Brits should not have a right to free speech

Originally posted by txinfidel
Why do I say this? Because a common theme on ATS is for some of them to but heads with us Americans who fought the british and won independence when they tried to take our guns away.

Yet some still persist that we should not have a right to bear arms. Even though they live in another country across the pond and have no clue as to the ways of American life.

Brits, you should not have a right to free speech, because all you do with your free speech is criticize americans over our right to bear arms, which is the only reason you or anyone else for that matter still has a right to free speech.

I say that you brits should relinquish your right to free speech just as you did your right to bear arms. Or just butt out.

Fair enough?

This has to be one of the worst threads i have read in a long time...seriously. I will address your points individually:

1) "Brits" shouldn't have their rights to free speech taken away simply because you oppose said statement.

2) The American revolution was not fought for the rights to bear arms (as you imply with "won independence when they tried to take our guns away)." Rather, it was due to taxation.

3) Outsiders (whether they be British or not) are allowed to state their opinions, even if they do not have any indication of the American way of life. Sometimes, aspects are clearer when looking in from the outside...if you know what i mean.

4) You are judging all "Brits" over some forum writers, and Piers Morgan (i would assume). Clearly, you are mistaken if you think that criticising America's right to bear arms is all they do with their rights to free speech.

5) That is a stupid statement.

6) No, it is not fair enough...

Daas.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


By placing trust, reliance in others for food, protection, responsible government, you are in essence ceding responsibility.

America believes strongly in individualism, personal responsibility, self-determination.

That translates (in the realm of gun ownership) to taking care of things ourselves.

We don't fear our neighbor.

We just don't trust others to do things we can do ourselves.

reply to post by beezzer


Thanks for the clarity, beezzer, but I'd feel safer if none of the public had guns.

If it came to civil unrest, " The Wild West " mentality would be resurrected.

( And that is, of course, just my personal opinion.)

Chaos and anarchy would reign. Every member of the public would also see
It their "Right " to dispense justice, as they saw fit.

I know the American Constitution is set in stone, but it was written a long time
ago and may need tinkering with to reflect life in the 21st, Century ? ( God forbid..! )

No, I know that isn't going to happen ! Peace...

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


The US Constitution is far younger than the Magna Carta. . . . .

But anyways, you certainly have a right to voice your opinion, regardless.

Cheers

reply to post by beezzer


Thanks for the polite exchange of views, beezzer. Good to discuss things without resorting to attack....

The English/British rights to free speech/bare arms predate America, so not sure how the spilling of English/British blood is Americans giving us free speech or maintaining our freedom to be bell ends if we so choose.

Simply put our right to bare arms come directly from some religious nuts taking away what was an unwritten freedom, but even when those rights where reclaimed in blood no one ran off to get guns, it is not a need, then or now..

But we do have our own sayings in that regard, my current avatar denotes one such expression "trust in God but keep your powder dry" which references a maxim purportedly given by Cromwell during the Civil War..

An interesting aspect of the Civil War is the Clubmen, while you had the Parliament Forces on one side and the Crown Forces on the other, there was a 3rd albeit crap force known as the clubmen, the peacable army that fought both sides.. now these guys formed up with, as the name say clubs and other such implements to stop either army coming into their area, taking stores or conscripting locals.

One clubmen flag read, "it you offer to plunder and take our cattel be assured we bid you to battel" rather long winded but I am sure you get the gist.. Not quite the "Don't tread on me flag" but certainly of a similar vane, but predating those feelings, so I am honestly not sure how Americans made that happen...

So these guys armed with no more in modern parlance than baseball bats stood against entire armies, armed with the latest weapons.. while they did get their arses handed to them on most occasions, even losing they could muster up 12,000 clubmen and the civil war was fought around them, so in essence their demands where met.. it also shows what we, as in the English/British people tend to do, we are not unarmed, we are always armed... especially with our humour

Which brings me to American rights to bare arms, I fully support them, just as I fully support my fellow compatriots to be voice their opinion.. and what I do not understand is Americans with their history of defending freedom of speech could turn into proponents of censor.. which for me is as bad as those who demand the removal of Americas guns.

But that is just my tuppence worth, while I might not have a gun to hand, I will, like ALL Brits and ALL Americans always be armed with my wits.. even if they are now middle aged and slightly dim.

Edit to add, due to slightly dim lights in my brain, that I personally feel we should be standing up for each others rights, not trying to force one another to lose rights that have already cost enough blood, I am sure when the establishment sees this they are laughing up their sleeves at us doing their work for them.

reply to post by txinfidel

Picture the following:
1. The back of my right hand on my right cheek, fingers pointing down
2. Left hand same.
3. Wiggle fingers
4. Say loudly "ooooooooo"

reply to post by yorkshirelad


Eeee ba gum ! Tha's funny, yorkshirelad ! Reet grand to see a good sense of humour, tha knows !

" Yorkshire born, Yorkshire bred, strong in arm, thick in head " that's me !

( Politely, Americans ignore this post, it won't make much sense ! )

reply to post by MrJohnSmith

Me too, although I'am a West Yorkshire lass

reply to post by sarahlm


Always good to hear from fellow Yorkshire people ! Stand up and be counted !

You guys are silly.

Of course I don't think that Brits should not have free speech. I do think however that they owe credit where credit is due.

Think about it.

I will fight to defend free speech as well as the right to bear arms.

Why? Not for me but for my kids and someday grand kids. I will put my own life on the line if need be. Not for myself, but to give my children a better chance at something I thought i would see in my lifetime, prosperity and freedom amid as beezer said self reliance.

I didn't write this thread to start a fight with those on the other side of the pond. I did write it to illustrate a point.

If you feel that you have a need to tell Americans how to live you have already lost the fight.

The only point of this thread is for a lit bulb to go off in your own head.

Most Americans are against the military complex establishment. We cherish free speech in all parts of the world and many ofus would put our lives on the line to defend it.

To hear somebody tell us to relinquish those rights is called surrender. That is leaving our next generation and your next generation into captivity.

Why Brits if you cherish your right to free speech do you feel the need to challenge our right to bear arms? It is the only thing keeping it a float. It is counter productive if you cherish free speech to challenge our right to bear arms.

The Arab spring is a good example of what I am talking about here
While Egypt thought they were doing the right thing they ushered in a new kind of tyranny and did so at their own will.

Point is if somewhere on the earth their is not a populace capable of fighting back there will only be tyranny so say goodbye to free speech and every other freedom.

Or embrace our differences and learn from them.

We are all human and I think when it all comes down to it we want the same things. So why do you want to fight us on this? We are opposed to the us government invading foreign lands and making wars with other nations unless they are a serious threat. The us gov feels otherwise however. But if you fight with us in this arena you are playing into their hands and they will dominate us in every arena. Is that such a hard concept to grasp?

If it weren't for common citizens bearing arms things would be a lot worse.

Just to be clear. Most of us law abiding citizens don't have the same interests as our government, we have the same interests as you. So please don't fight with us as we are all on the same side.

reply to post by txinfidel


Thank God you are here to enlighten us. However, isn't knowingly talking crap against the T&C of this site?

And this wiki page seems to go against your opinion that the US isn't really a war mongering nation or that nobody really likes the army.

Popular opinion in the United States on the invasion of Iraq

reply to post by txinfidel

but their are many here who like to voice their opinion about how our country should change our laws.

And you've never voiced your opinion here on the Middle East, religion, gays, Japan's nuclear mess, North Korea's insanity...?

We Americans must allow and promote Freedom of speech everywhere in the world, regardless of whether or not we agree with what they're saying.

Originally posted by txinfidel
You guys are silly.

Of course I don't think that Brits should not have free speech.

Maybe you should read your own thread title.

Why Brits if you cherish your right to free speech do you feel the need to challenge our right to bear arms? It is the only thing keeping it a float.

If that's all you have keeping things afloat then you have already lost your freedom and supporting a right to use guns is absolutely pointless. You are fighting FOR the government you trust so little by not allowing yourselves to listen and learn from others in this world due to fear. You are puppets fighting to keep your strings thinking they are your freedom.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by beezzer

 

If it came to civil unrest, " The Wild West " mentality would be resurrected.

( And that is, of course, just my personal opinion.)

Chaos and anarchy would reign. Every member of the public would also see
It their "Right " to dispense justice, as they saw fit.

exactly . people always panic people do stupid things when they panic shoot first ask later

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


Not from Yorkshire but I have lived tis side of t'ill for long enough....Iam gonna sort out either a big drink or a camping /drinking weekend for all us up t'north ATS members soon watch this space .


Oh and well said all

Come on, now. If you start telling people in other countries what rights they should or should not have then you are no better than Piers Morgan.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
Come on, now. If you start telling people in other countries what rights they should or should not have then you are no better than Piers Morgan.

Least we now have a standard where if your nationality is not the same as the country you want to criticize then you can't say anything...job done...wipe hands and walk out the door

Originally posted by beezzer
By placing trust, reliance in others for food, protection, responsible government, you are in essence ceding responsibility.

America believes strongly in individualism, personal responsibility, self-determination.

You all make this claim, but in reality you are just as reliant on your government as the "Brits" are.

It's nothing but ego talk make. Americans are no more individuals than anyone else is, it's just an illusion created by your media. America is actually far more suppressed culturally than Britain is. America is far less tolerant of differences to the perceived norm than Britain is.

What other country has an equivalent to "un-American"? Whatever that is supposed to mean. I have never heard anyone say that is "un-British" lol. You suppress yourself with your silly perceived ideas of normality.

BTW I lived in England for 24 years, born and raised, and 25 years in the US.

reply to post by txinfidel


and you choose to post this on ATS which was co founded by an English man...