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U.S. might flunk Global Voting test!!

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posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by RedOctober90
I can understand now world resistance against America.. it wants to impose democracy on foreign peoples when it can barely impose democracy on itself.


lol
Can barely impose democracy on itself??
Care to explain?

....how many US elections have been marked by violence? 0

People have short term memories...they see the 2000 mess and think that's the norm. That was something that hasn't happened more than 3 times in our country's history. Our democratic process has and continues to work just fine. Some stuff needs to be changed, but there is no problem imposing democracy.




posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:39 PM
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But there is a massive problem imposing USA style democracy on people who do not want it.. and then bomb them to hell when they refuse.

Very wrong.. very very wrong.



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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good call RedOctober.....



posted on Nov, 2 2004 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
lol
Can barely impose democracy on itself??
Care to explain?

....how many US elections have been marked by violence? 0

People have short term memories...they see the 2000 mess and think that's the norm. That was something that hasn't happened more than 3 times in our country's history. Our democratic process has and continues to work just fine. Some stuff needs to be changed, but there is no problem imposing democracy.


Really? You should tell the Government that when they make the myriad choices for you, with no address to the issues before them.

The poisonous food, the corporate funds pouring into Washington, the Big Two, the economy or bust approach, the never ending growth of the Federal Government and military influence.

These are things you've had no control over, and will not subscribing to the lame duck parties.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 12:17 AM
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What amuses me most about the US elections actually has nothing to do with democracy or policy or anything. In fact it is the actual process, the whole atmosphere, the mud-slinging, the bickering, the endorsments, etc terribly funny stuff. For a country that is so normally forthright and in control, it seems it turns to a chaos of sorts when there is no one leader.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by RedOctober90
But there is a massive problem imposing USA style democracy on people who do not want it.. and then bomb them to hell when they refuse.

Very wrong.. very very wrong.


There is a difference between the people and the government )AKA DICTATOR) not wanting it.

Look at Afghanistan - great voter turn out, and they like Democracy.

Please name some countries where the people did NOT want Democracy?



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 12:44 AM
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Come on, admit it the voting system is funny!!

I heard in a report yesterday that some people in Florida queued for five hours in thirty-five degree (celsius) heat to vote. Talk about dedication. I voted a few weeks back in the Oz elections, I think I waited for a grand total of ten seconds, this considering I live in a marginal seat and voting is compulsory here.

Also, the reason for holding the elections on a Tuesday made me wonder how forward-thinking the US really is.

And another random thing, on Monday, the polling booths were supposedly short 2 million volunteers and the traning program had closed on Friday. Oops!



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:34 AM
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of course they found our elections confusing there was more than one box to check.


i actually like that each state holds it own election what could be more representative......a national ballot held by the feds....one place to go to for fixing. at least this way to fix the election you'd at least have to learn a few different techniques.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:57 AM
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lol
Can barely impose democracy on itself??
Care to explain?

....how many US elections have been marked by violence? 0

People have short term memories...they see the 2000 mess and think that's the norm. That was something that hasn't happened more than 3 times in our country's history. Our democratic process has and continues to work just fine. Some stuff needs to be changed, but there is no problem imposing democracy.


I don't think they're the ones who have short memories. Huge amounts of violence have been present in US elections or preceding them. Even after 1965 Voting Rights act when United States became real democracy (When people could freely vote in any state despite how much pigment they had in their skin) there were incidents like described below.

JONATHAN MYRICK DANIELS, an Episcopal Seminary student in Boston, had come to Alabama to help with black voter registration in Lowndes County. He was arrested at a demonstration, jailed in Hayneville and then suddenly released. Moments after his release, he was shot to death by a deputy sheriff.
AUGUST 20, 1965 -- Hayneville, Ala.

VERNON FERDINAND DAHMER, a wealthy businessman, offered to pay poll taxes for those who couldn’t afford the fee required to vote. The night after a radio station broadcasted Dahmer’s offer, his home was firebombed. Dahmer died later from severe burns.
JANUARY 10, 1966 -- Hattiesburg, Miss.

... There's probably more, care to search ?

If you wish to start counting deaths that happened before 1965 then please take a day off your job, or a week. Unless of course you don't consider nig*ers getting killed a crime...

And even in these elections there has been violence, though no deaths so far I quess...

www.oregonlive.com.../base/news/1098446448156040.xml

www.azdailysun.com...

There were plenty of stories in blogs about republicans getting their cars vandalized etc. I think it's good there are international observers who can help or tell the world if people start lynching republicans. (Help the republican I mean, not help with the lynching.)



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 02:01 AM
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Europe trying to tell us how to vote makes me laugh. Let them cry all they want Bush wins and thats that!



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:21 AM
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I agree wth the poster who mentioned that the election of the US president is actually 51 seperate elections. Of course voting standards and practices are different from state to state they are different states. As to how easy it was for them to observe I wasn't aware of any US state or federal laws requiring our electons to be easy for them to observe. Bottom line they were confused because they don't know the system. Naturally the US elections are going to be more complex our country is bigger and more diverse than any of thiers.
Just more proof the europeans don't get it.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall
The election rules vary state by state because we are a constitutionalized republic....

not a socialize, cookie-cutter country.

I agree with the first reponder...stay the F*** out of our business.


I second that!



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
Jemison for once i agree with your post... your election system needs overhauled and some new rules need put in place, and some older ones need replaced...

AMM, maybe if the US stopped interfering in other countries affairs, other countries wouldnt be so interested in yours... hmmm didnt think of that now did we... Could your defensiveness be born from denial?

Also if your election system is as flawed as the last two elections seem to be indicating... shouldnt you fix your own democracy before forcing democracy upon others (forced democracy... hmmm does that sound right to you?)


Hi, so you understand WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY. Democracies are terrible things that soon descend into the Ancient Athens style anarchy. Our founding fathers warned us against becoming one. We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC. The states choose the president. The people tell the states which candidate they think should get the vote but there is NO law saying that the state must follow the popular vote. There have been a few, very rare, cases where the state actually voted against its popular vote.

The mistake is that the U.N. expects us to be a Democracy, which we are not and it also expects that the STATES want them poking around because the Federal level invited them in. The reality is that the Feds have no jurisdiction to ask for U.N. observers anywhere.

Im sure the U.N. observers were pretty much despised by all the local poll workers and they were not given much help / guidance. Good for them!

States choose who they want, we the people choose our state leaders. This is how it works.

The election system works just fine here. there is always a about 1% margin of error on BOTH sides due to inconsistencies, but this system has served us well for over 200 years and we're not about to go making changes based on what outsider's tell us.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:10 AM
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The American voting methods probably flummox folks from other countries. But flunk a test? Nah.... We wouldn't care if it were a test. It's been this way in this country for, at least a few weeks (LOL), and we wouldn't change much if anything ... Except that our favorite son would win.

I never cease to be amazed that people, who grow up one way, in Europe or elsewhere, seem to know so much better than we, how our country should run. Funny that.

Problems? Yeah... We have our share, but I can't imagine how, or more importantly, why, we would switch out our methods to make you happy. Your methods haven't shown us much either. I think that it is all a matter of what you, and we, are used to.

Then... I'm probably one of those crazies, who thinks that the UN needs to be moved to Luxembourg.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:16 AM
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My personal feeling is that before you bring someone in to critique you, you should at least take the time to fix any known flaws. I just don't think we did that.

I don't understand why we can't go back to an old fashioned paper ballot and keep the voting methods simple and uniform. I really dislike not having a paper trail and I don't trust the machines.

I don't really care if the global monitors flunk us, my issue is more that nothing they are reporting is news to us and I think some of those issues should have been fixed sometime between 2000 and 2004.

Jemison



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
AMM, maybe if the US stopped interfering in other countries affairs, other countries wouldnt be so interested in yours... hmmm didnt think of that now did we... Could your defensiveness be born from denial?

Also if your election system is as flawed as the last two elections seem to be indicating... shouldnt you fix your own democracy before forcing democracy upon others (forced democracy... hmmm does that sound right to you?)


Um, who is the lone SuperPower on the planet? Who has the strongest economy on the planet? Whose citizens enjoy the greatest amount of freedom on the planet? Which country has the longest current standing government on the planet? Hmmmm.... Nuff said!



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by kozmo
Um, who is the lone SuperPower on the planet? Who has the strongest economy on the planet? Whose citizens enjoy the greatest amount of freedom on the planet? Which country has the longest current standing government on the planet? Hmmmm.... Nuff said!


Um, let me guess. China. Japan. Wow, number three is hard. Canada? France? You know, number four, I'll say England, although I believe it's actually Sweden or some Scandinavian country. Or it could be a European country, I really don't know. Sounds like you don't either.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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kozmo:

Um, who is the lone SuperPower on the planet? Who has the strongest economy on the planet? Whose citizens enjoy the greatest amount of freedom on the planet? Which country has the longest current standing government on the planet? Hmmmm.... Nuff said!


I'll take a swing at this one too.

China. China. Um, Sweden. Hmmm, that 4th is tough. Cuba has had Castro's government in power for a long long time, so I'll go Cuba.

Good questions.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:11 AM
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quote: "I agree with the first reponder...stay the F*** out of our business."

When the results of an election directly effect the rest of the world, it is no longer only 'OUR' business. Regardless of whatever you may think George W. Bush has 'acomplished' for our nation, regardless of his scraping together just over half of the electorate (by god only knows what means), the rest of the world considers George W. Bush to be a heartless, self-interested murderer, mentioned in the same breath as Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Robert Mogabe.

As proud as you may be of YOUR 'commander and cheif' this Butcher DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME. And what you dont realise is that god knows how many more innocent people will DIE as a result of this result; the world is OUTRAGED, and revenge will surely come. Its time to take on some of the responsibility for the complete disregard for human life this man has brought upon our beautiful nation.

You want to talk about liberation? Talk to my friend who's cousin was RAPED and KILLED in Iraq 12 months ago by US soldiers, hows that for Liberation? you say stay the # out of OUR business? Hows about AMERICA keeps its hands out of the rest of the WORLDS business? I am sad to say that the majority of the nation seem to have forgotten most of our Constitution that you hold so dear was founded on the sanctity of human life, and the importance of Love and Liberty. What Liberty is this?

It is a sad day to be an American



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 10:26 AM
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You want to talk about liberation? Talk to my friend who's cousin was RAPED and KILLED in Iraq 12 months ago by US soldiers, hows that for Liberation?


If that is true, and I hope that it's not but understand that it very well could be, I am sorry to hear about the tragic loss. What nationality was your friends cousin? Was this event in the media?

I can understand why you would be hostile and angry. But it's true that the media is only focusing on the negative in Iraq and not the positive. Yes it's a mess at the moment, but there ARE positive things happening. My neighbors son is over there at the moment and very discouraged that the soldiers good work is not being reported.

The most important and worthwhile work is always the most difficult. Success doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't happen without sacrifice. I hope that in the very near future the entire world will see that the U.S. had made a valuable and noble contribution in Iraq.

Jemison




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