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Eyewitness accounts and U.F.O.'s

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posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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Eyewitness accounts are very important. Especially when it comes from Pilots, Police Officers, the Military, High Ranking Govt. Officials and more.

The skeptic will have you believe that eyewitness accounts are meaningless and these people become just unreliable idiots when they see U.F.O.'s.

THIS IS JUST PURE NONSENSE!

Eyewitness accounts are very important in all walks of life and we always to the credibility of the witness into account. We only live in a bizzaro world where eyewitness accounts are meaningless when we're talking about extraterrestrials and the paranormal.

If a drug dealer said he saw a murder, it's different than if a police officer says he saw a murder. Why? because we always take into account the credibility of the witness. This is why expert testimony is allowed in court. This is because the credibility of the witness. We always weigh the credibility of the witness but when it comes to extraterrestrials, the credibility of the witness is meaningless.

An eyewitness will see a bank robber run out of the bank. Describe what they saw to a sketch artist and the sketch will be put on TV and then it leads to the bank robber. But of course, eyewitness accounts are meaningless.

I know of a person who saw the criminal who committed a murder but he couldn't clearly describe the person he saw. After forensic hypnosis, a clear sketch went on the TV and it lead to the person who had committed several murders. So an eyewitness account saved lives. Of course, the skeptic will tell you eyewitness accounts are meaningless.

What about science? In science many discoveries start with an observation especially in Astronomy and studies of the atmosphere. Then a hypothesis is built to explain the observed phenomena and eventually the hypothesis is tested.

They should start having a sketch artist draw what these eyewitnesses describe after their sighting. Here's a few good accounts.









The point is, the world of most U.F.O. skeptics is a world of intellectual dishonesty. It's a bizzaro world where you need extraordinary evidence and eyewitness accounts are meaningless. It's a world where we never weigh the evidence and reach conclusions based on the available evidence and we never weigh the credibility of the witness.
edit on 9-4-2013 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:12 PM
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As an eyewitness and contactee I thank you for making this thread. I've seen more than my fair share and I do get pretty sick of 'skeptic' bull# about it.

edit on 9-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:13 PM
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its just swamp gas and clouds or the GI Joes doing practice runs against cobra commander bro. Of course there is absolutely no way that millions and millions of people who are just normal's, thousands of people who are in the aviation field and many heads of state or scientist would know what they are talking about..

The gov says there is no aliens even if there are hundreds and thousands of other earth like planets that could support life doesn't mean that there could possibly be any other intelligent life out there.. come on now. Why would the GOV lie to you about anything.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:17 PM
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Excellent OP. S&F

I agree with you. But don't worry about the skeptics, they need their security blanket. Sometimes I like to wrap myself up in skepticism to. It's safe.

Peace,
Cirque



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by neoholographic
The skeptic will have you believe that eyewitness accounts are meaningless and these people become just unreliable idiots when they see U.F.O.'s.

THIS IS JUST PURE NONSENSE!

It's not that the witness accounts are meaningless, it's just that they're subjective reports and therefore inherently useless when it comes to being able to prove that something exists or identify exactly what it is. It's not like these people can't be mistaken, particularly when it comes to witnessing and describing something extremely unusual. Because they certainly can. But even if we unquestionably accept that everyone sees and accurately describes what they experienced, it just doesn't give us any good information we can follow up on and test and verify.

They're like dreams. We all have them. And maybe you can describe to me exactly what happened in one of your dreams. But so what? What am I supposed to do with that information? With UFO reports, maybe we can backtrack them and try to find other witnesses or radar tracings, or photos, or if we're really lucky some kind of ground trace or implant or some other kind of physical thing that links the story to the thing and then the thing to something we can objectively identify as "alien."

But that's all further down the line. The eyewitness report itself, backed up by a photo or not, doesn't get us anywhere. It's just a story. A curiosity. And you can collect all the stories and try to detect patterns in the data, and people have done that, but believe me, after 75 years or so that has all added up to a BIG FAT ZERO.

So you tell me. What have we ever truly learned from an eyewitness account? A real, good, hard fact that we now all accept as true that we didn't before?



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I agree with you. But don't worry about the skeptics, they need their security blanket. Sometimes I like to wrap myself up in skepticism to. It's safe.

Sure. All of us skeptics are scared like little children of "The Truth."

What was The Truth again, and how did we figure out what it was? I forget.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 


I tend to get knocked over the head with it - then I forget...



Peace be with you Blue Shift.

Cirque



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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See, there's a problem with that.

First Hand Witness Accounts are the LOWEST form of scientific evidence. Since science is the only thing that will ever actually legitimize UFO's or actually figure out what they are, the Eyewitness accounts are useless.

I don't believe people are suffering from a mass delusion either. They are seeing something, but the fact remains that the U in UFO is for unidentified.

~Tenth



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule
As an eyewitness and contactee I thank you for making this thread. I've seen more than my fair share and I do get pretty sick of 'skeptic' bull# about it.

edit on 9-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)


so here's your chance. since the topic is about eye witness reports. Let's hear your account. Please don't take my request lightly. If someone has a true account, then I for one would love to hear about it. The more that people come forward, the more credible the topic will become imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are many nutters out there who claim to have been contacted, but eventually society should be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff. so go for it blue, I'm all attention on you

Respectfully,

gfbf



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by greatfriendbadfoe

Originally posted by BlueMule
As an eyewitness and contactee I thank you for making this thread. I've seen more than my fair share and I do get pretty sick of 'skeptic' bull# about it.

so here's your chance. since the topic is about eye witness reports. Let's hear your account. [...]

Sure. Why not? I will say that since I wasn't there, there's no way for me to say for sure that any particular individual is wrong about what they saw. How could I? And I can't even say that an eyewitness didn't see what they claim, or that they're not describing it accurately. As long as a person isn't purposely lying, then I pretty much have to accept that an eyewitness really and truly believes they saw what they saw, and are describing it accurately.

That in no way, however, prevents the eyewitness from being completely wrong about what they saw and what it means, if anything. I just can't prove it, any more than they can prove they're right. Hence, the whole "useless" aspect of eyewitness reports.

edit on 9-4-2013 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



I'm a witness. I have no idea whether or not what I saw in the 1960's up close and directly over my head was military or something else. Being an HONEST person, I admit I don't know. It looked exactly like the reports from that time.

I could have exaggerated or had a hysterical reaction to it for all these years, or I could have embellished a bit to make myself the center of attention, but I chose to be honest with myself and others about it.

People here consider me a skeptic for the most part.

Truth is what I seek and blindly thinking that anything in the sky that is not identifiable, is in fact of Alien origin is not questing for truth. It's someone who wants it to be Alien so badly that they leave critical thinking at the door.

Where I become the most skeptical is the flood of video's and pic's of nothing but small lights in the sky. Things like that actually damage any attempt to get at truth and they should be viewed with heightened skepticism. Many if not most come from attention seekers on YouTube. They would have you believe that somehow, even though real sightings are extremely rare, they have dozens of video's of real UFO's. How dumb would I have to be to give them any credibility at all?

This topic has become a fad with it being somehow popular to see a UFO worthy of note. It's gotten so bad I seldom bother to research most things I see posted these day's. They are building a huge pile of Hay to find the needle in.

Skeptics are looking for truth, while blind believers are trying to make anything that comes along proof. It will be skeptics who find the truth if any truth is to be found.

The shear number of posts of supposed UFO's we see now guarantees that nearly all are pure garbage and not even worth discussing.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by Blue Shift
 


This a complete misunderstanding of the importance of eyewitness accounts. Again, these accounts mean nothing in the eyes of the skeptics but in the eyes of the world we use eyewitness accounts in all other areas of life.

We wouldn't find killers in some cases without eyewitness account.

I was just watching the story of a rapist/killer who had raped and killed like 5 women. The last woman he tried to rape and kill fought and managed to escape. Through all that trauma, she gave the Police a sketch that went on TV and it lead to the capture of this animal and saved lives.

THIS WAS AN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT.

To act like eyewitness accounts have zero value is just senseless.

You asked:


So you tell me. What have we ever truly learned from an eyewitness account? A real, good, hard fact that we now all accept as true that we didn't before?


We know accept U.F.O.'s as true because of eyewitness accounts. So many of these accounts have occurred over the years the existence of U.F.O.'s is now an accepted truth.

Many scientific discoveries begin with an observation that then becomes universally accepted. Then a hypothesis is built to explain the observed phenomena and eventually research thinks of ways to test the hypothesis.

Eyewitness accounts are very important because they also tell you about the objects flying in our skies. Based on these descriptions you can then build a hypothesis to explain what these objects are and then look for ways to test the hypothesis.

So acting like eyewitness accounts have no value to science is just a lie.
edit on 9-4-2013 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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I agree that eyewitness testimony gets short shrift in UFO cases. One of my favorite cases is The Kelly-Hopkinsville Encounter.

ufocasebook.com...

Be sure to watch the video in the link.

Sure, it's only eyewitness testimony, but when you look at all the testimony in the case, there are only two possibilities. Either they are telling the truth and they saw what they said they saw, or for some reason about a dozen simple, church-going people decided to shoot up their own house and then run down to the police station and lie about it. There is no margin for misidentification, or mass halucination, or anything else. Either they told the truth or they lied, and there is no motive I have ever found for them to lie. The most likely, and probably the only, explanation is that they saw exactly what they said they saw.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:28 PM
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Human beings are simply unreliable and subject to their own perception and beliefs. It is a fact that people perceive things differently. This has been researched exhaustively and tested many many times. Thus, by itself, the stories are indeed useless and meaningless without physical evidence that can be examined for validity.

Without corroborating proof, stories are just stories. I think it is no accident that there is zero proof of alien abductions. You can chalk them up to psychiatric problems and attention seeking....until actual evidence is presented.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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Thank you, all. You gave me a thought, which is how I get almost all of them.

If eyewitness accounts are important and useful, especially when more than one person is a witness, what do we do when tens of thousands of people see the same "miracle." Please note that I am not trying to steer this thread off-topic into religion. Rather, I'm asking if people are consistent in their valuation of eyewitness accounts.

If they're valuable, they should be valuable for everything. If not valuable, then fine, what do UFO sightings rest on.

Again, I'm not trying to prove miracles. I'm asking you to think about how valuable eyewitness testimony is.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
See, there's a problem with that.

First Hand Witness Accounts are the LOWEST form of scientific evidence.


And they are the foundation of it all. Science and religion are ancient and collective responses to this ancient stimuli. Science and religion are controlling narratives in competition with each other. Each wants to frame the stimuli in its own terms, and explain away the competition in its own terms.


Since science is the only thing that will ever actually legitimize UFO's or actually figure out what they are, the Eyewitness accounts are useless.


Since the only thing holding science back are mere social mechanisms, sooner or later the rules of science will change. As culture evolves paradigms grow. As paradigms grow possibilities open. As possibilities open culture grows.


I don't believe people are suffering from a mass delusion either. They are seeing something, but the fact remains that the U in UFO is for unidentified.


As an eyewitness I found other eyewitness accounts to be very helpful. There were commonalities that I saw and that gave me a small sense of control over the anomalous and alarming experience.

edit on 9-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by VictorVonDoom
 


Good points!

People describe what they saw. So do you give more weight to the eyewitness testimony or do yo give weight to the skeptics opinion when they saw nothing?

Of course you give weight to the eyewitness account. Also, eyewitness accounts are not perfect in some cases and in others their spot on. What they do is give you a picture of reality and then it's up to science investigate these things.

Skeptics try to act like all eyewitness accounts are the same. They all are meaningless. THIS IS A LIE.

I was watching a Police Officer explain how they deal with multiple eyewitnesses. He was saying even though the eyewitnesses may have different accounts, there's usually the same truths that runs through each account. He also said you look for witnesses that are very detailed this is because some eyewitness accounts are more detailed and accurate than others.

This brings us to the credibility of the witness. Some skeptics act like the credibility of the witness means nothing. This is yet another lie. We always weigh the credibility of the witness.

If Stephen Hawking were to say he was abducted by aliens it would be given more weight than a person who just left the mental hospital who says they were abducted by aliens.

Sadly, you're living in a bizzaro world with skeptics where reason and logic don't exist.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


You make a good point overall. Eyewitnesses are important and skeptics are equally important.

If a large group of people see the same thing, it most certainly is strong evidence that something occurred or was seen. It's not proof of what they saw necessarily, but still it means something.

Your likely leading to the large number of eyewitnesses there are in this topic as a collective? Unless of course you are moving this to religion?

I find the number of witnesses a huge factor in my staying interested in this topic in general. As individuals who have seen something, it's also helpful to know your not alone in seeing it. I actually give more weight to first hand accounts from people who seem rational and credible, than I do things like points of light on video's or little blurs on a photo.

It's certainly the combination of eyewitnesses, photo's and videos along with some documents that collectively make this so interesting. Put it all together and something beyond known aircraft are being seen.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 

Dear Blaine91555,

I have to be careful with this, because I don't want to take this thread to religion, there's certainly enough of that.

What I had in mind was the large number of individuals, small groups, and even large groups who claim to have seen miracles. Tens of thousands saw Fatima, including people eight miles away. For UFOs I'm sure there have been thousands of individual witnesses and some large number of groups of two or more.

The weight given to eyewitnesses is important, and I think that's the topic of this thread. If an individual gives a lot of weight to UFO witnesses, on what logical ground can he discount miracle witnesses. For religious people, if a witness to a miracle is good evidence, then it should be also good evidence for a UFO.

Miracles and UFOs both have modern, scientific evidence supporting them.

I truly don't want to derail this. I suppose I'm asking every poster to determine if they are being consistent with what they regard as evidence, or if they change their standards in order to support the idea they happen to believe in themselves.

With respect,
Charles1952





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