails, that only makes it worse, but THAT'S by Design, remember that. I would say about sixty percent of what I SAW COULD have been PREVENTED with the Right kind of care early on, and That's your biggest problem right there.

Now, for the second part...some Alternative Solutions...not that it would ever do any good BUT If I could, this is what I would do...

Yet one more stand out proof that the police are just a bunch of stupid, COWARDLY thugs... This is wrong.

"Hey, dog.. you not bright enough to get a real degree? You want us to let you roam the streets in big fast cars with an arsenal at your belt, and beat or even kill people without facing jail sentences? Don't like youngsters, homeless, immigrants and poor women and want them all in prison? Join the Police force!"

- ad from the Department of Homeland Security

reply to post by Echtelion


This is in the UK and the Op has already altered their opinion on the validity of the report, so perhaps be bright enough to read the whole thread before replying...it's only 5 or 6 pages long

OK, cont, see other two replies above...now those are just a summation of causes of long term homelessness, I did not include, cycle poverty which is income based, this factors in a lot of single mothers, that's a housing cost issue...and I did not include job loss, which is what we are seeing a lot of today. I will say n those Two however, the LEGAL DISCRIMINATION against the POOR by design, such as jobs not hiring bad credit, like with med bills, the Demonization of Poor and working Poor, is everything to do with DISEMPOWERING people a d Deliberately Creating a pool to be yes, MURDERED BY THE STATE to control the labor excess, all that is by Deliberate prejudicial design to maintain a property class, that's not Marxism, bye, that is FACT. Your city developers and Chambers, shadow governments within government see to it THEIR LUXURIOUS LIFESTYLE is NEVER threatened, the burden will ALWAYS fall on the middle man, worker, in sales taxes, fines, state taxes, etc. All in all it's to maintain a Cushion for the upper to upper middle classes...fact.

Now, all that aside, point here is, reasons for homelessness have one key central attributed but a host of various means one can Find oneself in that predicatament. Now solution,

Just giving housing wont Stop the feed of homelessness, NOR does it help the homeless, as for a CURE to all the other problems and reason this is vital, is that ALL you would do is create a shanty parasite sub community. Crine WOULD increase because EXPLOITERS PREY ON WEAK...fact.

So solution, EMPOWERMENT and AUTONOMY...and to do that, the first need is to give them back their DIGNITY. To do that, you EXPECT dignity FROM them, the Problem with welfare and housing programs, shelters, is that they all work COUNTER to that, they STRIP DIGNITY by Infantilizinfg the poor maintaining them in a powerless mind set. But HOW to empower with NO RESOURCES? See a LOT of homeless ARE educated, do have skills, but they Have Zero resources. One cannot function in a capitalist society without resources, fact. Now, does this mean hand them a car, food, house, clothes for free? NO NO NO, THAT does Nothing to instill dignity or self worth, it's the opposite. The other extreme which is what we have now, same thing, it does not empower,

But now, there Could be, COOP Incentive Communities that CONTRIBUTE BACK to society by COOP JOBS, meaning, one a housing coop that is low cost, like, trailer parks..yes, condensed housing, that they can help to Build and Maintain, as well as other things, such as,

Mini markets, gardens, crafts/artisans, that communities can buy at fraction of costs. THIS way COOP members can Work, with their disabilities, etc., building empowerment, self govern, etc., While GIVING BACK...it yes would be a mini society within a society However not a sub culture of parasites NOR a sub culture of death camp victims...still a safety net but a net that is continued in Human dignity and WORK. Humans, even disabled, mentally sick, etc., can Still do Something, maybe not on the level that most in society can but they aren't vegetables either. I got the idea from observing the mini communities such as the Amish, etc. (reading, etc). There is No reason why homeless should be forced to live like animals, in hiding, or in utter despair. There is no reason why a group of homeless women cannot form a quilting coop and sew and sell quilts at lower costs to let's say, a rural community with high heat costs. Sounds simplistic,

But there's a host if Incomes that could be beneficial to ALL, let's take, Bridge repair...there's enough bridges in dire need of repaid, or heck, Litter clean up, that's a dire need just about anywhere,

But the Difference is you see, these wouldn't be chain gang punishments, but COOP work that Pays for minimal cost housing with a COOP kitchen, daycare if needed, a meeting place for those who have put in effort and time to guide the COOP community, etc., but one that meets the needs, special needs of residents IN THAT COOP.

There could even be different kinds of coops, such as one specifically for Vets and those with PTSD, etc., elderly, males, they could work in things like car repair for low income or cities, mentor work in training youth in jobs and skills, ESP VETS who have some manual labor skills...another coop for families, another for women with illness and so forth

Rather than Shelters which are Counter productive and more exploitative, there could be coop districts, that of course one would have to qualify for of course, still expected as a human with dignity to work, make decisions as an adult not as a child, with the abilities they have be expected to give back to the overall community as a cousin community per se, but one that has different needs, and so

Yea the solution is not to turn the Entire society into a socialist NOR having the can do carry the cannot do, but to find a middle ground, that different communities can thrive WHILE STILL exchangin

reply to post by ThreeBears


No one is questioning the issues about being homeless..neither it seems are the police..providing you are not breaking any laws.

Making stuff up about the police because you have moved from your homeland to another country to be homeless and believing that you haven't had a big enough slice of the pie and then going and making up stories to tell the press and gain sympathy is a whole new ball game though

I think I'm owed an apology from some ATS members regarding posts in this Thread!

Maybe I should have my 1000 points recinded which were deducted the other day.

As for bread and butter, these coop communities would still need assistance, some policing, etc., depending on the Type of coop, again the coops would have autonomy, but like any community, under guidelines of fair play, so to speak, meaning RULES..but Reasonable rules, rules that Empower, not humiliate. See big differenc between the two,

As for, let's say, someone saying well hey why should coops get this, that, for less effort? Well basics, would be covered WITH of course resident INPUT meaning no hand outs, all required to do SOMETHING even if it's simply caretaker of coop grounds, just like any job. But as for perks, basic needs met, with responsibility to those needs, a clothing exchange store (that they could have bi monthly sales for outside community to purchase, etc bringing in extra income for the coop), a coop garden, same thing with bi monthly market, etc. just enough where they can thrive,

NOT get rich mind you or live high off the hog on coop and fund dollars, meaning where it would be nice time to all to just say oh well I'll fake a disability to get in coop, etc., but at the same time, not some housing give away, with car, with funds, with NO expectation to DO anything for it and burdening tax payers because

One it does more to disempower the ones who need help and two it feeds the poverty machine.

In Nature there are Thousands of different communities with all types of economic give backs to the whole course of Nature, they didn't all do the same things BUT they all do something and the earth grews food, supplies water, etc. if Animals can do it,

Why can't people?

Why do humans only have lions and lion dens and rodents? But no middle ground of beavers and possums and insects, etc? Even the Sloth, contributes to the bio diversity of the nature world. Animals understand the Balance and the importance vital it ALL their survival, without gulags, prisons, unfair systems, etc., or half gorging and another half starving...and yet not ALL social communities and mini economies IN the animal nature realm are the same. Anyway I do beleive, there are Alternatives to the whole macro system that has proven to be a failure and only leads to resentments and war...without reverting to a feudal society (socialism fascism) but it would take THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX.

The way things are done now, don't work for anyone, homeless or home dweller. They only work for the scavengers at top who are killing us all...

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by destination now

 

yes and if true ( which im guessing it is ) that guy also succeeded in making a large group of ATS'ers feel mighty sorry for him.

I urge all ATS'rs to read through the OP's thread again, culminating in this post and think again. Kudos to the OP sharing this story and I am glad that so many people care about those who are less fortunate..

But, sometimes there are different perspectives to a story and it would serve us all well to understand that even if another's viewpoint that may seem to be different to your own is not necessarily bad or the wrong view, but to look at it from their perspective and understand why they believe what they do

Peace

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by destination now

 

yes and if true ( which im guessing it is ) that guy also succeeded in making a large group of ATS'ers feel mighty sorry for him.

So what??

I much prefer to err on the side of compassion, kindness and mercy than support this constant war on the poor, homeless and those less fortunate than ourselves.

What ever happened to "There but for the grace of God" and "What would Jesus do?"

There is a spiritual disease in Western culture where meanspiritedness is applauded and sympathy is deemed a sign of weakness.

God help us...

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


We have screwed up Police here in the US!! This issue is so Cruel and hopefully the Police that were responsible for taking the items from the Homeless will suffer this issue themselves. This Earth is full of resources, and there is plenty for all of us. The US is suppose to be the richest country in the world, but we also have this homeless problem. We must all find a solution to this issue- there are Government Grants for this issue but to many middle persons holding the money just giving it out to whomever they want. Everyone should have a Home!! We all must have Food, Clothing and Housing.

I think it is important that all of us learn how to survive if we do not have a home. We may have to come together and survive. We have people whom have created Tent Cities here in the US because of this issue. The problem with even camping here in the US is that it cost 10.00 a day to just camp- unless you can find a National Park. I do not know how to solve this issue without the proper funding from our Government. This issue just saddens me that other humans are so cruel.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
I know this sounds cold, but meh.....

You do not deserve food
You do not deserve a place to stay
You do not deserve free healthcare



The very fact that some countries try to provide this to everyone is the reason why we are in financial trouble.

Excuse me, but

NO!

You DO deserve food, but the profit/greed/manufactured-scarcity paradigm has made it CRIMINAL (legally speaking) to enjoy abundance. Aren't you aware of the assault on human rights being perpetrated by the corporatocracy? Hell, Monsanto's saying you don't even have the right to farm, if the wind blows the wrong way. And the feds back them up! The corporatocracy is behind the raiding of raw milk sources, organic food co-ops, destruction of gardens in public spaces, and all sorts of other nonsense.

You DO deserve a place to stay. Did you know that in the US, vacant homes outnumber homeless people? It's our current paradigm. Unless you are helping the fat cats to fleece your neighbor (for which they 'give' you a paltry sum called a 'paycheck'), you have no business sucking up air in a corporation-owned house. Never mind the fact that a corporation will never be able to use a house except as a tool in the activity of fleecing your neighbor.

You DO deserve healthcare, which would by comparison be *almost free* if people were actually paid according to how much value they contributed to the economy, instead of some arbitrary B.S. wage which is based on how little can they pay you and keep you fed well enough that you don't pass out at your machine or in your cubicle.

No, pal. It's the hoarders, the 1%, who are ripping the rest of us off, that need to have their stuff taken away, not the ones at the bottom of the totem pole! THEY are the ones who put us in 'financial trouble'.

SMH

Become apart of the system or become a slave/prisoner. Free minds can't be free in this system. It's time to change the system.

this just proves that law enforcement is shamefully responsible for purveying the stigma that the mentally ill or homeless are just non-people and deserve ridicule and oppression, like the dogs and the dogs of war, this is a world in shame.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Now Now! I would'nt go that far!

Your views were not about questioning the validity of the circumstances stated in the original article ( unlike others who posted in this thread). I would be the first to admit when im wrong when it calls for it. I base my opinion on facts I have at the time from what I believe to be credible reliable sources. But in your case your posts lean toward wanting all immigrants out of the UK , and you still havent responded to my reply earlier. The immigrants you speak of are such a small minority, just look at all the doctors, surgeons, nurses, and other hardworking individuals who make a valuable contribution to the United Kingdom, living good lives. You cant tar all immigrants with the same brush..