Official Story or Stories, Timelines & Some Facts - Boston Marathon Bombing

Originally posted by soular
...www.wesh.com... v-moments-before-blasts/-/12983450/19892514/-/q51qd6/-/index.html
...There's a video with that.

Sincere thanks. Will have to take a look.
He (the photographer) apparently took what others said (FBI), and assumed Tsarnaev was in front of The Forum Restaurant in this photo...
It is easily determined, however...that he is not...but, is rather, in front of the Atlantic Fish Co.
Anyway... may have to shut down for the evening...but will certainly have a look at the video tomorrow.

Originally posted by soular
Daytona Beach man says he captured picture of Boston Marathon suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev moments before blasts

link

In the article you linked...Seale says that he emailed the FBI (I guess, to let them know he had taken this picture), and they hadn't gotten back to him, yet.
I don't think they will be very pleased to find that this picture has already made it into the public database...

reply to post by WanDash


In fact, it seems to be only on that article, not in other media outlets. I used the Google Image search and it just appears once. Maybe it's on some discussion boards pages though.

Originally posted by soular
...In fact, it seems to be only on that article, not in other media outlets. I used the Google Image search and it just appears once. Maybe it's on some discussion boards pages though.
...

Hopefully!!! (You would think so.)

By the way... I noticed that he said he snapped the picture at 2:44 P.M.
The FBI statement says that he "detached himself from the crowd" (where he and his brother had been photographed together) at approximately 2:45 P.M. ...and from there, moved in such a manner that, "approximately 15 seconds later", he was in front of The Forum Restaurant.
And, the remainder of the statement says that he remained in the same place for approximately 4 minutes (again, this is the amount of time between 2:45 & 2:49 - with 2:49 being "when the first bomb exploded")...
There may be enough wiggle-room in those times, for the story to continue to work. I don't know that I would consider the distance in this photo 'a half-block' away from the Forum...but...will get back to it, tomorrow and see if it fits.
Thanks - Have a good evening!

Here is the video report about the photo taken by Colin Seale at 2:44pm on 15 April 2013 from WESH (Orlando NBC Affiliate): '
www.wesh.com... x.html

Marc Fucarile & his friends (the 5 guys out of which 3-4 lost legs).


link

So I think the pic taken by the Daytona man, while Tsarnaev is standing in front of the restaurant beside the Forum, was taken before he move in front of the Forum and left his knacpack. I think he still has knackpack on because on this last pic you brought, you don't see Marc Fucarile & friends, if they were there, we could probably spot them on the pic.

I don't see them, probably they haven't get there yet.

reply to post by soular


Good catch! I am unable to find the little girl on someone's shoulders in the street view either. It might be the different views but she should be easy to find.

You see, they should be standing right here.




They are not there yet, imo.

Originally posted by soular
You see, they should be standing right here.
...

...They are not there yet, imo.

You may be correct.
I see two guys just to the right of your arrows that [I]might[/I] fit the description/s...but, it is too blurry to tell.

I must apologize for an error in assumption that has pervaded this thread...

I have assumed that the photograph of the two brothers standing together...is of them standing for "approximately 1 minute", from around 2:41 p.m. to 2:42 p.m. ...
The photos that I've been referencing, however, are of the two brothers shortly after "entering the scene", coming off of Glouchester...still a block or more away from The Forum Restaurant.
According to the FBI Complaint, this "revision" would place those photos (there are quite a few) in a frame between 2:38 p.m. and 2:40 p.m. (or thereabout).

The photo below, shows the second blast area...and is provided, here, to demonstrate from another angle, where the younger Tsarnaev was standing in the photo taken by Seale...



The large arrow in the street points to the bomb-blast location. (If you look at many photos of this spot, available online - you will find that the "offending tree" has been removed.)
The smaller arrow, points to where the younger Tsarnaev was standing in Seale's photo.

The question that arises from all this...is --
Was the location of the younger Tsarnaev, as shown in Seale's photo, the same location that the FBI was calling "a half-block" from The Forum?
It is actually at the far-end of the restaurant next-door-to The Forum... But - I suppose, it depends on what parameters the agent was using for...relativity.

As you can see in the Seale photo... The pedestrian traffic was high in that area...
Would it have taken 15 seconds to move from the Atlantic Fish Co. tree...to The Forum tree?
I guess that's possible...
In that case, though - it would be certain, that Seale was "wrong" about Tsarnaev having already "discarded" his backpack.

Another thing: According to the FBI Complaint...when he (the younger Tsarnaev) began moving toward The Forum, both hands were occupied... One with the "knapsack", and the other with his cell phone. His right hand is touching his chin, in the Seale photograph... When he begins moving...allegedly...the thumb of his right hand is "hooked under the strap of his knapsack".
And again...if this picture was taken at 2:44 p.m. -- there's not a lot of time for all those pieces to fall into place.

Anyway - the primary point of this post, was to address the erroneous assumption that the commonly seen photos of the two brothers together...were of them "together" for about 1 minute, at around 2:41/2:42...while, in fact, they were (more likely) taken a good two or three minutes earlier.
(This would also affect the projected finishes for the two BIBs noted from the beginning.)

Originally posted by WanDash
The question that arises from all this...is --
Was the location of the younger Tsarnaev, as shown in Seale's photo, the same location that the FBI was calling "a half-block" from The Forum?

Would it have taken 15 seconds to move from the Atlantic Fish Co. tree...to The Forum tree?
I guess that's possible...

In that case, though - it would be certain, that Seale was "wrong" about Tsarnaev having already "discarded" his backpack.

- On the half block: According to Google Maps the distance between the Forum Restaurant (755 Boylston St) and Atlantic Fish (761 Boylston St) is 36 feet. In looking at every possible scenario of estimation, there is no logical scenario to refer to this as "half a block" when in reality it is barely a quarter block (if we count the portion of Boylston St between Fairfield St and Ring Rd as a block).

- On the 15 seconds: As someone who has lived in major cities for the past 15 years and attended countless events where the crowd is comparable to the one pictured, it would be virtually impossible to get between the two points in 15 seconds (and I know how to get through crowds). The reason is quite simple: the fence around Atlantic Fish's outside seating slows the crowd moving because it creates a bottleneck of pedestrian traffic slowing everything down and making one utter "excuse me" a million times to get yourself 10 feet.

- On Seale's photograph: In almost every photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev with the backpack he has his arm positioned the same way and holds the backpack on the same shoulder. Exposure to the many photos of him holding the backpack establish a pattern which made it very easy to deduct Dzhokhar is wearing the backpack in the Seale photo. Even before I read Seale's comment that he didn't think he was wearing the backpack, I had already concluded based on those patterns that he was still wearing the backpack and on further examination I am confident he is wearing the backpack in the Seale photo.

Is it possible that in the photo the Daytona beach man took, Tsarnaev had simply stopped his walk & stand there for only 2-3 seconds? Before continuing to the point, behind the next tree, a few feet away. Then it would just mean that Colin Seale happened to snap him during Tsarnarv 2-3 seconds stopped walking (or hesitated?).

Also, here's a pic where you see how he's holding his cell phone:



His hand holding onto his knack pack is at 6-8 inches from his chin, he could have been touching his chin for just 2-3 seconds, while he took a little break of 2 seconds to turn to look at the runner while walking? Then immediately finish walking to the front of the Forum restaurant.

Well, after reading NickDC202, I think it is possible, indeed, it could have took him close to 15 seconds (in this dense crowd) to walk from the smaller arrow (next-door to the forum) to the bigger arrow (the tree in front of the Forum).

Originally posted by NickDC202
...- On the half block: According to Google Maps the distance between the Forum Restaurant (755 Boylston St) and Atlantic Fish (761 Boylston St) is 36 feet. In looking at every possible scenario of estimation, there is no logical scenario to refer to this as "half a block" when in reality it is barely a quarter block (if we count the portion of Boylston St between Fairfield St and Ring Rd as a block).

Well - I'm with you, on this. In trying not to require "too much" of the FBI, however, I am also willing to allow for whatever kind/sorts of poor/low/distorted qualities the Forum surveillance camera might have inflicted upon the agent... But - yes - only in a very limited array of scenarios would someone call 36 feet a half-block (especially in writing a Criminal Complaint that would/should be held to the highest standard).

- On the 15 seconds: As someone who has lived in major cities for the past 15 years and attended countless events where the crowd is comparable to the one pictured, it would be virtually impossible to get between the two points in 15 seconds (and I know how to get through crowds). The reason is quite simple: the fence around Atlantic Fish's outside seating slows the crowd moving because it creates a bottleneck of pedestrian traffic slowing everything down and making one utter "excuse me" a million times to get yourself 10 feet.

I really wouldn't know.
I have lived in large cities, but rarely put myself in a position to be in (or have to maneuver through) such a crowd.
MUCH LESS, with a 30+ pound backpack...loaded with a bomb...
There is also the possibility that he was waiting for a "lull" in sidewalk traffic... Though I don't think the odds are with that scenario.
Another question, though --- Why move two trees away?
Why go through the trouble?
Just set the backpack down, where you're not being challenged for position... wait it out... and exit on queue...

- On Seale's photograph: In almost every photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev with the backpack he has his arm positioned the same way and holds the backpack on the same shoulder. Exposure to the many photos of him holding the backpack establish a pattern which made it very easy to deduct Dzhokhar is wearing the backpack in the Seale photo. Even before I read Seale's comment that he didn't think he was wearing the backpack, I had already concluded based on those patterns that he was still wearing the backpack and on further examination I am confident he is wearing the backpack in the Seale photo.

I entirely agree.
The one thing, though -- That backpack, supposedly weighed a good 30+ pounds... After a few minutes of standing and/or walking with it... It's going to start putting a strain on the neck. I still don't get (fathom) why he didn't just set it down against "that tree".
Was there something more special about the other tree (or - the Forum - or, the intersection - or, the mailbox)?
Could it have been that he was uncomfortable setting it down with the little girl in front of him...and hoped to find a spot absent of small children...but, realized he was running out of time, and had to "unload" and "prepare"...?
Obviously I don't know... Just speculation/s... But - it is a question for consideration.

Thanks for your input/s and insight/s!

Regarding the timing the explosions occurred

Some Facts

At 11:58 a.m. EDT Rita Jeptoo of Kenya crossed the finish line to become the 2013 women's winner
At 12:10 p.m. EDT Lelisa Desisa of Ethiopia crossed the finish line to become the 2013 men's winner
At 2:49 p.m. EDT The explosions occurred on Boylston Street near the Boston Marathon finish line

We also know from the history of the race that the largest crowds are on Boylston Street near the finish line to watch the race winners and after watching the pro's run, by 12:30/1:00pm (at the latest) the finish line crowd tends to thin out; this is supported by the photos of the virtually empty grandstands by the time of the explosions.

If one's goal is to enact the most destruction and inflict the most terror, why wait until 2:49pm (over 2 hours after the largest possible crowds would have thinned out) to set off the devices?

Logically the timing doesn't make sense if one's goal is to do the most damage.

Originally posted by soular
Is it possible that in the photo the Daytona beach man took, Tsarnaev had simply stopped his walk & stand there for only 2-3 seconds? Before continuing to the point, behind the next tree, a few feet away. Then it would just mean that Colin Seale happened to snap him during Tsarnarv 2-3 seconds stopped walking (or hesitated?).

I've considered that too. To me, however, his physical attitude looks to be in more of a "settled" state than a "hesitating/interim" state. That is a subjective observation...so - IT'S POSSIBLE.

Also, here's a pic where you see how he's holding his cell phone:

His hand holding onto his knack pack is at 6-8 inches from his chin, he could have been touching his chin for just 2-3 seconds, while he took a little break of 2 seconds to turn to look at the runner while walking? Then immediately finish walking to the front of the Forum restaurant.

I think this photo is actually one of the out-takes from a video camera between Glouchester & Fairfield. Interesting that it would be "the same pose" as the FBI alleges he was in, when leaving the "half-block-away" spot, for the Forum Restaurant...spot.

Originally posted by WanDash


(The brothers were reported to be standing approximately 1/2 block from the restaurant at said time, in this pic’.)

That's this place:

867 Boylston St

Originally posted by soular
(The brothers were reported to be standing approximately 1/2 block from the restaurant at said time, in this pic’.)

That's this place:

867 Boylston St

That is correct...which is why I made the post (three or four or five ago) apologizing for the mis-association, and amending the times to suit said correction.
Good that you caught it, though.

Originally posted by WanDash
I've considered that too. To me, however, his physical attitude looks to be in more of a "settled" state than a "hesitating/interim" state. That is a subjective observation...so - IT'S POSSIBLE.

The most curious thing about the photos of Dzhokhar where he is standing in the vicinity of the Forum Restaurant and Atlantic Grill is that he appears to be cool, calm, collected and in one photo of him (the one showing an object near his feet which could possibly be the backpack) he appears to be grinning or smiling. The other curious thing about that photo is Dzhokhar appears to either genuinely interested in watching the race or looking for someone he expects to meet him. While many might believe that he is looking for his brother Tamerlan in that photo, if the official story is to be believed then this would not be possible because if he is looking for Tamerlan who we are told is planting the backpack at the other location at that time then he is looking for Tamerlan he is the completely wrong direction.

Also, in my opinion, in comparing the photos of cool, calm, collected Dzhokhar pre-explosion and the photo of Dzhokhar after the explosion there is a noticeable change in demeanor and genuinely scared/frightened look on his face.

Finally, regarding the big deal being made about him holding his mobile and looking at it frequently: to me it would be suspicious is he was NOT looking at his mobile frequently when standing alone in a crowd because myself and everyone I know or observe look at their mobile frequently when alone in a crowd, an elevator; anywhere really.

Originally posted by NickDC202


The most curious thing about the photos of Dzhokhar where he is standing in the vicinity of the Forum Restaurant and Atlantic Grill is that he appears to be cool, calm, collected and in one photo of him (the one showing an object near his feet which could possibly be the backpack) he appears to be grinning or smiling. The other curious thing about that photo is Dzhokhar appears to either genuinely interested in watching the race or looking for someone he expects to meet him. While many might believe that he is looking for his brother Tamerlan in that photo, if the official story is to be believed then this would not be possible because if he is looking for Tamerlan who we are told is planting the backpack at the other location at that time then he is looking for Tamerlan he is the completely wrong direction.

edit on 5/13/2013 by NickDC202 because: (no reason given)

All my interest in what happened at the site of the second blast comes from the very strong intuition that they had a co-conspirator, that it was not just both of them, and that it is around the site of the second blast that they were supposed to 'see' him. I keep looking at the pics of the crowd around/close to the Forum restaurant, coz I am deeply convinced that there is someone 'with them' somewhere hiding in the crowd. This is my conviction, since the following 4-5 days after the Boston marathon bombing. I really think they had another guy with them, which was himself also supposed to set off a third bomb, but which finally didn't.