To Vilify the Ego

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I would become less conscious of the fact that I need to eat and that I am starving to death. I become less conscious of my impending demise. You've essentially killed me.

I will have killed the part of you that knows itself as 'I'. Without the body, there is no you. There is just awareness. And please don't confuse the concept of awareness with actual awareness. I want to avoid further misunderstandings.

reply to post by HarryTZ


If you kill the 'I' of her, you kill her, period. There would be no 'her', only a husk.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


That is correct.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
I will have killed the part of you that knows itself as 'I'. Without the body, there is no you. There is just awareness. And please don't confuse the concept of awareness with actual awareness. I want to avoid further misunderstandings.

Then the mind ceases to exist with the demise of the body?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

To Vilify the Ego

We wear it on our clothing; it’s tattooed on our skin; it’s in the conduct of our interaction; it seeps into every word and utterance; the Ego is virtually unavoidable in day to day life.

Of course—as is common—there is no such entity; there is no such component actually existing within ourselves we can call the Ego.

Just another point of view,

Not sure what your definition of "The Ego" is, but to me the "Ego" is your individualized consciousness, during the phase were it is separate from "The One" or the universe.

You called it the "I", but do you know what "I" means?

This is a quote but it illustrates it perfectly. "the I is the thinker of the thought, the doer of the deed". Basically you are inseparable from the "I", the "I" is you. There is such an entity, you are the entity, and one name for it is the Ego.

The "I" is separate to all your characteristics, moods, emotions, thoughts, etc.

Your I stays the same while everything around you changes, and if you use your will properly you can control your thoughts, which in turn allows you to control your mental makeup.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
Then the mind ceases to exist with the demise of the body?

edit on 21-5-2013 by mysticnoon because: (no reason given)

Seeing as the mind has its basis in the brain, I would assume so, yes.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by dominicus

 

But without the ego, I am nothing because there is nothing to be aware of. I am empty space surrounded by everything.

The real you is inherently without ego. In deep sleep, before you took up a body, and after the body dies, you will remain without ego.

Without the ego there is everything and it is One

Originally posted by dominicus

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by dominicus

 

But without the ego, I am nothing because there is nothing to be aware of. I am empty space surrounded by everything.

The real you is inherently without ego. In deep sleep, before you took up a body, and after the body dies, you will remain without ego.

And you know this how?

Without the ego there is everything and it is One

Yet another claim without any substantive evidence or reasoning.

If it is your belief or opinion, I accept it as such, but a belief or personal conviction is not necessarily commensurate with reality as it is.

reply to post by mysticnoon


You are very intelligent to question our claims. Only an idiot would believe anything without question.

reply to post by mysticnoon

And you know this how?

Systematically approaching the inner realms through self observation of various sorts, intensely over the last 14 years. Anyone can do this and they will find the same things I say to be true.

Yet another claim without any substantive evidence or reasoning.

A few folks throughout antiquity, actually extremely famous names(which is niether here nor there) and verious name's that flew under the historical radar, have said if you go with in, and observe yourself, you will eventually come across the Source of Consciousness.

.....and most importantly .....to NOT take their word for it, but to see for myself. So I spent a decade going within, all belief with held, and directly experienced exactly what others have said, and what I have now said as well, and now tell you as well. If you want, you can see that this is THIS way for yourself.

If it is your belief or opinion

I don't care about beliefs(which are illusions) or opinions(which are relative). What I speak of, exists prior to and transcends all beliefs and opinions.

I accept it as such, but a belief or personal conviction is not necessarily commensurate with reality as it is.

Ditto: I don't care about beliefs(which are illusions) or opinions(which are relative). What I speak of, exists prior to and transcends all beliefs and opinions.

You can go see for yourself that this is all true.

Other wise if you don't go and see, then you are a window shopping speculator with nothing but assumptions to hand out.

Originally posted by dominicus
Systematically approaching the inner realms through self observation of various sorts, intensely over the last 14 years. Anyone can do this and they will find the same things I say to be true.

This is also the central tenet of mystic practice, that one realizes these things for oneself, within oneself. I agree fully with this approach.

Nevertheless, I am also acutely aware of the great difficulty of detaching from ego, and then going beyond mind to realize what is the true self. It would truly surprise me to find anyone posting on ATS who has attained this state of consciousness.

A few folks throughout antiquity, actually extremely famous names(which is niether here nor there) and verious name's that flew under the historical radar, have said if you go with in, and observe yourself, you will eventually come across the Source of Consciousness.

I understand this, as you will see that I also quote great mystics and sages from the past. (My signature is one example).

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by mysticnoon

 

You are very intelligent to question our claims. Only an idiot would believe anything without question.

My questioning your claims really does not differ from an atheist's questioning, and previously you called atheists stupid.

I do not think that one's belief system or Weltanschauung correlates with intelligence or "stupidity", but you seem convinced that there is a connection. Is there a sound reason for this demarcation?

Originally posted by mysticnoon

My questioning your claims really does not differ from an atheist's questioning, and previously you called atheists stupid.

I do not think that one's belief system or Weltanschauung correlates with intelligence or "stupidity", but you seem convinced that there is a connection. Is there a sound reason for this demarcation?

Questioning is always intelligent, but atheist beliefs are absolutely idiotic. Actually, any belief is stupid. Do your dogmatics bring you any closer to what is actually true? No, they just show ones ignorance. It has nothing to do with 'knowledge' in the sense you are used to. Intelligence is the ability to perceive truth. Don't waste your time believing, seek to know instead.

The more I did not want to become associated with the ego the more I saw that I didn't want to become associated with it.

That is interesting how it can be a flip side. I don't know why the ego would want to be false. I can understand how hard reality really is to understand because you can have to results that are the same but they're means are completely different.

So the steps I guess to take in order to get away from my ego is to calm down. But if you can picture working to meditate, I can see why people don't that much because it is like a hidden route of doing nothing. So many paradoxes - you are doing nothing but you are also doing something even more important than thinking at the same time.

Originally posted by MySkinsWhite

Just another point of view,

Not sure what your definition of "The Ego" is, but to me the "Ego" is your individualized consciousness, during the phase were it is separate from "The One" or the universe.

You called it the "I", but do you know what "I" means?

This is a quote but it illustrates it perfectly. "the I is the thinker of the thought, the doer of the deed". Basically you are inseparable from the "I", the "I" is you. There is such an entity, you are the entity, and one name for it is the Ego.

The "I" is separate to all your characteristics, moods, emotions, thoughts, etc.

Your I stays the same while everything around you changes, and if you use your will properly you can control your thoughts, which in turn allows you to control your mental makeup.

This is my understanding of the ego too.

But from previous discussions, I have gathered that many people consider this as something "higher" than the ego and separate from it. That the ego is something else, like the identification with specific characteristics, drives, emotions, or states. LIke instead of experiencing anger, or "feeling angry", the ego perceives "I am anger" and through that identification, gets "stuck" in states of experience, or feel powerless to change experiences. At least that is the best I have been able to comprehend from the crowd which sees ego as something negative.

But I've spent too much time in the past in such discussions, and am not sure they were very fruitful as far as my comprehension of others' views go.

(.....why can't I star your post??)

reply to post by HarryTZ

I will have killed the part of you that knows itself as 'I'. Without the body, there is no you. There is just awareness.

Where? If there is only this "awareness", then where is it? Where does it come from?

Do you see everyone as merely bodies? It seems your beliefs have taken the value out of everything else and put it on your own mind, where your thoughts about awareness have arisen from. It seems you are quite comfortable in this solipsism.

And please don't confuse the concept of awareness with actual awareness. I want to avoid further misunderstandings.

Then please a different word. I'm not going to start using the word chicken to describe a pterodactyl.

Questioning is always intelligent, but atheist beliefs are absolutely idiotic. Actually, any belief is stupid. Do your dogmatics bring you any closer to what is actually true? No, they just show ones ignorance. It has nothing to do with 'knowledge' in the sense you are used to. Intelligence is the ability to perceive truth. Don't waste your time believing, seek to know instead.

You say not to believe anything but then use a yogi to speak for you and complete your thoughts. Is believing only stupid when others do it?

reply to post by mysticnoon

This is also the central tenet of mystic practice, that one realizes these things for oneself, within oneself. I agree fully with this approach.

Good, thus far we are in agreement

Nevertheless, I am also acutely aware of the great difficulty of detaching from ego

that's the paradox!!! It's the ego/mind/not you complex that has "projected" an idea that something like this is "of great difficulty".

It's not. You already are That Awareness prior to ego/mind. All that's left is observing and being aware that everything you are aware of, is not you...not that Awareness. In due time, pure clarity ensues.

and then going beyond mind to realize what is the true self.

You already are That, just need a slight nudge, shift, seeing, turning around to see it.

It would truly surprise me to find anyone posting on ATS who has attained this state of consciousness.

I've found quite a few ATS members living with this state of consciousness (to varying to degrees) who post on here. It truly surprise me to NOT find anyone posting on ATS who is self realized. I've met floor sweepers and house painters, who go about their daily jobs (i.e. chop wood, carry water), while completely Engulfed in Enlightened states
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Where? If there is only this "awareness", then where is it?

It is with you, and it is you. It is the part of you that is aware that the mind/ego is thinking, that the eye's see, that the ears hear, that the senses sense. Explore it for yourself.

Do you see everyone as merely bodies?

I see everyone as pure awareness and Love unconditionally with empathy, I see that ego & Ignorance, through wordly programming has hijacked true identity. Then there are deeper states where there is No me anywhere to be found, and everything is One thing, Absolute Consciousness everywhere. It fluctuates.

It seems your beliefs have taken the value out of everything else and put it on your own mind, where your thoughts about awareness have arisen from. It seems you are quite comfortable in this solipsism.

I know you're referencing Harry TZ and I can't speak for him. But to address this from my POV, I'm speaking from direct experience and can hand you about a thousand books that also reference these experiences.

As far as "purpose", it's relative to the Individual and to "thought", however there does seem to be some Grand Purpose which is right now beyond the ability for me to comprehend.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Where? If there is only this "awareness", then where is it? Where does it come from?

It is non-local. It is everywhere. Your question of 'where' is not being asked in the right context because 'location' is irrelevant. If you asked me, 'where is your computer monitor located?', I would reply, 'two feet in front of my face'. There is no way I can answer your question absolutely. If I placed my monitor inside an infinite field of nothingness and you asked me the same question, how would I answer it? I would not be able to.

Do you see everyone as merely bodies? It seems your beliefs have taken the value out of everything else and put it on your own mind, where your thoughts about awareness have arisen from. It seems you are quite comfortable in this solipsism.

In a way, solipsism is a truth. I am the entirety of the infinite field of consciousness. You can't 'break' this field into 'smaller pieces' because it is non-local. We are the same consciousness, having different experiences. So yes, 'my' awareness is the only one that exists. And so is 'yours'. But do you see the problem with possessive nouns? What is mine, is yours, and yours, mine, because there is no 'you' and 'me'. The ego is what has you believe otherwise.

Then please a different word. I'm not going to start using the word chicken to describe a pterodactyl.

We are trying to speak of the unspeakable. We are trying to use words to explain the wordless. I am forced to use abstractions such as 'consciousness' and 'awareness', but you must not confuse these with a particular phenomena. Consciousness is the lack of all phenomena.

You say not to believe anything but then use a yogi to speak for you and complete your thoughts. Is believing only stupid when others do it?

The words of others can only bring one so far... it is their responsibility to make the final breakthrough into truth, into their heart.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Where? If there is only this "awareness", then where is it? Where does it come from?

That is fundamentally no different than asking questions like these:

Where is everything? Where is all space? Or where is That in which everything arises and is a modification of?

Such questions have no answer that will satisfy the mind in its need to objectify, know, and contain anything and everything.

reply to post by bb23108


Exactly correct. Nothing is objective and can never be objective, because the very definition of nothing is subjectivity. You cannot observe nothing, you are all of nothing.