So you think Qaddafi was a bad guy?

reply to post by HomerinNC

You don't find $3 million being paid to 2 witnesses as...strange?

ETA: Some more relevant inconsistencies

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by LightSpeedDriver

 

Got anything else to corrobate this?

And what proof of these acts being done by this Qadaffi can you show, about as much as the Bin Laden links I wager.

1- Shooting at unarmed protestors

2- Burning houses of people in Tripoli who called Al Jazeera

3- Looting houses of people suspected to have protested against Gaddafi

4- Torturing kidnapped people to death

5- Shutting off water, electricity and communication to cities

6- Indiscriminate shelling of cities with BM21 grad rockets & tanks

7- Attacking ambulances & hospitals and killing injured

8- Using ambulances to move forces & attack on protestors

9- Kill doctors for treating injured people after hospitals were closed for people

10- Using State TV to encourage violence.

11- Attacking & destroying mosques

12- Using sleeper cells in Benghazi to randomly shoot at civilians to create chaos

13- Forcing migrant workers to join mercenary training camps

14- Stealing all money, phones & other stuff of refuges

15- Attacking livestock near attacked cities

16- Destroying graves of dead protestors, taking away bodies to unknown place

17- Bringing in people to dance with Gaddafi pictures in massacred cities

www.sandraoffthestrip.com...

"Methods used to torture alleged dissidents have included tying electric wires around victims' genitals and shocking them with electricity and whipping victims with an electric wire after tying them upside down with a rope connected to a stick."

www.commondreams.org...

Thats just 2 sources, next you'll say Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were misunderstood, right?

Well, since no proof is ever offered, why should anyone ever believe it ??

You can believe whatever you want...and we are STILL waiting for proof of all of this, the public is just to swallow it huh.

Fact is the place is better off than it was, and now it is burnt down, by your friendly "saviors".

reply to post by HomerinNC


I think a more important question to ask then "Was Gaddafi a bad guy" or "Was Gaddafi's Libya a bad place to live" would be "Was Gaddafi's Libya a bad enough place to live that we should intervene at higher priority than other places?". The same question could be asked of Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Nobody would claim that either of these places were perfect, but no government on earth is perfect.

When I hear about a new "humanitarian" mission I always ask myself if the situation in that place is so bad that it should be prioritized for assistance over a place like, for example, Liberia.



While Gaddafi was doing all of those things Liberians were literally eating each other. I do not remember anyone giving a damn about their situation, which was and still is undoubtedly much worse than the situation in Libya or Iraq ever was. If the actions that we took in Libya and Iraq actually had anything at all to do with helping the people there it is worth questioning why those places were prioritized over other, much more terrible places in the world.

It's impossible to know one way or the other which side are telling the truth about whether someone is "good" or "bad, especially when stories of attrocities come into the frame because it's what is always done to demonise the people TPTB want to get rid of, so to avoid guessing I'd have to think personally that you should only judge a man by his actions, and the only actions I can see are quite benevolent.

Free electric, free health care, free housing, free education, very cheap gas, etc.

I'd think education would have to be the main one that stands out, dictators who are truly evil don't tend to give their people much of anything, but the one thing they fear the most is an educated population, because if they can think then your time is limited, which is why Stalin made it his no.1 priority to execute all of the intelligentsia and anyone capable of leading other people, i.e. military officers.

So I tend to think he wasn't anywhere near as bad as the stories - and that's all they are, unsubstantiated stories - make out.

reply to post by AwakeWeAre
No, I don't think he was as bad as the media made him out to be- but he did pull some crazy stunts back in the day. I always was sort of amused by him due to the fact that he and my stepfather looked enough alike to be brothers, enough so that we started teasing him (stepfather) by calling him Muammar back in the 80s.

reply to post by HomerinNC


Your sources aren't really sources. I can make my own website and put the complete opposite and then call it a source.

I bought into all those lies as well until I did more research and found out I was duped. You should do more research as well, like look into the reports by the humane society which found no evidence that Gaddafi did any of the acts he was accused of.

On another note, the free education is something that works and would be amazing if it was that way here in the US but that will never happen because that would mean no more private schools or student loans. There was an article not long ago about the #1 ranked country for education (I forget which Euro country it is) but they have free education as well which is how come they are ranked #1. Well, the person in charge of education over there came to the US to give a lecture on how come they are the best and it was because of the free education and how they motivated the students/people. He was giving the lecture at a prestigious private school and well they ignored him on that part and he realized this was making the crowd uncomfortable

He was neutral from my perspective, which might have been really strange when I was a kid. He wound up being one of the super-names of the planet that motivated my country USA to do things.

I gather his career started with a bunch of guys choosing him to be their leader. Power happened and he liked the gold standard, but not too much, and wanted to build a big city like Hong Kong, where lots of trade was to happen. The big corporate nerds, the same in CIA and Disneyworld, took a visit and suggested he should do things by their ideals. He declined, they left, considered him a threat to their global dominion plans and they then decided to orchestrate large armies and killing machines into neglecting favor of Qaddafi.

That's the attitude most countries have regarding foreign big plans. It didn't help him much that the USA was practically #1 at the time.

Qadaffi's #3 son, I hear, is a moral nightmare. Qadaffi is dead, but still remembered in a recent history international perspective. There were several acts in his lifetime he could have done differently to not have the ends he got, which he didn't take. Not taking the leadership position was one of the options. The "bad guy" narration was courtesy of that CIA industry that shaped the public's opinions with lots of shows about the person who disagreed with their grand plans.

The US media can manufacture a bad guy overnight. A good one is difficult to make.

I think Qaddafi was a bad guy (funded numerous terrorist groups, and this is a fact admitted to by him), but had turned a corner and was doing more good towards the end of his life.

I get the reasons why we did what we did in Libya (same reason we got Saddam, and the same reason we'll hit Iran if they persist with moves to undermine the dollar), but I do feel he was a changed man since about 2000.

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by HomerinNC
Yeah, real nice guy, harboring and training terrorists, bombing discos in Germany, blowing airplanes, yeah hes a real nice guy

And tolerated rape of subordinate females in his ranks.

edit on 21-5-2013 by Miracula because: (no reason given)

Yeah, maybe so... but ALL that sh:t happens in America and to Americans WITHOUT all the GOOD stuff... maybe you wanna paint him as a bad man... that makes EVERY leader we've had since Kennedy a piece of #. (besides Clinton?)

Up front answer to question/heading.

No I absolutely do not think Qadaffi was a bad gent at all.

My anger about the state of this world, how we are slaves to this system is lacking words to describe.
I pray to whatever higher power that is out there that retribution is delivered to these... humans.
If I had the power of a god, I would take GREAT satisfaction in clearing the house of these parasites that live amoung us. I would make it painful, I would make them suffer beyond words.

Knowing I am just a man, powerless at the moment only adds to this boiling hate for the so called masters of this world.
But here I am, typing words on some forum expressing what really ends up being fruitless.

I can see however that, when the masters take complete control and all the good people are gone, they remain in the hell they created. I know my time here is short, even if I live another 60 years it is still short. I don't fear death, maybe the transistion from this world to whatever awaits me afterwards. But these people, they live in fear of their mortality, something they cannot control. What waits for them when they take their last breath? Who knows, maybe all of good people that have died at their hands will be waiting to greet these motherf*ckers on the otherside.

I'm just a slave, but this slave waits... for the moment to act, the time isn't quite there, but when it comes....
Speed and Violence....

Hey does anyone know where these Rothchilds live? lol!

Originally posted by RiAcPeSa2A6M
My anger about the state of this world, how we are slaves to this system is lacking words to describe.
I pray to whatever higher power that is out there that retribution is delivered to these... humans.
If I had the power of a god, I would take GREAT satisfaction in clearing the house of these parasites that live amoung us. I would make it painful, I would make them suffer beyond words.

Knowing I am just a man, powerless at the moment only adds to this boiling hate for the so called masters of this world.
But here I am, typing words on some forum expressing what really ends up being fruitless.

I can see however that, when the masters take complete control and all the good people are gone, they remain in the hell they created. I know my time here is short, even if I live another 60 years it is still short. I don't fear death, maybe the transistion from this world to whatever awaits me afterwards. But these people, they live in fear of their mortality, something they cannot control. What waits for them when they take their last breath? Who knows, maybe all of good people that have died at their hands will be waiting to greet these motherf*ckers on the otherside.

I'm just a slave, but this slave waits... for the moment to act, the time isn't quite there, but when it comes....
Speed and Violence....

Hey does anyone know where these Rothchilds live? lol!

Go read what you just wrote. My first inclination - and, many here - is to agree with it.

Now, explain to me... how are you any different than the people you despise?

It always amuses me how our Government yes men, the Mass Media, push for the support of invading or bombing Countries like Lybia and Syria in order to stop some kind of so-called slaughter, yet these same carpetbaggers completely ingnored the millions that were butchered in Rwanda and the women and young girls all over Africa who are currently being repeatedly raped daily.

Yeah, Makes a lot of sense. It's all about the freedom of the people of whichever Country that they next want to subjugate. Just wait and see what we blood thirsty Americans are gonna do to Red China in order to get out of our debt to them. All in the name of the freedom of the Chinese people of course.

Then again, Maybe The Chinese with their sinister swindles have finally left us no choice but to bite back? We are not rolling over for the Chinese, who I respect a lot, but nevertheless that's..................

......The Spoken truth. ~$heopleNation

It's hard to know whether Q was bad or good. And he's dead. So, it doesn't matter.

But, a question that does matter is this: "Are Libyans better off today, than they were under him?"

Only they can answer this. And that determines whether the guy was good or bad for Libya.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


How am I different then these people that I despise?

Well, first off, I have compassion, which is a major difference.
I'm not driven by greed.
I don't care to control anyone around me either.
I would rather see families stick together then tear them apart,
In my heart, in my soul, I feel great pain and saddness for those that suffer worse then I. Knowing there isn't a damn thing I can do for someone on the other side of the world angers and frustrates me. All I can do is observe.

So all I can really do is make sure the poeple closest to me here at home are safe. I feel love for many because I see them as better people then myself. I know these people would never harm anyone. They have families, children, and I'll be damned if I stand aside and not give my life to protect them.

Thats the difference between me and the monsters wearing business suits. They would turn on one another in a heart beat if it meant saving their own skin and still sleep well at night.

Yea, I know, sounds like what I stated I may have a "god complex" of some sort and if your going to throw that whole "who am I to decide you lives or dies" argument I'll pre-empt you now. God hasn't come down from where ever to do what we can do so easily. There are those that cannot be reasoned with. They take what they want, destroy everthing in their path and not think twice about it. So how do you deal with these people?

You exterminate them because they threaten and destroy families.

Originally posted by RiAcPeSa2A6M
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

How am I different then these people that I despise?

Well, first off, I have compassion, which is a major difference.
I'm not driven by greed.
I don't care to control anyone around me either.
I would rather see families stick together then tear them apart,
In my heart, in my soul, I feel great pain and saddness for those that suffer worse then I. Knowing there isn't a damn thing I can do for someone on the other side of the world angers and frustrates me. All I can do is observe.

So all I can really do is make sure the poeple closest to me here at home are safe. I feel love for many because I see them as better people then myself. I know these people would never harm anyone. They have families, children, and I'll be damned if I stand aside and not give my life to protect them.

Thats the difference between me and the monsters wearing business suits. They would turn on one another in a heart beat if it meant saving their own skin and still sleep well at night.

Yea, I know, sounds like what I stated I may have a "god complex" of some sort and if your going to throw that whole "who am I to decide you lives or dies" argument I'll pre-empt you now. God hasn't come down from where ever to do what we can do so easily. There are those that cannot be reasoned with. They take what they want, destroy everthing in their path and not think twice about it. So how do you deal with these people?

You exterminate them because they threaten and destroy families.

YOU have compassion? Then how do you explain this exact quote from you?

"If I had the power of a god, I would take GREAT satisfaction in clearing the house of these parasites that live amoung us. I would make it painful, I would make them suffer beyond words.

Doesn't sound like you are very compassionate to me!

reply to post by wulff


Did you even read the rest of my post?

I wouldn't dispense compassion to every single person on earth like its free candy for there are a number of them that simply don't deserve any. Thats a good way to get taken advantage and end up a victim, friend.

Do you think I would show mercy to the worst kinds of people out there if I came face to face with them? Sorry I wouldn't.
I would show plenty of compassion to honest good people and families.
But the ones that would harm those, yea your damn right I wouldn't have mercy for them, and yes I would take satisfaction in destroying them. Satisfaction that their existence is wiped clean and they can no longer do harm to others, like yourself.

But if you think compassion should be shown to all of them, the ones that are responsible for these atrocities, then perhaps your a better person then me for I cannot just except any other solution that doesn't involve complete extermination.

reply to post by wulff


Oh and I forget to mention, pain is a great teacher.
If used in the proper application.