N. Korean satellite orbits over U.S.

if it's a spy Satellite count on North Korea doing nothing for 2 years.... If Un is anything like me when I first got google Earth he's going to be busy....2 weeks trippin on the Nazi buildings on Coronado Island alone....the planning of dozens of road trips that will never happen... in fact the most likely thing to happen is that he'll use his whole army to change the road system of NK to show a portrait of his face from space....

Originally posted by conspiracytheoristIAM

Sorry I don't post many threads.I'm writing this after trying to get some info out in a short story I wrote...'Surviving the Shining Star". i'm going to try this venue instead. On12-12-12 N. Korea launched a satellite called Kwang Myong Song 3 or KMS 3-2. For the next week or so this satellite goes over most of the eastern U.S. at around 330 miles altitude from north to south. Check out www.n2yo.com/ to see in real time .
My concern is that 300 miles or so is the perfect height for an EMP strike, correct ?? I'm not saying it is, just the timing of orbit with current escalation of tension in N. Korea.

Actually...I believe that 50 miles or so would be more ideal. Not much of an effect would occur from 300 miles out, at least IMO.

I don't mean to undercut the severity of the situation, but it seems like a simple sleight of hand scheme:

1.) Roll out big, colorful missiles to your border and threaten a neighboring country allied with the US (South Korea). Send the US Military scrambling abroad. US Sends B2's to South Korea, US Navy Shifts Destroyer in Wake of NKorea Threats

2.) Sneak around the incoming forces and get within firing distance of the mainland of attack (United States). South Korea hunts for North's missing subs

3.) All eyes on South Korea, drop the satellite out of orbit, detonate. Take down the defense grid at home, cut the connection between domestic security and forces abroad. Take the KO shot from the short-range missile submarine.

Counter-Argument: It seems almost too simple, and if I — who am by no means a defense security head — can calculate such a plan-of-attack from behind a laptop, I'm sure some flags have been raised in the DoD.

The main thing to fear in this is our own hubris. Too many Americans see North Korea's small stature as their weakness when truly it's their biggest motive. Kim-Jung-Un (and the puppet masters behind him) know that a simple missile strike "aint gunna cut it" - if you're going to hit a country like the USA you need to use something big enough, timely enough to knock us down, and have the means to keep us from getting back up (i.e. allied reinforcement (domestic muslim-extremist forces), insurrection, bargaining chip).

If something will come from the North, something real, it HAS to be big. Kim-Jung-Un knows that, the American Media not so much...

Originally posted by samkent

Originally posted by hp1229
Satellites hover around the entire planet everyday from many countries just the way our own (US) satellites hover around other countries. Nothing new.

I feel the need to correct a possible misconception you may have.
Sats don't hover. They orbit the entire planet.



.

There is such a thing as a geosynchronous orbit....ie: the satellite orbits at the same speed the earth turns, thereby creating a "hovering" effect.

Earlier in the thread a north-south orbit was mentioned, which, if true, cannot be geosynchronous .

Originally posted by Plan2exist18
I don't mean to undercut the severity of the situation, but it seems like a simple sleight of hand scheme:

1.) Roll out big, colorful missiles to your border and threaten a neighboring ally (South Korea). Send the US Military scrambling abroad. US Sends B2's to South Korea, US Navy Shifts Destroyer in Wake of NKorea Threats

2.) Sneak around the incoming forces and get within firing distance of the mainland of attack (United States). South Korea hunts for North's missing subs

3.) All eyes on South Korea, drop the satellite out of orbit, detonate. Take down the defense grid at home, cut the connection between domestic security and forces abroad. Take the KO shot from the short-range missile submarine.

Counter-Argument: It seems almost too simple, and if I — who am by no means a defense security head — can calculate such a plan-of-attack from behind a laptop, I'm sure some flags have been raised in the DoD.

The main thing to fear in this is our own hubris. Too many Americans see North Korea's small stature as their weakness when truly it's their biggest motive. Kim-Jung-Un (and the puppet masters behind him) know that a simple missile strike "aint gunna cut it" - if you're going to hit a country like the USA you need to use something big enough, timely enough to knock us down, and have the means to keep us from getting back up (i.e. allied reinforcement (domestic muslim-extremist forces), insurrection, bargaining chip).

If something will come from the North, something real, it HAS to be big. Kim-Jung-Un knows that, the American Media not so much...

This particular scenario would result in the glassification of North Korea via nuke subs at the least.

The US has contingencies for the severing of communications as in the above scenario.

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Combine the two and the USA cannot retaliate.

Please...the US has contingencies for just such an attack.

Really....do you think that a strategy developed on ATS would not have been covered 6 ways from sunday by the US military who have faced a potential nuclear scenario for the last 60 years? Really?

The US has components of the defense grid, as you put it, hardened to withstand a direct hit, let alone an EMP strike....the main effect of an EMP strike would be chaos and confusion at the public level. At the military level, the enemy had best bend over and kiss it goodbye.

Originally posted by bbracken677

This particular scenario would result in the glassification of North Korea via nuke subs at the least.

The US has contingencies for the severing of communications as in the above scenario.

Noted. Like I said, the plot seems too simple. However... theoretically, if you put all your cards into an invasion of another country, the stability of that POS state they have over there in Pyongyang hardly matters anymore.

We could drop 5 nukes on them if we wanted, if they've already hit a KO punch here at home they can leave their vitrified country behind them... The US would have a bigger problem on their hands that simply nuking NKorea wouldn't solve.

Edit: you couldn't be more correct in your assertion that anything talked about here on ATS has already been brought up in the situation room at some point; we must not glorify our intuition as not shared by those who get paid to make these decisions.

Originally posted by Daedalus
the most interesting part of this whole thing is that is is so close to the backstory for the game homefront...

in the backstory, kim jong il died, his son kim gong un took power, and began to threaten the world...ramped up his military, began attacking other countries....at the same time, there was massive economic turmoil, war in the middle east, oil shortage, and an epidemic, that made the U.S. military less effective...kinda like now(sans the epidemic and oil shortage), with the military spending cuts, and most of our really big naval assets in for repairs..and then, north korea hit the U.S. with a massive EMP from a satellite, and invaded...

it's extremely creepy.....this game came out BEFORE kim jong il died...so every time something happens with north korea that happened in the backstory for that game, i get a little creeped out...

Very cool and interesting post!! Thanks! I love it when fiction emulates reality emulates fiction!!

reply to post by ElohimJD

No power grid = no launch command center = no retaliation = no deffence grid = no stopping NK allies (China/Russia) from phase 2 of their plan.

That's where you're wrong. There are pre-standing orders if C&C is lost and nothing will affect that counter-attack (mostly from subs, but also silos). What's an EMP to a sub or silo? Nothing....

The US nuclear strategy is ENTIRELY built on having the capability of complete enemy destruction as a SECOND attack response to a first attack. Any enemy testing this will simply not be in existence to contemplate the folly.

reply to post by bbracken677

and then, north korea hit the U.S. with a massive EMP from a satellite, and invaded...

Invades how though? In what? Just which NK planes or boats are going to make it here (and even if they had the range, how would they get here unmolested?). Hence the fiction.

Originally posted by bbracken677

Originally posted by Daedalus
the most interesting part of this whole thing is that is is so close to the backstory for the game homefront...

in the backstory, kim jong il died, his son kim gong un took power, and began to threaten the world...ramped up his military, began attacking other countries....at the same time, there was massive economic turmoil, war in the middle east, oil shortage, and an epidemic, that made the U.S. military less effective...kinda like now(sans the epidemic and oil shortage), with the military spending cuts, and most of our really big naval assets in for repairs..and then, north korea hit the U.S. with a massive EMP from a satellite, and invaded...

it's extremely creepy.....this game came out BEFORE kim jong il died...so every time something happens with north korea that happened in the backstory for that game, i get a little creeped out...

Very cool and interesting post!! Thanks! I love it when fiction emulates reality emulates fiction!!

North Korea doesn't have the Gas to fight a war for 3 days.... the USA is the worlds leading Oil supplier now and their stupid satellite is monitored 24/7 and can be jammed shot down and we have satellites that can hack and take over other satellites

If you you want to know about an EMP threat ask yourself what kind of payload the US military shuttle carries.

reply to post by Plan2exist18

if they've already hit a KO punch here at home

Have you compared the blast radius of even the largest nukes or theoretical EMP devices to possible targets? The US is a BIG place. Do you know how many weapons would be needed to effectively do a lot of damage? Even assuming the worst case scenario? Even China doesn't have enough nukes to do even part of the job. (and of course, NK needs a delivery system to do this)

Check back a few pages too. ALL of this EMP BS is stemming from one source, a Dr. Peter Pry, who is trying to sell his book. Any NK EMP articles are all going to link back to this guy.

reply to post by penninja

their stupid satellite is monitored 24/7 and can be jammed shot down

Doesn't even need to be. Since day one, it is simply dead and tumbling in orbit. Which makes sense, as it was nothing but window dressing for a ballistic missile test in the first place....

reply to post by Plan2exist18


NPRK - David, USA - Goliath

they do not have to take us out, just light a fuse.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Plan2exist18

 

if they've already hit a KO punch here at home

Have you compared the blast radius of even the largest nukes or theoretical EMP devices to possible targets? The US is a BIG place. Do you know how many weapons would be needed to effectively do a lot of damage? Even assuming the worst case scenario? Even China doesn't have enough nukes to do even part of the job. (and of course, NK needs a delivery system to do this)

Check back a few pages too. ALL of this EMP BS is stemming from one source, a Dr. Peter Pry, who is trying to sell his book. Any NK EMP articles are all going to link back to this guy.

I agree, the US is a big place, and across the big place spans the massive arsenal of payload to deal with this kind of offensive. However, when I said the word "KO" punch, perhaps that is a poor phrase. In terms of a boxing match, I think North Korea would be more interested in a strategical plethora of "little jabs" to the vital organs of America's defense, instead of a single shot. Hit us in the right places and yes, I think the collateral damage could be enough.

North Korea isn't about fighting a year long war with us, it's about extermination. They don't have the resources to hold up in the former, but they appear to flaunt the capability (and will power) to attempt the latter.

Also, my sources on EMP knowledge do not come from Dr Peter Pry (as far as I know) and most of my knowledge comes from those who have studied it in detail like Brigitte Gabriel from ACT and their study on EMP's. Check it out at EMP ACT.

Originally posted by milano
reply to post by Plan2exist18

 

NPRK - David, USA - Goliath

they do not have to take us out, just light a fuse.

edit on 4/9/2013 by milano because: (no reason given)

Exactly. And don't underestimate others who hate America as well. Radical Islam has placed their investments into North Korea during this whole charade and have dollar signs in their eyes at the sight of occupied America.

Originally posted by bbracken677

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Combine the two and the USA cannot retaliate.

Please...the US has contingencies for just such an attack.

Really....do you think that a strategy developed on ATS would not have been covered 6 ways from sunday by the US military who have faced a potential nuclear scenario for the last 60 years? Really?

The US has components of the defense grid, as you put it, hardened to withstand a direct hit, let alone an EMP strike....the main effect of an EMP strike would be chaos and confusion at the public level. At the military level, the enemy had best bend over and kiss it goodbye.

You are confident, and that is good to an extent.

My father was a chief designer of the Star Wars program while serving as director of Aerospace engineering in the USAF and is the author of one of the three possible "worst case scenario" plans located in a safe beneath the white house for thermonuclear global war. He also designed the Titan IV and Titan V rockets as well as the Delta unit.

The president will choose which of the three plans in the moment they are needed.

I am saying this because I suggested this exact hypothetical scenario to him over dinner a few weeks ago and his response was "there is nothing we have that would be able to prevent that angle of attack should they pursue its ends".

If the designer of a military "worst case scenario" determined this would be a successful plot, is your confidence still as high? Maybe it is; and that's ok.

Yes, US submarines would be able to launch counter strikes locally, but if the electrical grid is down for more than a few minutes, the Star Wars satelite will loose it's tie to NORAD, there is built in code for Star Wars to operate without US communication in the event of communication severing for a prolonged period of time, involving a miriad of targets (Russian missle silos are also equipmed with similar coding; it is part of MAD). The code is not good for preventing nuclear esscalation... we'll leave it at that.

I hope for your sake your confidence in the US "hardened" deffense grid is accurate, and that an EMP would not affect it's wirings, because if it doesn't prevent it there are a lot of things that could go very wrong very quickly.

My hope however lies elsewhere.

God Bless,

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

No power grid = no launch command center = no retaliation = no deffence grid = no stopping NK allies (China/Russia) from phase 2 of their plan.

That's where you're wrong. There are pre-standing orders if C&C is lost and nothing will affect that counter-attack (mostly from subs, but also silos). What's an EMP to a sub or silo? Nothing....

The US nuclear strategy is ENTIRELY built on having the capability of complete enemy destruction as a SECOND attack response to a first attack. Any enemy testing this will simply not be in existence to contemplate the folly.

I agree.

Submarines will still have launch capibilities, so will silos. Both US and Russian silos have similar coding in the event of C&C loss.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


And what exactly are all our military forces going to be doing? You really think they aren't ready for an EMP, or don't have ways to defend against it? And there are forces all over the world that could either return home, or be defending areas they're stationed in. Our military won't be the totally helpless thing people portray even if we are hit by an EMP that manages to disable our C&C here.

All of this is really just so out there though...as the suggestion of NK having anything like this, is based on nothing but fantasy.