Reasons to be

reply to post by backcase


Well I think the biggest relation is that we believe in Jesus. But not to bash we believe that the Pope is a false idol along with the other saints. We do not do hail Marys because it is like praying to her and not Jesus. Also the confessions thing is a big no no for us. We feel it is a contradiction because we believe we are supposed to confess to Jesus for our forgiveness.

reply to post by backcase


I rejected the church because of the people. I reject the religion, Christianity, because of the doctrine.

I don't believe that Jesus was God incarnate, born of virgin, died for my sins. I don't worship a god that requires human blood sacrifice. I don't believe in the resurrection.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by backcase

 

I rejected the church because of the people. I reject the religion, Christianity, because of the doctrine.

I don't believe that Jesus was God incarnate, born of virgin, died for my sins. I don't worship a god that requires human blood sacrifice. I don't believe in the resurrection.

Well you are always entitled to your own opinion and beliefs. I used to not believe, but I got my proof and you may one day too

reply to post by Wanderer777


I used to believe too. I got my proof later in life. I'm approaching 60 now, so I doubt anything is going to chance my consideration of Christian doctrine.

I'm not an atheist, although plenty of Christians think I am. They call me an atheist because I reject that guy from the Old Testament, who led the Israelites to kill, murder, enslave, rape and steal, as being GOD. I reject that Jesus was GOD.

But I have met (my) GOD, and I believe in an inclusive, ever present GOD that is not separate from me, that I don't have to worship or appease to assure a good outcome for my eternal soul.

reply to post by Wanderer777


Not to argue but the whole idolatry argument is for those who choose not to look deeper into the communion of the saints. They choose not to understand such a beautiful heavenly arsenal of prayer and mistake it for idolatry. It's a shame.

As for confession:

When I was and was soon to make my first communion, I went to my first confession.

Upon leaving the confessional and entering the streets again I felt light as feather, supernaturally free. I may have floated home. Such is an experience that I would not trade for the world, the sacraments have power.

reply to post by windword


Well 60 isn't too old to get a little something haha. But you sound like a Deist. Interesting enough most of the founding fathers were Deist

reply to post by windword


I feel like your missing something big, bud.

I used to vacillate between your ideas and my faith, but my Lord comes to persuade me of His love, and that it is God that comes to me in presence.

Also I have some old pictures of The Virgin Mary when she was appearing in Yugoslavia (when it was still a place).

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by Wanderer777

 

Not to argue but the whole idolatry argument is for those who choose not to look deeper into the communion of the saints. They choose not to understand such a beautiful heavenly arsenal of prayer and mistake it for idolatry. It's a shame.

As for confession:

When I was and was soon to make my first communion, I went to my first confession.

Upon leaving the confessional and entering the streets again I felt light as feather, supernaturally free. I may have floated home. Such is an experience that I would not trade for the world, the sacraments have power.

Well I've been to a Catholic church a few times and when you pray to the saints, I'm sorry to say but that is idoltry. And I feel light and free everytime I confess to Jesus. A man is a man and Jesus is God.

reply to post by Wanderer777



If a close relative to you had died, would you not pray to them in your tears, telling them how much you love them?

The lives of the saints give us examples of godly character. I will never forget reading about how St. Francis of Assisi preached sermons to animals. Or when reading the diary of St. Gemma Galgani how my heart burned with excitement.

Usually when a saint is mention in church we say "pray for us", or "may we follow their example", there is no worship of the saints, that is your misunderstanding.

Explain to me how it is idolatry if you think so.

reply to post by backcase


I have witnessed it myself. Them praying to the saints and mother mary. Don't confuse me I am not talking bad about them or saying they were bad people. But I am not misunderstanding anything. My sister is a Catholic as well that's how I ended up going to a Catholic Church because I couldn't make a decision unless I knew the whole story. The "Father" you confess to is a man= False Idol. When they prayed to the saints= False Idol. When doing a hail mary= False Idol. The Pope himself= False Idol. I am sorry but I do not misunderstand anything. I'm sure the saints never wanted to be worshipped, but just because they were good examples does not call for them to be prayed for. The example we are all to strive for is Jesus no one else. The Catholic Church even took several books out of the Bible because people were praying to Angels too much. Well how much of a hypocracy is that? You can't pray to angels, but you can pray to MEN? I am sorry, but if you don't see it then you haven't read the Bible. You just have a priest read it to you. So in the end it is your misunderstanding. Why do you think Christians do not like to be labelled Catholics. Two totally different religions. Just talk to Martin Luther

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by Wanderer777

 

Yes, I agree, but when I go to church I see it as a more serious type of thing. I attend a Catholic church btw. The Eucharist is my reason for staying. The Body of God is there in that tabernacle, and I am sure it is true for other churches.Do you know of any relations between pentecostal churches and the Catholic church. All religion bashing aside here.

I know of no other individualized sacrifical churches personally. The Prot-Eestant does not eat or drink of the body of Christ. The EUCHARIST is miss identified. It really means YOU-ARE-CHRIST. That means you as a vessel are unknowingly cannibalizing Jesus and will lead to all kinds of mischiff. Your Local Bishop/ Parish priest never told you; the wafer/flesh the grapewinejuice/blood you injest is Jesus, this is macabe, sick thinking. Why would you EAT/CONSUME YOUR OWN SAVIOR?

Originally posted by Wanderer777
reply to post by backcase

 

I am sorry but I do not misunderstand anything.

edit on 25-4-2013 by Wanderer777 because: More

I think it was Lao Tzu that said something like "Understanding begins in knowing that you do not understand".

Say what you will but none of these men that you have said are idols, they are not worshiped. The idols are the desires and loves that people have in their hearts which they offer more love to than God.

It is not for me to persuade you though, nor will I argue, I leave it in God's hands and I thank Him for loving me and you despite our imperfections.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

Matthew 26:26

Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:53

reply to post by backcase


You have nothing to say because you realized I was right about that. I'm sorry but you don't know much about your own religion. Your "Saints" made people pay taxes to get into heaven and they also executed Martin Luther because he came out and said they were wrong. They wouldn't even let people have a copy of the bible so no one would find out they are wrong. I'd like to hear your actual response

reply to post by Wanderer777


My response is there and I choose not to argue.

Most of the saints are martyrs or normal people by the way, but idols? No.

To hear people call my religion what it is not is to hear complete and utter ignorance. Why should I argue the truth with someone who denies it? because you want me to?

Read this thread and tell me that it is idolatrous or not good. It embodies the Catholic spirit.

Tears

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by backcase

 

I rejected the church because of the people. I reject the religion, Christianity, because of the doctrine.
I don't believe that Jesus was God incarnate, born of virgin, died for my sins. I don't worship a god that requires human blood sacrifice. I don't believe in the resurrection.

You can have spiritual beginnings without structure, its all about you, not a 'church' not a false god, you did not resonate with these things as they are not your personal truth (perhaps abhorant and actally repellent).

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
Matthew 26:26
Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. John 6:53

Sacrifical cannabalizm. Sick, no child should read these, it is uncertain Freud ever studied Christian Scripture but I would think as any normal adult would say "What the heck is this about I need a piece of wholesome Wrigley JuicyFruit Gum right about now" (call out evil as what it is). Seriously, are you reading the same words I am, blood drenched--the only thing lacking is the female menstrual and male semen mixed as the refreshing palette cleansing course sorbet between appetizer and entree. It was the 'last supper' and needed some finessing.

reply to post by backcase


I am not arguing with anyone. I am having a healthy debate last I checked, but if you can't come up with any rebuttles to my thoughts and opinions then that to me shows you do not have any supporting evidence towards your opinion. Just keep repeating the same things over n over again. Seriously if you're trying to convert someone you can't just turn around and not discuss it. If you were a Christian you'd fight for what you believe til the bitter end. You say you look up to these saints or martyrs then follow their example. I'm sure THEY would discuss it. Nonetheless I will pray for you. I'll be praying to Jesus not Saint Christopher or any other saint, because they have no pwer. Jesus IS God and he answers prayers, not some great person 100's of years ago.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Anything can sound crazy if you take it out of context. They were eating bread and drinking whine. It was an example of consuming the Holy Ghost

Originally posted by Wanderer777
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Anything can sound crazy if you take it out of context. They were eating bread and drinking whine. It was an example of consuming the Holy Ghost

They were more whining about the leavening of the bread. WHO IS THE HOLY GHOST? Our subconscious? It wasnt female whatever it was. God the father and the other trinifactoids. These are questions a 10 year old would ask (way before first communion).