Pre-life memories?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Darkblade71
I know there have been recorded cases of people having past lives verified,
but dunno personally where to dig those up for you. If you wanted I am sure you could find some information.

Trust me, I do know where to "dig those up", because I've done a lot of reading on the subject, and so far as I know, there are no known cases of people having past lives verified, where the investigation process is the scientific method, and there is no opportunity for cultural contamination. Careful analysis of the most credible of claims invariably has shown investigator bias, poor evidence and/or instances of cultural contamination.

This is all due to the fact that not knowing about reincarnation keeps us safe from those that have so much spiritual debt that they would have to kill to get out of debt. if it were proven to be real then the world would fall into chaos if everyone had no value for this life.

reply to post by Darkblade71

Could be genetic memories....
I am open to that.

You mean genetic as in non spiritual? Just "genes"? Thats interesting.

I think though that I am referring to actual bygone people that lived long ago. You know, the "friends" we meet in dreams that are at once familiar and unknown? Hard to verify that kind of subjective experience. It is oft reported though. Meeting family members even while awake as spirit encounters too.

The other "interpretation" is one of well we don't know, but since the "memories" are in our heads, they must be ours.

Genetic, huh? Interesting...

reply to post by intrptr


I leave it all open as possible. I don't know, I just love to speculate on things. I suspect that genetic programming plays a role, but that in no way leaves out the spirit realm as we are weaved into a giant tapestry that is way bigger and far beyond my understanding. I just get little puzzle pieces that I have to put together for myself over the years.

reply to post by deadeyedick

There is only one spirit that channels and that is satan and he has many confused with his channeling.

I know, its oft preached in Churchdom that all manifestations of spirits are of the devil.

That is a middle ages belief brought to you by the same people that burned witches at the stake and thought the world was flat.

No disrespect intended but those old ideas are of the devil. You see how he wins with that? We aren't to heed any but material, worldly, ideas of men. And never you mind about spiritual matters. Thats pure evil.

Originally posted by Darkblade71
reply to post by intrptr

 

I leave it all open as possible. I don't know, I just love to speculate on things. I suspect that genetic programming plays a role, but that in no way leaves out the spirit realm as we are weaved into a giant tapestry that is way bigger and far beyond my understanding. I just get little puzzle pieces that I have to put together for myself over the years.

Its all good. The genome is still not fully understood. It may well be part of the spirit realm in some way we have yet to understand. Or a link to it, maybe. Like some believe in a third eye (pineal gland) as one link to the soul. Maybe there is anther in our very DNA?

Thats why I said interesting. I never thought of that before.

reply to post by intrptr


I do see. Look where most of us would be if the conversation we are having took place in a doctors office or a church. I remember a lot of spirits incarnating with a goal of defeating GOD. Giving a look of ha ha you will never win right before they descended into a body.

reply to post by intrptr


Indeed science is just us trying to reverse engineer GOD'S work. We will never get to where we need to be without uniting both body and spirit in accordance with others. Only then shall we reach the stars. The race is on for the crown.

One of the best spiritual tools i have remembered is to sleep on your back. You want to face those above you in order to travel and communicate. Everyone has a negative spirit who's job it is to keep you away from communication with the other side and if you sleep on your stomach then you are descending when you sleep instead of ascending. I have it so bad i have to use pillows in a v shape to keep me from rolling over right before i fall asleep. The same negative spirit also tries to keep you from trances and meditation by making you have too much saliva and making you want to toss and turn and itch. Everyone is raising a negative and positive spirit. Male and female.

Originally posted by swanne
reply to post by adjensen

 

I remember dying in a plane crash. Yet I'm not a new ager, I'm a hard-core atheist whose hobbies are physics and electrical engineering. And I met many good people on ATS who remember weird events which are not part of their life records neither.

So you would in fact be a deist, not an atheist..?

If not, —if atheist that is, therefore no belief subscription—, you would link/explain said plane crash with a more rational optic, not only psychological but also environmental at the time.

Originally posted by adjensen
I would dispute that statement -- I've never seen an example that cannot be explained by cultural contamination. So far as I can see, the only credible evidence would be someone who claimed to have lived a prior life in a foreign culture and demonstrated otherwise unexplained language competence (for example, an American, who claims to have had a prior life in China, and who can speak, read or write Chinese without any training.) I've never heard of such a case.

As to being able to speak foreign languages if recalling past lives in other cultures, it is the present mind which remembers, so the thoughts and perceptions are via the current thoughts.

For example, when I was young, I lived in another country where I spoke a foreign language and had no knowledge whatsoever of the English language. However, as I now think in English, all my recollections of my childhood are perceived in English thoughts.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by adjensen
I would dispute that statement -- I've never seen an example that cannot be explained by cultural contamination. So far as I can see, the only credible evidence would be someone who claimed to have lived a prior life in a foreign culture and demonstrated otherwise unexplained language competence (for example, an American, who claims to have had a prior life in China, and who can speak, read or write Chinese without any training.) I've never heard of such a case.

As to being able to speak foreign languages if recalling past lives in other cultures, it is the present mind which remembers, so the thoughts and perceptions are via the current thoughts.

That isn't the point.

If you lived a former life, speaking Chinese, and in this life, you speak English, if you can recall the events of your previous life, you should also be able to remember the language, as that was as ingrained as any event you could recall.

I posit this not as a negative, but as the only positive affirmation that I can think of -- if you want to say that such a phenomenon is impossible, then you're saying that no positive affirmation is possible.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
Many people now remember past lives. I am wondering if anyone has memories of before life only existing as a spirit and being able to look down a few feet onto human life. I have started to get visions of my pre-life and even knowledge of decisions that were being made by other spirits on what life would be best for them. There were certain cultures that were more popular for incarnating into and some were dreaded. Many were eing led by more powerful spirits to the dreaded places. Their were many spirits that had no spiritual debt that were taking a lot of the popular vessels and i heard they will be punished if they do not use it right.

I'm not sure about past lives.. but..

2 years ago .. I accurately described the road to my parents beach house and my oldest sister stating and I quote
" how could you know this.. you weren't born yet" .. after which you could hear a pin drop for 10miles..

reply to post by camaro68ss


Here's the story. As far as I can tell, he didn't forget about it. It just didn't bother him so badly after he came to terms with it.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Here's the story. As far as I can tell, he didn't forget about it. It just didn't bother him so badly after he came to terms with it.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

James Huston is a good example of a thoroughly debunked reincarnation tale:

Shot Down In Flames

and

Reincarnation all over again

reply to post by adjensen


There have been cases of people waking from coma's, or after a stroke, suddenly speaking another language fluently, but in those cases, from what I remember hearing of them, they are short lived. I remember hearing of one woman, from the southern part of America, suddenly started speaking with an English accent, that she couldn't shake, after having a stroke.

There are also cases of child prodigies, like Mozart, who seemed to already know about musical structure and how to play certain instruments. And of course, then there are savants.

reply to post by windword


If you can cite a well documented case of someone waking up from a coma fluently speaking a language that they've never had exposure to, I'd like to see it. Speaking with a known accent and people that are savants (though I think you mean "prodigies") obviously do not require reincarnation for an explanation. ETA: Oops, I see you listed both, I'm not much of a savant, eh? lol. Either way, they speak to a potential brain abnormality, not accumulated knowledge.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by windword

 

If you can cite a well documented case of someone waking up from a coma fluently speaking a language that they've never had exposure to, I'd like to see it.

I'll have to do some digging on that. I remember hearing about such cases on the news and in documentaries, I think..........

Speaking with a known accent and people that are savants (though I think you mean "prodigies")

Savants and and prodigies are two different animals. THIS SAVANT, for example, has an uncanny memory and an untrained, yet startling mechanical drawing talent. Perhaps it was carried over from another life.

Maybe Mozart was a savant, I don't know. But my father was a prodigy. He was playing violin at the age of three, and my grandfather had him studying with some famous violinist in Chicago. At twelve, he was 2nd seat in the Chicago Symphany. There are others. Perhaps his talent was a remnant of some past love.

obviously do not require reincarnation for an explanation.

Well you do, that is, you require an explanation, or proof, of past life memories. I'm not sure science has a pat answer for this phenomena. I'm also not sure proof exists that would reduce your skepticism.

Originally posted by adjensen

If you lived a former life, speaking Chinese, and in this life, you speak English, if you can recall the events of your previous life, you should also be able to remember the language, as that was as ingrained as any event you could recall.

I posit this not as a negative, but as the only positive affirmation that I can think of -- if you want to say that such a phenomenon is impossible, then you're saying that no positive affirmation is possible.

Most past-life recollections are just glimpses of those lives, much like a movie trailer gives hints about a movie's storyline. The recollection itself probably only lasts minutes, and only represents a snapshot in time of that previous life.

if you were a brain surgeon in a past life, it does not follow that you will instantly acquire the skills of a surgeon simply by recalling a few minutes of that life. The same goes for foreign languages.

There are other possibilities to affirm the validity of past life recollections. One example is if a unique item is witnessed in the recollection and this is recorded in detail. After some time such a unique item is discovered through archaeological digs in the area the past life was assumed to take place. This find would serve as verification of the accuracy of the vision, though it would not be a definitive proof of reincarnation. Further corroborating evidence would need to be found, and while this is less likely, it is not impossible.

reply to post by mysticnoon

if you were a brain surgeon in a past life, it does not follow that you will instantly acquire the skills of a surgeon simply by recalling a few minutes of that life. The same goes for foreign languages.

Indeed. When I was a kid, my mother taught me to sew on her, now antique, sewing machine. I loved sewing, and created all kinds of surf board covers and bell bottom creations from old pants! Now, approaching 60, I purchased a machine, thinking I could whip up some things to sell on Ebay, Etsy and at craft fairs.

Nope. I had to relearn how to sew a straight seam. My "new" creations looked like an 8th grade summer school project!

reply to post by windword

Perhaps his talent was a remnant of some past love.

Props to your Dad, but maybe he just had a talent and love of that instrument -- why the need to interject past lives?

You know me, I'm part and parcel with the doctrine of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (*) and believe that the simplest explanation is usual the right one. There is enough evidence that people like savants just have brains wired a little differently, and when you're talking about people waking up from comas or strokes behaving differently... hello... brain injury, not a big surprise that they'd act differently. I am extremely logical and dualistic -- but I also have autism and that's what I can point to for both of them, no need to believe that I was tutored in rhetoric in a past life.

(*) - Yes, I am aware of the conflict with my theism, but I have personally experienced sufficient extraordinary evidence to support it, so lol