Official Story or Stories, Timelines & Some Facts - Boston Marathon Bombing

Originally posted by NickDC202
...The most curious thing about the photos of Dzhokhar where he is standing in the vicinity of the Forum Restaurant and Atlantic Grill is that he appears to be cool, calm, collected and in one photo of him (the one showing an object near his feet which could possibly be the backpack) he appears to be grinning or smiling. The other curious thing about that photo is Dzhokhar appears to either genuinely interested in watching the race or looking for someone he expects to meet him. While many might believe that he is looking for his brother Tamerlan in that photo, if the official story is to be believed then this would not be possible because if he is looking for Tamerlan who we are told is planting the backpack at the other location at that time then he is looking for Tamerlan he is the completely wrong direction.

Also, in my opinion, in comparing the photos of cool, calm, collected Dzhokhar pre-explosion and the photo of Dzhokhar after the explosion there is a noticeable change in demeanor and genuinely scared/frightened look on his face.

Finally, regarding the big deal being made about him holding his mobile and looking at it frequently: to me it would be suspicious is he was NOT looking at his mobile frequently when standing alone in a crowd because myself and everyone I know or observe look at their mobile frequently when alone in a crowd, an elevator; anywhere really.

Whether he is actually interested in watching the race...looking for someone...or "feigning cool-under-pressure, do you consider it possible that he was not paranoid to the nth degree of every eye, cop, bump, someone recognizing him...(like a school mate)...?
Unable to put myself in his shoes - I can't answer that with any confidence. It would seem "a tall order" for someone who had not been practicing, rehearsing...or trained for such an "assignment".
I know it is not beyond the realm/s of possibility...but, again - it is a "tall order".

As you say - it is extremely unlikely that he's looking for his brother.

As for the change in demeanor... A case could be made for such an interpretation.
Conversely - even such a case could be explained the other way with... Before the explosion - it was "fantasy". After the "explosion"...it's real. People are really maimed, screaming, crying...maybe even "killed"... Wonder if anyone is going to put 2 & 2 together...?

Originally posted by NickDC202
Regarding the timing the explosions occurred

Some Facts

At 11:58 a.m. EDT Rita Jeptoo of Kenya crossed the finish line to become the 2013 women's winner
At 12:10 p.m. EDT Lelisa Desisa of Ethiopia crossed the finish line to become the 2013 men's winner
At 2:49 p.m. EDT The explosions occurred on Boylston Street near the Boston Marathon finish line

We also know from the history of the race that the largest crowds are on Boylston Street near the finish line to watch the race winners and after watching the pro's run, by 12:30/1:00pm (at the latest) the finish line crowd tends to thin out; this is supported by the photos of the virtually empty grandstands by the time of the explosions.

If one's goal is to enact the most destruction and inflict the most terror, why wait until 2:49pm (over 2 hours after the largest possible crowds would have thinned out) to set off the devices?

Logically the timing doesn't make sense if one's goal is to do the most damage.

The "unOfficial Time" I have shown for Jeptoo (female winner) - was - 2 hours, 26 minutes and 25 seconds into the race...according to en.wikipedia.org...
The "clock" shows 2:26:24 as her mid-section is about to touch the tape...

The "Official Time" I have shown for Desisa...according to www.bostonmagazine.com...
is 2:10:27...

In the photos I have that include the first and/or second explosion/s, I'm guess-timating between 50% & 60% of the grandstands to be full/occupied.
Photos within a minute or two after the explosions...show the stands almost entirely empty.

Nevertheless - your point is taken.
If mass casualty &/or destruction were the intent...pretty sloppy (amateurish, or even spur-of-the-momentish) planning.

Boston Marathon bombs inconsistent with Al Qaeda web instructions
By Catherine Herridge
Published April 26, 2013

The bombers who attacked the Boston Marathon last week did not rely on cellphone detonators, but rather toy car speed controllers as the trigger, requiring a clear view of the explosives, according to a national security source familiar with the FBI investigation.

The source, who agreed to discuss progress in the marathon bombing case on the condition of anonymity, said the finding is significant, adding the use of remote-control toy parts as a detonation mechanism is not found in the Al Qaeda online magazine Inspire, which was cited in early reports as the suspects' likely bomb-making guide.

While the working theory among investigators is that one or both of the Tsarnaev brothers triggered the detonation using the speed controllers, Fox News is told a third party in the crowd has not been ruled out, though there is no evidence suggesting a third party at this time.

"I can't comment on any of the specifics on the design of the weapon that went off, but it is very clear when you take the totality of it that there was some outside counsel to these individuals on how to build and how to detonate," Republican Rep. Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said.

Asked about possible third-party involvement, Rogers did not rule it out. "This was not something that we believe that on their own that they came up with, that design was on their own," he said. "That's why those six months in Russia becomes so important. And other persons of interest that I know investigators would like to talk to becomes very, very important here."

On Thursday, a senior counterterrorism official from the New York Police Department also knocked down reports that the bombs could be built by amateurs using information gleaned from the Internet.

"These are not crude bombs, these are very effective small bombs," Richard Daddario, deputy commissioner for counterterrorism explained to the House Homeland Security Subcommittee. "And I think people shouldn't use the term ... crude device."

Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, told investigators from his hospital bed that he and and his brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, used a guide from Al Qaeda's online magazine in making the pressure-cooker explosives that killed three and injured more than 200 people in Boston.

But the national security source noted that remote control parts are not mentioned in the bomb-making manual published in Inspire -- a magazine that is distributed mainly through online jihadist chat rooms, some of which are password-protected.

link

Originally posted by soular
All my interest in what happened at the site of the second blast comes from the very strong intuition that they had a co-conspirator, that it was not just both of them, and that it is around the site of the second blast that they were supposed to 'see' him. I keep looking at the pics of the crowd around/close to the Forum restaurant, coz I am deeply convinced that there is someone 'with them' somewhere hiding in the crowd. This is my conviction, since the following 4-5 days after the Boston marathon bombing. I really think they had another guy with them, which was himself also supposed to set off a third bomb, but which finally didn't.

I could see why you might think that.

I would throw another idea into the mix that I can't completely rule out at this point is that Dzhokhar was under the impression it was a fake device. Let me explain: Since 11 September 2001, with the exception of the failed Times Square car bombing, every single major terror bust in the United States has sourced back to the same group, a single entity that has in every single case funded, equipped and even incited the would-be terrorists into action: the FBI. For background, in 2011 Mother Jones highlighted the Six Top FBI-Led Terror Plots and other agencies have been known to do the same.

With that in mind, perhaps the Tsarnaev brothers who have had contact with federal agencies were commissioned to be part of a drill to see if government security forces could detect suspicious packages; noting the recent LA Times article Intelligence report identified vulnerability before Boston Bombing which states:

Five days before two bombs tore through crowds at the Boston Marathon, an intelligence report identified the finish line of the race as an "area of increased vulnerability" and warned Boston police that extremists may use "small scale bombings" to attack spectators and runners at the event. The 18-page report was written by the Boston Regional Intelligence Center, a command center funded in part by the Department of Homeland Security that helps disseminate intelligence information to local police and first responders.

Given that the 18-page report correctly predicted the specific location, the type of attack and the type of individual involved and noting the added private paramilitary security at the finish line area and the symbolism of the black and white hats, is it so "out there" to put forward the possibility that the explosions were part of a security drill? While I have not "bought into" this idea, I haven't ruled it out because given the proven track record of government agencies it can't be ruled out. Additionally, if this scenario is true, I find myself torn about why the explosions occurred and think the possibilities would be: The government agency messed up and didn't provide "duds" to the brothers or one of the brothers modified the drill-specific "dud" devices to go boom. In the absence of clear official facts, neither can be ruled out.

reply to post by WanDash


That is how long it took her to finish the race, NOT the time of day.

Originally posted by NickDC202
reply to post by WanDash

 

That is how long it took her to finish the race, NOT the time of day.

EXCELLENT!
Thanks for bringing that point to light.

reply to post by soular


I call bollocks on these reports hyping the effectiveness of and sophistication of the devices that exploded in Boston and I base it on evidence of a video that came out after the Boston Marathon bombings demonstrating the blast of a device made from the instructions in the Al Qaeda magazine; that device enacted far more destruction than the Boston devices which were not as effective as they were capable.

Additionally, Mike Rogers is a drama queen and it is important to downplay the device that Al Qaeda magazine provides step-by-step instructions to make because you want to avoid people using those instructions to make their own bombs to serve their own misguided purposes.

Originally posted by NickDC202
Regarding the timing the explosions occurred

Logically the timing doesn't make sense if one's goal is to do the most damage.

Originally posted by WanDash

If mass casualty &/or destruction were the intent...pretty sloppy (amateurish, or even spur-of-the-momentish) planning.

Totally agree.

It could be possible that the mastermind of the plot (not Tamerlan but another more instructed fellow on how to make bombs) wasn't looking for bigger mass killing but rather was aiming at to create a terrorist event for which those two idiots would be caught fast and with as much evidence as possible against them.

It's as if someone was using them, as for example a russian spy who wanted to attract attention on Chechenya's radicalism & terrorism.

reply to post by soular

Thanks for the article.
I had been informed of this "development in the story", but had not seen a source.
As for another accomplice -- that may simply be the tip of the iceberg.
Though - I still question the "master-minding" of this "plan".
But - as to the "line of sight" requirements for the triggering device -- I wonder how "clean" the line of sight would need to be.
In my opinion -- unless they had helio capabilities...planning such an act with line-of-sight requirements would have been foolish... Like a bunch of middle-schoolers impulsively playing with the latest information gleaned from some online magazine/forum...like ATS.

reply to post by WanDash


No problem. When I researched the specific times I noted in this post I made sure to get the exact times and time zones absolutely correct in order to share accurate information.

I think many of us have learned from the Boston incident that if you're not signed into a Twitter account and search Tweets that by default the Tweets are timestamped with Pacific time zone times. I know that this caused much confusion with the Boston Globe tweet regarding the bomb squad detonation as the Pacific time zone timestamp caused many to believe that Tweet was made prior to the bombings when, in reality, it was made well after the explosions.

About the drill, if the mastermind of the plot would have wanted the 2 idiots to get identified & caught, he could have choose specifically the Boston Marathon moreover if he knew there was to be a drill with a lot of SEALs around, coz it would ensure more chance for them to caught the chechen brothers. The mastermind, if there is one, seems to have intended, purposely looked for to send them directly & as fast as possible in the Feds arms.

Originally posted by NickDC202
...I call bollocks on these reports hyping the effectiveness of and sophistication of the devices that exploded in Boston and I base it on evidence of a video that came out after the Boston Marathon bombings demonstrating the blast of a device made from the instructions in the Al Qaeda magazine; that device enacted far more destruction than the Boston devices which were not as effective as they were capable.

Additionally, Mike Rogers is a drama queen and it is important to downplay the device that Al Qaeda magazine provides step-by-step instructions to make because you want to avoid people using those instructions to make their own bombs to serve their own misguided purposes.

I can see and even align with your concerns regarding "the device"...if we're just talking about building the bomb/s.

Where I think we're asked to take a leap of faith, however...is in the detonating device and/or method.
Someone had to decided "not going to use cell phone detonators"...which could be triggered from anywhere (because......WHY?)...but instead, use "line-of-sight" triggers that require a close proximity TO BOTH DEVICES.

If we're considering a third party...in the crowd...triggering the devices... Unless we're putting them "up high", on top (or, near the top) of a building -- there's not enough time between the blasts, for someone to get from the first blast site, to the second.

I know that you didn't suggest this...but, it is within the context of what you were replying to...

Speaking of a mastermind, have you guys seen this short 3 minute clip? A blond woman jogger in green, replete with head and wristband just as the "illuminati card" portrays, tosses an item to the old man who falls?
vimeo.com...

Originally posted by NickDC202
...I would throw another idea into the mix that I can't completely rule out at this point is that Dzhokhar was under the impression it was a fake device. Let me explain: Since 11 September 2001, with the exception of the failed Times Square car bombing, every single major terror bust in the United States has sourced back to the same group, a single entity that has in every single case funded, equipped and even incited the would-be terrorists into action: the FBI. For background, in 2011 Mother Jones highlighted the Six Top FBI-Led Terror Plots and other agencies have been known to do the same.

With that in mind, perhaps the Tsarnaev brothers who have had contact with federal agencies were commissioned to be part of a drill to see if government security forces could detect suspicious packages; noting the recent LA Times article Intelligence report identified vulnerability before Boston Bombing which states:

Five days before two bombs tore through crowds at the Boston Marathon, an intelligence report identified the finish line of the race as an "area of increased vulnerability" and warned Boston police that extremists may use "small scale bombings" to attack spectators and runners at the event. The 18-page report was written by the Boston Regional Intelligence Center, a command center funded in part by the Department of Homeland Security that helps disseminate intelligence information to local police and first responders.

Given that the 18-page report correctly predicted the specific location, the type of attack and the type of individual involved and noting the added private paramilitary security at the finish line area and the symbolism of the black and white hats, is it so "out there" to put forward the possibility that the explosions were part of a security drill? While I have not "bought into" this idea, I haven't ruled it out because given the proven track record of government agencies it can't be ruled out. Additionally, if this scenario is true, I find myself torn about why the explosions occurred and think the possibilities would be: The government agency messed up and didn't provide "duds" to the brothers or one of the brothers modified the drill-specific "dud" devices to go boom. In the absence of clear official facts, neither can be ruled out.

Being that this discussion has been relegated to the "Highly Speculative" Skunk Works forum...I guess it's safe to "speculate".
And - as you - I think a lot of peripheral facts, in this case, give credibility to the consideration of just such a "theory" as you've put forth.
My first question...for the assumption that the brothers were acting alone...is - Why? What's the motive?
They're not hitting anyone they know. (presumably)
They're not hitting the "great Satan"...for Islam...in any meaningful way.
Just hurting a lot of innocent people.
It is so moronic, in those regards...it almost has to have been planned (as soular has suggested) with an ulterior/secondary/subliminal purpose.

In another thread I questioned "how convenient" that the brothers were photographed numerous times from the time they walked onto Boylston (from Glouchester).
Another participant scolded that it would be MORE strange if they weren't photographed...with as many iPhones and cameras as were present.
And - if we accept that reasoning as "sound", my question is - "where are all the photos of the older Tsarnaev for the next 5 minutes?" He was going where even more action was taking place (the Finish Line)... I haven't seen one photo of him after those first few between Glouchester & Fairfield (as far as I know)... The FBI didn't even say that they had photo evidence of him, after he passed the Forum Restaurant surveillance camera..."still carrying his backpack".
Anyway - I guess I'll try looking further into the possibility of photos that could include him after passing the Forum (again).

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
Speaking of a mastermind, have you guys seen this short 3 minute clip? A blond woman jogger in green, replete with head and wristband just as the "illuminati card" portrays, tosses an item to the old man who falls?
vimeo.com...

I had not seen the video...where these observations were made or highlighted.
It is interesting... Would have to spend more time with it, before knowing what kind of credence to give the claims.
Very interesting, though.
Thank You!

reply to post by soular


Again, it is just an idea that I have not been able to rule out for a number of reasons. I would suggest reviewing the Mother Jones article I linked to in this post and then to go a step further and Google some of the keywords from the article and note how many other plots were influenced by the FBI using the same methods. I note this because we can not ignore a factual, documented pattern of methods by the FBI and other agencies related to terror plots; you just can not ignore them if you want to take a 360-degree examination of the Boston situation. Additionally, Google the times that the FBI and other agencies supplied real, live devices when using this strategy to "catch" terrorists; you'll be shocked at what you find. Oh, and by the way, facts clearly document that the FBI isn't the only agency using this methods domestically; no one has considered the possibility of cross-agency confusion....

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
Speaking of a mastermind, have you guys seen this short 3 minute clip? A blond woman jogger in green, replete with head and wristband just as the "illuminati card" portrays, tosses an item to the old man who falls?
vimeo.com...

Sorry but no. Absolutely not agree.

I've seen many videos of the first explosion, from different angles, different cameras, and it is very very CLEAR, from a few of them (at least 2-3 I've looked at) that the white paper or white thing (a Styrofoam cup maybe) came directly from the side of the street, from the side-walk, from the spectator area, pushed by the air-flow created from the explosion. It definitely does NOT come out of the hand of the female jogger.

Those Illuminati conspiracies are ridiculous, imo.

Originally posted by NickDC202

Oh, and by the way, facts clearly document that the FBI isn't the only agency using this methods domestically; no one has considered the possibility of cross-agency confusion....

The KGB (now FSB).

Also, keep in mind that the 2014 Winter Olympics will be celebrated from in 2014, in Sochi, Russia. I'm sure Putin is very nervous about some chechen terrorist plots that could tarnish His Games. Putin would want to ensure full cooperation with the US to prevent any dramatic act of terrorism at his Olympic Games.

He also can't wait, probably, until the International communauty finally acknowledges that Chechenya is not an insurgency zone BUT RATHER a place where terrorism and radicalism is at full-blown mode.

Or if not the Russians, any people/organization (Armenian, others) who would want to attract International attention on the uncontrollable full-blown bandit-ism & terrorism acts of Chechen muslims.

For example, even the Chechnya leader himself, Ramzan Kadyrov, wants to get rid of these 'unwanted' Chechen muslin rebels & maybe he needs/is seeking for bigger, more effective help than the one he is receiving from Russia.