Okay, so the SHTF, and the Raiders come, so now what?

For most preppers, the answer is simply "we'll gun them down to the last man"....

However, I have to feel that eventually, this will not be a practical solution. For one thing, they may have more firepower and manpower.

So, what do you do?

One idea is to broker a deal. If you produce something they need, you could offer tribute or trade for things they may procure on their raids. For example, if you make food, they'd do better dealing for a long term supply vs. a one-hit gathering. Another example is growing/treating tobacco and making your own booze. The raiders aren't going to want to do the toil to keep in supply of these things, but you could use them to purchase not only immunity from the raids, but also trade for things that will need to be scavenged, like medicines, and other less home-grown items.

This way, the raiders take all the risk in getting such items.

If you have a medically trained person, and some good medical supplies, providing this service could also be something more valuable than just raiding you.

Sure, you're dealing with the devil...but if the alternative is having your loved ones raped and killed...well...

Anyhow, just a thought, and something that should at least be considered in your prep plans. Rambo doesn't exist, and there may be a time when such a force (in a SHTF scenario) could pose such a threat to all your well-laid plans.

Rambo may not exist, but that doesn't mean you should give up on a good defensive plan. With some forethought and planning it is not difficult to design a position that is impervious to any weapon system that raiders are likely to be toting around. The key is to make the cost of conquest too high.

Originally posted by Doc Gator
Rambo may not exist, but that doesn't mean you should give up on a good defensive plan. With some forethought and planning it is not difficult to design a position that is impervious to any weapon system that raiders are likely to be toting around. The key is to make the cost of conquest too high.

I have yet so see any defensive position that can resist smoke and fire unless its a concrete bunker with its own air supply.

As for the OP it reminds me of the Costner movie "Postman" and is pretty sound advice if you actually plant roots somewhere and the roaming dominant group finds you.

However, I doubt they are going to leave the women alone regardless but at least everyone should live to see another day.

reply to post by Hopechest


There are lots of fire proof building materials, and even more fire proof coverings. If you design in good stand offs, this is much less of an issue.

Originally posted by Doc Gator
reply to post by Hopechest

 

There are lots of fire proof building materials, and even more fire proof coverings. If you design in good stand offs, this is much less of an issue.

Good point but going a bit off topic so I'll pass on continuing that line of discussion.

With all due respect of course.

The idea of establishing a trade for a needed good, provided it is produced on-premises, requiring specialized knowledge ans equipment, is also a good defensive position. The best one of them all is, BEER, WINE, or hard LIQUOR.

If you know how to brew and distill, you are valuable, and not worth killing.

Leaving the women alone would be part of the deal (unless they WANT to entertain...up to them), otherwise, the fallback is the old last man idea.... Better to die fighting than live a slave and all that. I can think of a couple gals in my group that would likely be more accommodating (and maybe even profit from the "entertainment", ) Again though, that is up to them to decide.

I agree about a good defense, and I do plan a good defensive position, but you also have to consider the possibility of a large enough force requiring a different approach. NO position is impregnable, though I will certainly take steps to make it as defensible as possible.

From making concrete block pill boxes and their locations, to anti-vehicle posts in front of fences, etc., I've come up with many defensive ideas to put in place (after a SHTF scenario, so just having the materials stored to do it). Obviously, putting them in now would look pretty silly. The only current visible defenses are at least two fences needed to get through to get to the house (in some cases 3, depending on approach), and a lot of open ground from the perimeter to the house (so a lot of area for us to snipe intruders).

But, If a well-armed group of 80 men show up, I'm not fool enough to think my band of a dozen or so folks is going to fare well against them. So, a different strategy will be required.

If a real SHTF event does occur, I'd prefer to be (once located) a kind of trading center, with well-armed friends we keep supplied in exchange for access to other goods. An EMT is in our group, and she'll train others. We'll add to our gardening area and grow more food and grow tobacco, and we'll work on our own booze, etc. With these services, we should prove more of a long-term asset than a one-shot raid target, or at least, that would be the hope. If they aren't good with the terms....then we'll have to see what happens the hard way.

reply to post by Krakatoa


True, that does make you more valuable, but you are still dancing with the devil and you are not in a position to call the tune.

Tough call there, You better know really quick how many people your dealing with, what is there range from you, fire power versus your firepower, and what do you have to gain from this, nothing then either fight, or slip silently into the night. If you have skills or items of trade, and dont want to fight, then trading is your best bet, just depends on your overall situation. Must be able to aquire as much intel as possible in the first few moments you have to either prepare for a fight, decide to trade and barter or disappear quickly. I would most likely decide to disappear because I have a family, I wouldnt have all my stuff in one location so losing a bit is better than losing a family member. fighting would just cause more attention to your location, unless its a last resort, then they will be eating lead. and a lot of it. LOL

reply to post by Gazrok


Doesnt sound any different from the current "tithe or jail" scam the US is running.

Never pay up. You give inmate Jim your pudding on day one and you'll have to give it to him everyday until you finally decide to stand your ground.

Of course a number of factors come into play. Most importantly are these guys locals or just passing through? If they're on their way to some other coast then by all means pay them off. If they're locals then you're stuck and will be under a join or die (not in a good way) trap and may as well make your stand unless you're willing to relocate.

Originally posted by Doc Gator
reply to post by Krakatoa

 

True, that does make you more valuable, but you are still dancing with the devil and you are not in a position to call the tune.

You are right, but you now become the dealer of a habitually addictive product. An addict will move heaven and earth to get their next fix. And, alcohol is one of the oldest of these substances, and easiest to make (if you know how and have the equipment).

Since there all bigger than me I guess I'd try to make a deal with them to see if I could join them and if they could make use of my talents and smarts in exchange for me depending on their size, strength and prior teamwork experience for our mutual survival.

In the meantime, I'm sure they'd have lots of cool old football stories to tell me.

Your going to have to hide your women either way. Whats going to stop them, kindness?

reply to post by Gazrok


That sounds like a well balanced plan. As you have suggested, controlling the approaches is critical. If you get that right, you are 95% secure.

I also like the idea of a trading center, but the military part of me cringes at the thought of letting potential enemies inside my "walls".

reply to post by Gazrok


Your plan sounds to me like you are laying the foundation for the next feudal system, willingly assigning yourself the role of the peasant who has to pay a tenth of his harvest to the highborn folks and in return they don't chop your head off.

I guess i have the upper hand in my situation. I live on a hill, with a 360 degree view of my surroundings. I would have 2 people on my roof one in either direction. I could possible deter a big force, with a just a few bullets fired. Snipers are the most feared weapon on the battlefeild for the common foot soldier. only problem is im giving my location away. better be a really bad SHTF type scenario for me to do all of that. But I have thought about it, and do have the weapons to achieve. to conquer the high ground is very hard, and only done with either well placed mortor attacks, air to ground, or totally over run the position

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


No doubt, it would all depend on many factors. I'm a decent fighter, for example, but being one of a minority of "honkies" in a wrong side of town high school, it was pretty easy to "buy" some protection by simply getting two extra orders of fries each day at lunch, and giving them to two big "goons" who actually, eventually, became like buddies.

Being the wrong color (white) here didn't pose any difficulties to me, as these guys had my back, and for a pittance. Of course, I generally tried to be a fairly pleasant guy too, and I never had any issues there, even though we did have several racial tension incidents at the school. While I am fairly colorblind (in all senses of the word), I was aware of the situation at the school for example. Many years ago, of course.

This SHTF solution is really not all that different from getting the extra fries in high school. While capable, why risk my own skin when others can do it for me?

reply to post by Doc Gator

I also like the idea of a trading center, but the military part of me cringes at the thought of letting potential enemies inside my "walls".

Would have to be a limited number in at a time, of course. (and disarmed)

reply to post by H1ght3chHippie

Your plan sounds to me like you are laying the foundation for the next feudal system, willingly assigning yourself the role of the peasant who has to pay a tenth of his harvest to the highborn folks and in return they don't chop your head off.

Or lord of the manor and town, especially if that trade allows me to "hire" more muscle of my own.

reply to post by Glassbender777

I guess i have the upper hand in my situation. I live on a hill, with a 360 degree view of my surroundings. I would have 2 people on my roof one in either direction. I could possible deter a big force, with a just a few bullets fired. Snipers are the most feared weapon on the battlefeild for the common foot soldier. only problem is im giving my location away. better be a really bad SHTF type scenario for me to do all of that. But I have thought about it, and do have the weapons to achieve. to conquer the high ground is very hard, and only done with either well placed mortor attacks, air to ground, or totally over run the position

We are on flat ground here, no hill, but still a 360 degree view, and a good deal of open ground around the house. In addition to the concrete-filled cinder block pill boxes I'll put up after a SHTF event at key points, I plan to put some other sniper positions on the house and other key buildings of the ranch after such an event (for high ground positions). The materials are stored, so wouldn't take long to put them in place. Plenty of other defenses in mind also, especially as we have some ex-military (Army and Marines) members in our group.

Unless the force is overwhelming, we'll definitely be in a position of strength against your average roving band, I'd think, but there is always the chance of one that is larger and more organized, and I'd rather have even a tentative plan, than "wing it".....

reply to post by Gazrok


Mostly I think fighting should be your last option as what you really want to do is survive. The best stocked shelter in the world is just another coffin to a corpse.

reply to post by iforget


Agreed, especially in the absence of modern medical facilities.

However, in this kind of SHTF landscape, you'd have to exhibit a certain level of defensive capability to treat with strangers from a position of strength.

Oddly enough, one of the risks I thought of was the first contact. I wouldn't want to walk out to such a group, just to be shot. So, how to communicate? One idea was putting one of our short range radios onto a toy remote-controlled car, and driving it out to them. Workable, at least. Would much rather risk losing a radio than a life.

Everyone in our group has their specialty. Mine is an obsession for planning and out of the box solutions to problem-solving, in addition to being kind of a jack-of-all-trades sort of guy.