Mysterious Cave Complexes discovered in China.

reply to post by Indigo5

I looked at the pictures you linked to. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the Buddha image shows signs of Greek influence, which means it was carved later than the fourth century BC. Probably a good deal later. Of course, it doesn't mean the rest of the cave system housing it are equally recent.

The carving of the cave walls is well within the capabilities of manual craftsmanship. No machine tools required.

Im blown away,that whoever built these, knew that Arched ceilings are much stronger, and that the inner ceilings need to be supported with columns. Either this points to these caves not being Old, or they are very Old, and we derive our Architecture and engineering from past civilizations that were on another level of understanding

These are pretty amazing. Especially the no sound echo characteristic. If they are very old, and not built during one of the world wars, then I would think they must date back to whatever civilization that seemed to be 'master stone carvers'. This would be awful hard to do using basic tools. And again, the no echo part wouldn't seem to be from a primitive civilization. The world keeps producing these anomalies that just don't fit the standard theory of human history taught in schools to this day.

Wow, thats some very impressive work. Everything is so nicely levelled and decorated.

From what I've read, they think it was built between 500 BCE and 500 CE. Just shows you how advanced the middle kingdom really was.

Wow!!!

That is awesome, great find. x10

It made me instantly think of the Fremen on Arrakis (sp?) from the Dune stories by Frank Herbert.
Thanks for the links and information. Those drawings seem to be just like ones found all over the planet. Hmmmm....

reply to post by Astyanax



The weird thing is it's not Buddhist it's Taoist, that's Lao Tzu there on the donkey in the clouds with the Immortals, carved in the manner of Grecian raised relief.


















I'd agree the style does look similar to Greco-Buddhist sculpting, but Greco-Taoist is unheard of, one can only guess that they were influenced by examples of the former they had seen.

Greco-Buddhism, sometimes spelled Graeco-Buddhism, refers to the cultural syncretism between Hellenistic culture and Buddhism, which developed between the 4th century BCE and the 5th century CE in the Indian sub-continent, especially in modern Afghanistan, Pakistan and north-western border regions of modern India. It was a cultural consequence of a long chain of interactions begun by Greek forays into India from the time of Alexander the Great, carried further by the establishment of Indo-Greek rule in the area for some centuries

The influence extended over a considerable period, but to find examples within China in a Taoist context is really surprising...as is the statue being of a woman.

In terms of Ceremonial Taoism, we find a pantheon that is huge, and that includes many important female Gods. Two notable examples are Xiwangmu (Queen of the Immortals) and Shengmu Yuanjun (Mother of the Tao). Similar to the Hindu tradition, then, Ceremonial Taoism offers the possibility of seeing our Divinity represented in female as well as in male forms.

taoism.about.com...


A Queen of the Immortals no less.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


awesome post, as usual

impressive for prehistoric work [as the paintings not the statuary which is of a later date,inclines me]

I agree this was the work Of Ancient Taoists
all those lines/striations everywhere are to direct the flow of Chi, no doubt

would make an awesome set for a martial arts movie in the style of "Hero"
or a live anime
...Jackie Chan as Naruto and Jet Li as Sasuke

reply to post by Kantzveldt


They were built by the ancients, just before the last collapse of humanity.
Wars since have destroyed more info on the last civilization.

Originally posted by guppy
reply to post by Kantzveldt

 

That is awesome. Does make you wonder the true history of both series of caves. Plus, were these series of caves ever interconnected once before? And, how many more of these are around China and surrounding countries?

I am stumped that no records were found in China. Ancient China beuracracy was well-known for recording almost all aspects of life. There has to be some record somewhere that can shed more light.

there have been multiple periods in chinese history
wherein massive book burnings and historical revisions took place

reply to post by Kantzveldt


That's bizarre.

Never mind that Huachan and Longyou seem to be outside the geographical reach of Buddhist-Greco syncreticism. Were talking of eastern China. To make things just a bit more enigmatic, it isn't Buddhism, as you mentioned, but Taoism, which incorporates Greek styles of art.

This truly is a highly unusual, and improbable, find. If only we could get a time machine to see what conditions led to the construction of this grotto: who did it, why they did it, etc.

The question has been raised a couple of times as to whether or not modern machine tools have been used, somehow, to create the Longyou grottoes.

I will admit that I am no expert, and I don't have time at the moment to run out and become an expert on modern excavation techniques, but there is just some Fakey Mc Fakester quality to this supposedly ancient site that I just can't shake.

It seems obvious that parts of it are old. My initial impression after having seen it for the first time and looking in to it is that this site may have been "enhanced" with modern tools.

Take a look at these images which show the trace pattern left behind by rock boring machines...







Also, the government in China does not have a problem with religion and taoism, speculation on ancient pyramids or UFOs or any of that stuff, as long as they are controlling it.

The caves are cool, but I'm not buying their pedigree.

Looks like advanced technology would been used to carve this out of the bedrock, those bore marks look like the entire place was drilled out of the rock. I doubt it's water erosion, that pattern wouldn't be consistent on everything.

It was the Wu Tang Clan! They're always talkin about "The 36 chambers" and here they are.

Nah seriously though, I took a CNC machining class before and the marks made on the wall do look a lot like the marks a machining tool makes on its work. Somebody said something about a fingerprint, that's exactly what machining marks look like.

reply to post by Bybyots

Well that's certainly interesting. Any academics from the western world able to verify/inspect those caves? I wouldn't put it past the Chinese government to carve out these caves just to get tourists.

reply to post by dontreally



Yes all totally unheard of, these carvings are superb yet i have only seen them on that one blog, there's a great documentary waiting to be made about them that probably won't be made any time soon, the Queen of the Immortals in the form of a Western woman just won't go down well...explains all the lame ass explanations put forward for these caves.

I always irk at the word "discovered" - 99% of the time it's something from freakin' years ago - like 92' here.

Pretty cool though - reminds me of the Maltese hypogeum.

Weird places.

Very cool post as usual K, thnx...

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Kantzveldt

 

How was the rock carved out so precisely and effectively back then?

Well....duh..



someone had to say it...

Originally posted by coredrill

Kantzveldt, you phrase the title of the topic as if it was recently discovered.
That is sensationalism.

the grottoes were discovered around 23 years back and is not a recent find.

Not everyone has seen them so bug off. GREAT PICTURES and thanks for sharing them.

Soul

Assuming power tools were created between 1900-2000,

it doesn't really take much logic to realize that if the caves were under water, power tools PROBABLY weren't invented when the caves were in construction....

Come on ATS... power tools... really? So they used modern tools to carve a whole cave THEN decided to submerge in water for how long? Skeptics should really try logic, it helps.

reply to post by pheonix358


Well, the Chinese word for 'dragon' IS 'lóng'. And the first set of caves are at LONGyou. Considering that, you might actually be on to something. Whether that means that dragons really existed is another supposition altogether.