DHS using 1000 more rounds per person than the U.S. Army.

Originally posted by Covertblack

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by bg_socalif
I'm willing to bet a lot of that ammo ordered goes to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and it's subordinate training centers...

www.fletc.gov...

Law enforcement doesn't train with hollow points.

I can attest that some agencies do in fact train with hollow points.

Are you DHS?

Originally posted by jefwane
I think the numbers are probably right if that's the number of rounds a soldier uses in training, for their personal weapon. A non-combat arms soldier who is not deployed to a warzone probably uses much less than 350 per year. Two bi-annual qualifications with about sixty rounds (40 rounds for qualification another 6-20 for the zeroing that you do before qualification), 40 for night fire, and 40 for NBC fire. (60x2)+40+40=200 I could see the extra rounds that combat arms and MP's use for additional live fire training getting it to the 350 average per soldier army wide.

It doesn't take someone conspiracy minded to wonder why DHS is stockpiling so many rounds. I was active duty in the Army in the mid nineties in a Combat Arms Branch (but not Infantry, who would shoot much more) and we probably shot 500 or so rounds per person throughout the year in training and qualification with individual weapons.

It's much harder to guestimate how many rounds would be used individually for the crew served weapons though.

edit on 26-4-2013 by jefwane because: (no reason given)

did you know of many using combat grade munitions, I.E. hollow point pistol rounds, for all their range shooting or even qualifying?

i do not believe them when they say they need that many field rounds for a civilian law enforcement agency. they are up to shenanigans in some way shape or form that's for certain.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Covertblack

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by bg_socalif
I'm willing to bet a lot of that ammo ordered goes to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and it's subordinate training centers...

www.fletc.gov...

Law enforcement doesn't train with hollow points.

I can attest that some agencies do in fact train with hollow points.

Are you DHS?

Currently? No.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Long story short, no they do not need that many.

We know DHS has not bought that many rounds but, has a contract to that holds the many rounds at X price for X amount of years. How many times does that have to be covered. Also we know DHS is not orgaznization itself but, an umbrellas for several organizations. Coast Guard, Border Patrol, INS and Customs etc. Their is nothing standard about their mission nor their training. So stop thinking of DHS as a single organization.

reply to post by neo96

Given what we saw in Boston now we know why DHS has been buying so much ammo, and those armored vehicles.

The armored vehicles were not purchased.
They were given to them by the military.

reply to post by camaro68ss


He said he never changed out his barrel.

And he never specified what weapon he was using.

What I find to be so odd , and yet no one has pointed out so far; Is the Military uses far less rounds than the "civilian" side.

The military's "Job" is to kill the enemy combatant, yet they use less rounds, the "civilian" side of federal law enforcement is, what exactly?? yes I know they are trained to "shoot to kill", but is that their primary job?


hope that makes some of you pause and think.........

Originally posted by thedigirati
What I find to be so odd , and yet no one has pointed out so far; Is the Military uses far less rounds than the "civilian" side.

The military's "Job" is to kill the enemy combatant, yet they use less rounds, the "civilian" side of federal law enforcement is, what exactly?? yes I know they are trained to "shoot to kill", but is that their primary job?


hope that makes some of you pause and think.........

If Federal law enforcement is authorized to use lethal force, you shoot to stop the threat.

reply to post by Neocrusader


Combat arms troops will utilize more rounds than admin or rear echelon personnel. They don't qualify as much or they didn't used to.
According to Obama he wants a civilian army ,he didn't say what for,did he?
These GESTAPO in waiting need to be scaled back to a frigging LAW ENFORCEMENT ORGANIZATION not a combat unit.

One of the things that disturbs me the most is that all the rounds ordered by DHS are Jacketed Hollow Points (JHP). The military only uses Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) as JHP are illegal on the battlefield per the Geneva Convention. JHP are much more expensive than FMJ, and if they are training with these it is an incredible waste of money. I know they probably justify it by saying train with what you are going to use in a real life situation but that's real easy to do when you are spending Other Peoples Money like the DHS.

Personally I use FMJ to keep my marksmanship skills up. JHP and more exotic rounds, like the Glaser in my pistol I keep by the bed are too damn expensive to waste for marksmanship. However, I do burn of a few of JHP and Glaser to make sure they feed properly, and don't have drastically different ballistic qualities than FMJ at the ranges I'm likely to need them.

Edit to add: Got to thinking about how many rounds I shot in basic training (15 weeks of 13 series OSUT) back in'95. Long time ago, but I doubt it was more than 800 or so all inclusive of familiarization, pre-qualification, qualification, night fire, NBC fire, and the course where you practice bound and overwatch live fire.

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

He said he never changed out his barrel.

And he never specified what weapon he was using.

I ask because its standard to change out your upper on your rifle after 10,000 rounds do to wear and tear. Accuracy drops fast after 10,000 rounds

reply to post by camaro68ss


Experiences may vary......

During the summer and early fall of '04 I was in Baghdad, Abu Ghraib (city), Al Hilla, An Najaf, and Fallujah. There are several days that me and my team went "black" on ammo (I carried 14 30 mags on me, as did the other #1 man in the squad. Everyone else carried 8). The bad days we would go "black" 2-3 times in a 24 hour period.

I don't think any of us fired 50k rounds a year though.