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Do Parents Have the Right To Refuse Medical Treatment for Faith Healing?

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posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by buster2010
Yes parents have that right to make that decision. As sad as it may be it is the parents right to do what is best for that child and if prayer is their choice then that's final. It isn't the governments place to tell someone their religion is wrong.


it IS wrong, and it IS the government place, when that religious belief causes harm to others...and that is the exact reason why any religion should be tightly monitored and controlled. enough with this 14th century mindset of mythical beings having power over someone


If you are willing to allow the government to tell you how to raise and take care of your child then you should have no problem with the government controlling every aspect of your life.


Non sequitur. We have laws forbiding child abuse or neglect, and there is no reason why support for such much needed laws must mean support for others, actually harmful and totalitarian laws. Your point is reductio ad absurdum fallacy and slippery slope fallacy if I have ever seen one.

Its government's job to protect the rights of the people. (Born) children are people. Children have a right to not be neglected, and this includes medical neglect. Ergo its government's job to protect children from harm caused by irresponsible parents refusing treatment medical science says its necessary.
edit on 26/4/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Where are the pro life people on this issue?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by buster2010
 





It is a persons right to do with their life as they choose. And that right also extends to those that are in their charge as well until that person is capable of asking for treatment by themselves at that time the parents rights ends and that persons rights begins.


No, it doesnt. Personal rights are called personal because they only apply to one person. Children are not property. Parenting is obligations first, rights second.


And what is a parents obligation? To raise their child in the way they think is best.


No. Its to raise the child in the way thats good (read: not harmful) for the child according to our current scientific knowledge and common sense. If it was what you claim then there would be no laws against child abuse by parents or against parental neglect.

I repeat, children are NOT property of the parents (or the state for that matter). They are separate persons with rights (yes, its bull# to claim children dont have rights - ever heard about children rights?), and as such the state needs to protect their rights if there is a threat of violation. The fact that they also have a caretaker (the parents) is of no consequence when it comes to this. Parent's rights over the children are not unlimited.
edit on 26/4/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


The State governments are trying to control women's wombs!! Where are the pro-lifers on the issue of faith healing and letting children die!!! Where is the outrage on this one?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Nor is it the governments place to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by buster2010
It isn't the governments place to tell someone their religion is wrong.


I agree to an extent; however, is it the parents place to choose a religion for their children? That is what it comes down to really. The parents are fully withing their rights, as legal adults, to deny medical care on their own behalf due to religious beliefs. But that is where their constitutionally protected "freedom of religion" ends; at their own person. No one has a right to choose another person's religious preferences; even if that other person is your child.


I have no problem with parents choosing a religion for their child. In some families it helps with the family unit. Besides the child isn't going to stay a child forever they grow up and some of them question their faiths some lose it some don't. I know I did. But I respect a persons right to be true to their faith.

You seem to think it's ok to put limits on our rights is Freedom of Religion the only right you want taken away? How about Right to Bear Arms, Freedom of Speech? When you let one get taken away it only gets easier for the rest to be taken away.


If I say that my religion requires me to have sex with my children or forbids me from feeding them, should I be allowed to do so under the "freedom of religion" excuse?

You have freedom of religion ONLY if it does not conflict with other fundamental rights of other people (such as a right of others to live - you cannot kill others and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card. Or right of the children to not be harmed or neglected - you cannot rape children and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card, and you cannot refuse them needed medical care and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card).
edit on 26/4/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Where are the pro life people on this issue?


I've already given my $.02:




I personally would take a child or myself to a doctor..





edit on 26-4-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by buster2010
It isn't the governments place to tell someone their religion is wrong.


I agree to an extent; however, is it the parents place to choose a religion for their children? That is what it comes down to really. The parents are fully withing their rights, as legal adults, to deny medical care on their own behalf due to religious beliefs. But that is where their constitutionally protected "freedom of religion" ends; at their own person. No one has a right to choose another person's religious preferences; even if that other person is your child.


I have no problem with parents choosing a religion for their child. In some families it helps with the family unit. Besides the child isn't going to stay a child forever they grow up and some of them question their faiths some lose it some don't. I know I did. But I respect a persons right to be true to their faith.

You seem to think it's ok to put limits on our rights is Freedom of Religion the only right you want taken away? How about Right to Bear Arms, Freedom of Speech? When you let one get taken away it only gets easier for the rest to be taken away.


If I say that my religion requires me to have sex with my children or forbids me from feeding them, should I be allowed to do so under the "freedom of religion" excuse?

You have freedom of religion ONLY if it does not conflict with other fundamental rights of other people (such as a right of others to live - you cannot kill others and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card. Or right of the children to not be harmed or neglected - you cannot rape children and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card, and you cannot refuse them needed medical care and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card).
edit on 26/4/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)


You can make up all the scenarios you want. But when it boils down to it you are still for the government taking away a persons rights.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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To quote Gaza, "Not with your faith, not with all of the hope in the world."

Prayers to an apathetic god will not produce results, to put superstition before science in judging a child's life is murder.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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This country is predominantly christian. And anyone calling their self a Christian can not tell these people that they have wronged.

I have some questions for all you so called Christians.

-Does prayer work?

-Why is it only okay to have faith in your prayer when the person is in the hospital receiving the best medical attention in the world?

So these people are to be punished for believing more strongly than the rest of you so called Christians? These people are to be punished for having more faith in their God than you?



-Alien



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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>>
Do Parents Have the Right To Refuse Medical Treatment
>>

OF COURSE NOT.

It's the parent's obligation to care for the kids. This is the definition of what a parent is supposed to do.
Denying medical treatment is NOT it. Why do such people even breed?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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So these people are to be punished for believing more strongly than the rest of you so called Christians? These people are to be punished for having more faith in their God than you?
reply to post by Alien Abduct
 


God really came through for them, huh.

Poor kids.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl



So these people are to be punished for believing more strongly than the rest of you so called Christians? These people are to be punished for having more faith in their God than you?
reply to post by Alien Abduct
 


God really came through for them, huh.

Poor kids.


Yeah and the millions of other children that starve every year. God is great....God is love.....Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world.....

-Alien



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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Where are all the so called Christians? You should be outraged that these people are facing charges! Speak up! Answer the questions I have asked.

-Alien



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by buster2010
It isn't the governments place to tell someone their religion is wrong.


I agree to an extent; however, is it the parents place to choose a religion for their children? That is what it comes down to really. The parents are fully withing their rights, as legal adults, to deny medical care on their own behalf due to religious beliefs. But that is where their constitutionally protected "freedom of religion" ends; at their own person. No one has a right to choose another person's religious preferences; even if that other person is your child.


I have no problem with parents choosing a religion for their child. In some families it helps with the family unit. Besides the child isn't going to stay a child forever they grow up and some of them question their faiths some lose it some don't. I know I did. But I respect a persons right to be true to their faith.

You seem to think it's ok to put limits on our rights is Freedom of Religion the only right you want taken away? How about Right to Bear Arms, Freedom of Speech? When you let one get taken away it only gets easier for the rest to be taken away.


If I say that my religion requires me to have sex with my children or forbids me from feeding them, should I be allowed to do so under the "freedom of religion" excuse?

You have freedom of religion ONLY if it does not conflict with other fundamental rights of other people (such as a right of others to live - you cannot kill others and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card. Or right of the children to not be harmed or neglected - you cannot rape children and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card, and you cannot refuse them needed medical care and excuse it by playing the religion commandment card).
edit on 26/4/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)


You can make up all the scenarios you want. But when it boils down to it you are still for the government taking away a persons rights.


Yes, thats exactly what I am for - I want the government to take away the "right" of parents to abuse or neglect their children. Do you have a problem with that? Because I dont - combating child abuse is surely a task the government (police) should be involved in, just like in combating murder, rape and other serious crimes.
edit on 26/4/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Where are the pro life people on this issue?


Where are the pro choice people on this issue?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 





Yes you are talking about how to raise a person's child. By denying them the right to raise their child by the way their religion says.


No. Someones religion does not have the right to take the life of others or harm others. Children are individuals and they have rights just like everyone else.

Just like you cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater then try and claim freedom of speech.

This is just common sense.


edit on 26-4-2013 by WaterBottle because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Where are the pro life people on this issue?


Where are the pro choice people on this issue?



Right here, arguing that parents do not have the right to murder fully developed sentient human beings.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by WaterBottle

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Where are the pro life people on this issue?


Where are the pro choice people on this issue?



Right here, arguing that parents do not have the right to murder fully developed sentient human beings.


Yeah, make sure u kill those lil bastards before the umbilical cord is cut, no one wants to be a murderer ya know.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by Alien Abduct
Where are all the so called Christians? You should be outraged that these people are facing charges! Speak up! Answer the questions I have asked.

-Alien


We've been posting for a while.

Did you only read the last page?
edit on 27-4-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)




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