Police mourn homeless drunk they considered a friend

Here was a man who was homeless and a drunk who touched the lives of many in a positive way, even the police who were constantly arresting him. I wish I had the opportunity to meet Alvin before he passed. He had a hard life, lived on the streets, drank himself silly every day.

SASKATOON - He was one of the most recognizable residents in Saskatoon and some people consider the Prairie city a little different now that he's gone. Alvin Cote wasn't a well-known politician, businessman or hockey player, but a ragged, homeless alcoholic whose tough talk would easily melt into a hearty chuckle and a big smile short on teeth. He spent that past couple of decades living in Saskatoon. He could be seen curled up on floor of a bank foyer, sleeping on park benches or reading worn copies of National Geographic in the drunk tank. He died April 19, a few days shy of his 60th birthday. Saskatoon police officers are still talking about his death, even though they considered it an inevitable fate. It's believed Cote had been arrested more times for public drunkenness than anyone else in the city's history. Some officers put the tally at close to 1,000.

www.winnipegfreepress.com... ntKey:f069d53c-ffdb-4984-80c0-c150adee78b7


Click on link for the rest of article. Well worth the read.

Thank you for this post. It was a wonderful relief from the usual doom/gloom across the internet these days. I have always only read on this forum. Today, I made a special effort to reply because my heart told me to. I have a very special spot down deep for homeless people and I commend the police and the community for the care and time they put forth for Alvin. That too, was a surprising gift to me today. Again, I thank you.
ann

reply to post by TFCJay


To me this story is really sad...people gave him a few dollars here and there and feed him now and then; and the Police would check up on him as he slept outside somewhere; but I think the people in his city should have done more.

Why wasn't he put in a treatment center? Why wasn't he given a home by someone who had extra money and could have paid for his rent? Why didn't they do more?

From what the article says...he had a sister who has a home; why didn't she take him in and feed him and give him a bed every night so at least he would have had somewhere to be; a little bit of security; a place to shower and have clean clothes; then maybe he would have chosen to get better.

It is nice to hear a story about something other than school shootings and random act of violence.

I have known many people in my life who were raggedy homeless drunks at first glance, but interesting to talk to if you could get past their obvious distasteful appearance and lifestyle.

Art the window washer was one of those guys like that, I knew him when I was in my late teens and early twenties. He made State Street in Madison Wisconsin his stomping ground for many years, washing windows of business along the street.

Sometimes he would disappear for a few months and word would get on the street that he was in jail for peeing behind a dumpster or getting too drunk and passing out on the sidewalk...But he was a fixture on state street for several years, and I always enjoyed talking to him when I had the time.

One day I found out that he died of exposure while sleeping on a step along State street during the wintertime.
State street has never been the same since then.

I miss Art.Art Nessen

reply to post by caladonea

Why wasn't he put in a treatment center?

Because he did not want to go to a treatment center. Because its a free country and he is allowed to live his life however he chooses, even if you find it sad. Because he would have probably told the treatment counselor to (imperative expletive) and walked out right out the door, down the street to the liquor store, and bought a bottle of night train. Convincing an addict to enter counseling is almost impossible. It won't work unless they choose to do it, and some will never get there.

Why wasn't he given a home by someone who had extra money and could have paid for his rent? Why didn't they do more?

How many homeless addicts are you sheltering in your house right now? That's why.

Originally posted by Slugworth
reply to post by caladonea

 

How many homeless addicts are you sheltering in your house right now? That's why.

In the past when I was younger and was living in a different place and had more money; I on my own saved people off the streets; I would give them a place to sleep; food; clean clothes a shower and directions for them to get help with their issues and also get help for permanent housing.

Now...I live in an apartment building...which has very strict rules...however I still help the homeless...I volunteer and feed them twice a week through my own efforts.

What do you do?

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by TFCJay

 

To me this story is really sad...people gave him a few dollars here and there and feed him now and then; and the Police would check up on him as he slept outside somewhere; but I think the people in his city should have done more.

Why wasn't he put in a treatment center? Why wasn't he given a home by someone who had extra money and could have paid for his rent? Why didn't they do more?

From what the article says...he had a sister who has a home; why didn't she take him in and feed him and give him a bed every night so at least he would have had somewhere to be; a little bit of security; a place to shower and have clean clothes; then maybe he would have chosen to get better.

Do you know any folks who are homeless?

While I am not running around with homeless people, I have known several, and occasioned a lengthy chat with quite a few as well.

Not many homeless folks that really want much better. It is a dynamic group, like any other. So there is no "one size fits all" for them. But on the whole, you can basically sum it up with, "Everyone makes their decisions, and often become unwitting victims of themselves...their own worst enemy".

Of course, many are mentally ill.

But the point is, things like treatment centers are there, whether you force someone into it or not. The gentleman didn't prefer to do that, for whatever reason he had.

Obviously there are some homeless folks who are victims of bad fortune (including mental health). But if you are talking about someone who seems reasonably sentient, there is no reason to assume that they need anyones help. Let alone that they would accept it.

reply to post by caladonea

What do you do?

I certainly don't presume to "save" people from themselves, because I would never pretend to know what is best for others just because I have more money, education, or property than them. If a guy wants to get drunk on a park bench it isn't my place to tell him to stop.

If someone asked for my help I would help them, but that is quite different from telling them what to do.

reply to post by caladonea

I on my own saved people off the streets

I just realized two things about this statement:

1. You talk about them like they are stray dogs who need a home.
2. You actually say you did it "on your own", as if they deserve no credit for any improvements that they made.

Originally posted by caladonea

Originally posted by Slugworth
reply to post by caladonea

 

How many homeless addicts are you sheltering in your house right now? That's why.

In the past when I was younger and was living in a different place and had more money; I on my own saved people off the streets; I would give them a place to sleep; food; clean clothes a shower and directions for them to get help with their issues and also get help for permanent housing.

Now...I live in an apartment building...which has very strict rules...however I still help the homeless...I volunteer and feed them twice a week through my own efforts.

What do you do?

I am likely going to regret getting into this. It seems as though you feel you do a lot of good, and it gives you boost in ego from it. Which is fine, I suppose. But to think that everyone else shares your passion is just silly.

So when you look at what you have done, it would seem that no one can argue the effort you put in and the desire you have to help. But what you have to then ask yourself is, 'How effective has my work been"?

I have worked closely with homeless populations in my lifetime as well, both on the mental health side as well as the religious groups providing things that you mentioned. Out of the literally hundreds or thousands of homeless folks I intereacted with, I cannot point to a single positive outcome. Basically we just worked to keep them warm, clothed, and fed while they continued doing what they did. In essence, charity subsidized their maladaptive behaviors.

Have you found different results? How do you quantify those results? Because one thing to keep in mind: if you are helping other people without ensuring it is effective, all you are really doing is making yourself feel better, not them.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
[


I am likely going to regret getting into this. It seems as though you feel you do a lot of good, and it gives you boost in ego from it. Which is fine, I suppose. But to think that everyone else shares your passion is just silly.


Have you found different results? How do you quantify those results? Because one thing to keep in mind: if you are helping other people without ensuring it is effective, all you are really doing is making yourself feel better, not them.

edit on 11-5-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

I have tried to help...not to boost my ego at all (and by the way you don't personally know me). I care...it is that simple. I do no think everyone shares my passion about this; that is in your head...not mine.

I think anyone... that helps anyone... in any way... is effective; at least in that moment. Seriously...I don't try and help to make myself feel better; I have been homeless before and I know what it is like.

With you I am done.

Originally posted by Slugworth


If someone asked for my help I would help them, but that is quite different from telling them what to do.

edit on 5/11/2013 by Slugworth because: typo

I am glad you would help.

Originally posted by Slugworth
reply to post by caladonea

 

I on my own saved people off the streets

I just realized two things about this statement:

1. You talk about them like they are stray dogs who need a home.
2. You actually say you did it "on your own", as if they deserve no credit for any improvements that they made.

I do not talk about homeless people (as if they are stray dogs) that is in your head; not mine. I look at them has people who are in need; and when I could help I did. I don't think of myself as someone who (deserves credit); that is in your head not mine; I just wanted to help...that is all...and I stated what I have done; not for applause but to make a point.

With you I am done.

reply to post by caladonea


so in working with the homeless, you should know that some choose to live that way, and it is mostly the peaceful good bums that do. Im guessing that even if someone reached out like you proposed, he would be out on the streets doing it all over again as soon as he could.

I used to volunteer feeding homeless for about a year maybe so i got to meet alot(there are many were i am from) but before that my relationship with bums is an old one.

When we were kids(teenagers) it was up to me to collect the cash and procure the booze. Bums were the anwser, in dealing with bums i started to understand that they are usally more interesting and always had a story to tell, then i turned 21 and could procure my own booze, walking home or down to the store when a bum would ask for cash, i would ask him what for, in order to open conversation, remembering that bums are interesting people and usally pretty smart.

If he lied to me and said food, i might give him some change if he looked sick or weak. But if he told the truth and said booze then i would give him a couple bucks. It really bothered me when these bums probably ate better than i did and tried to pretend they were so hungry, but i do know how refreshing a beer can be, when you have nothing else going for you.

But either way i would take time out of my day just to talk to these guys hear there stories and see them next time, In doing this ive been able to weed out the "bad bums" from the "good bums" and instead of just giving them money i give them a conversation in which we both usually benefit. I learned how to make a still out of basic throw away appliances the other day, ive heard funny stories, and a lot of stories i can relate to

oh dont worry about the trolls on this thread, there just trying to get in your head

reply to post by caladonea


You have made sure you mentioned that you do it a lot. You then laid down the challenge to others to justify what THEY have done. It is a matter of pride, which is a buttress for ego. Parse it how you will....it is what it is.

I have no issue admitting that I do the same. Or that when I love another person, it is as much a selfish act as it is a selfless act. Loving someone....that feels good. It brings me pleasure. Sure, it may make them happy as well to have my concern/attention. I am sure my wife and sons feel that way. But if it didnt feel good to give them my love, I doubt I would do it. It is why I dont feel the same way about strangers as I do my mother.

If I cut through all the BS....it pretty much boils down to this: people do what benefits them, even if that means benefitting others. All the things I do for people....i do it because it brings me pleasure. It is about me. They are just lucky benefactors.

You can be done with me all you want. That is fine. However, it will not change the simple truth that your participation in this thread has involved no shortage of self righteous comments. Beginning with asking another member what they do for homeless people, and criticising the individuals in the article for not filling in in a way you would approve of. If you admit that you are passionate about this, then you also must acknowledge that not everyone else shares your passion. In particular, those of us in the crowd that believes in things like personal accountability, and individual freedoms.

RE: your effectiveness: I am a business man. Empericism and quantification is what I believe in. Not a gut feeling. When all someone has is a gut feeling, it typically indicates that very little thought has been given to measuring effectiveness. I mean, if your goal is simply to provide some moral support and compassion, that is perfectly fine. It is a noble goal. And I would suspect that your effectiveness would be fairly high. But if the goal is to effect real change, to drive an impact that is a catalyst for true improvement in standards of living....you really have to measure it. I didn't ask that question of you sarcastically. I asked it more to see what the answer was. To give me an idea of the scope of what you are doing. It was an honest question.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by TFCJay

 

Why wasn't he given a home by someone who had extra money and could have paid for his rent? Why didn't they do more?

Because people have forgot how to care for each other and have become greedy. Its a sad way we go...hope mans current path changes soon.

reply to post by Annaz



Been a member since 2005 and this was your second post, and a lovely post at that.

To the OP, thanks for sharing this story because as much as some of us dislike the police, and rightfully so, its always better to see the human side of them, much like the NYPD officer who bought a homeless man boots over the winter.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by TFCJay

 

To me this story is really sad...people gave him a few dollars here and there and feed him now and then; and the Police would check up on him as he slept outside somewhere; but I think the people in his city should have done more.

Why wasn't he put in a treatment center? Why wasn't he given a home by someone who had extra money and could have paid for his rent? Why didn't they do more?

From what the article says...he had a sister who has a home; why didn't she take him in and feed him and give him a bed every night so at least he would have had somewhere to be; a little bit of security; a place to shower and have clean clothes; then maybe he would have chosen to get better.

Because you cant help somebody if they are not willing to help themselves!

Rest In Peace Alvin. May you have all the comfort you need now and may you guide the rest of us in Spirit.

Much Peace...

The world is small at times, yes?
We knew this man, through some employment, and the occasional stop downtown.

Didn't know his name, but some give off an 'energy' or 'vibes'. His was of a gentle spirit. A spirit toughened by decades of the results of his choices.

At least in convos with him and those of his ilk, you knew you were talking real.

A lot of the police know and care about the folk on the street. Saw it a lot.

This gentleman was one of Saskatoon's finest - he had just never been told so.
Thank you for honouring the memory of him. A treat indeed.

... and he did appear on all counts, anyway - to be comfortable in his homelessness - the streets appeared to be his home... I believe he just wanted our respect when passing by him in his ginormous 'living room'...