More US Deployments

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

 

The number of Chinese troops on the border is more a "refugee control force" than anything else. They might be their best troops, but there are only 30,000 or so on the border. That's not going to do much, even with the planes involved.

I just don't buy that story they are trying to feed us since they moved in before Kim started raising hell. I guess we will see but China does have a defense pact with the nut so that doesn't look good anyway. Its late and im off for some shut eye. Pray for Peace but if not then I hope God lets us stomp this butcher quickly.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

First off, Mirvs are not going to hit a moving target

Subs can't move anywhere while they are launching... close will do.

and not one that is diving to 800 feet

After it fires? How long you figure to fire a salvo then dive, and run to 800 feet and several miles?

Second, Radar is for above the water lol.

Above your head, lol.

By time any enemy missile gets there they are going to be gone unless they have something very close by.

Time to first target is their life expectancy. Did you under stand that? It doesn't matter if far out to sea or under their harbor. The first launch signature of a hostile SLBM prompts their target to launch. We should ask them to wait to be destroyed just for you?

Especially if one of the Cruise missile boats or an Aegis Destroyer is near by. 150 Tomahawks will sink every thing on the surface pretty quick let alone the air defenses of the Aegis Destroyers. Not to mention our attack subs protecting the boomers and surface fleet, witch their will be many, Hunter killer subs. The only Navy that stands a chance is Russia and they just don't have enough to fight our Navy anymore.

Do you make this up as you go?

And if one goon starts yappin about the Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of our battle group I am going to scream.

The carrier commander screamed too, I'll bet.

By the way your sub driver is told where to turn the wheel by a Captain who gets his info from a guy like ME!!

Riiight... tell me another.

umm, how do you know the sub was actually undetected? we should announce the system capabilities?

reply to post by FlyingFox

For starters...

www.dailymail.co.uk... ml

reply to post by FlyingFox

And this one about the Russian Kilo and Chinese Song class quieter subs, their numbers and deployment.

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

reply to post by intrptr


You know, when you lay out the points and counter points that way? I can't help but agree with the ...odd nature of them. Indeed. Star for you on a very logical set of counters on this one.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Thanks Wrabbit. My best counter to all the bravado about floating boats in others peoples oceans far way is this one.

reply to post by bloodreviara


I just returned from Russia, and if you think we have it bad in the US, the economy over their is a disaster...their military is for the most part dealing with broken antiquated equipment and of the officers corp that I saw they are pretty out of shape...there is no mood for war that I found from the people their...so I do not believe (my opinion) that Russia is any kind of threat...the corruption runs wild from the Politicians in DUMA to the average police officer on the street...here at least most large scale corruption is limited to DC ; ) and our police are not corrupt at least 99% of them that I have dealt with in my life are not...

MarineSniper

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Iwinder

 

The big thing with the DF-21 is finding the carrier to begin with. If they're far enough out to sea (which is the primary purpose of the missile), and black out everything, then they're going to be extremely hard to find to target. But at the same time, now they're going to have to rely on Air Force tanker support to get their strike packages in to their targets, which ties up more US assets.

This is not directed at you but since it was brought up I thought I would explain. The whole DF-21 story is BS. A Ballistic missile can only hit Fixed targets so it can not be a ICBM. Carriers move and quickly as they are faster than most people think. In combat they also zig zag too to not be tracked so easy. Unless a Nuke is parked right next to or on the flight deck of the Carrier she is designed to take it and keep cruising. The Chinese Silkworm missiles are the only things our Navy needs to worry about and that is where Aegis comes in with its control of fleet defense.

The Aegis system on our destroyers will automatically track 100 targets and take control of every weapon system on each ship and sub in the Battle group to defeat any threats while dealing out offensive fire at the same time. It was designed to counter the Russian cruise missile threats as that is pretty much all they use. In other words, unless the system craps out then our Navy has nothing to worry about with its latest upgrades in defensive weapons that make Sunburn and such not so deadly. Let alone a high flying incoming missile that the SM-2 or SM-3 will easily knock out.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Thanks Wrabbit. My best counter to all the bravado about floating boats in others peoples oceans far way is this one.

Not hard to do since they are our ally and train with us all year long. That is why they do this, to learn new tactics from each other.

reply to post by intrptr


So I guess we should have sank it right? I have a hundred dollars that says it was forced to the surface by our attack subs. Don't believe every thing you read as I know for a fact that, in that case it was 100 percent propaganda for more money to our Navy.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

All the tactics of diesel boats in history are available for anyone to read. It is a complex theatre of combat. My bet is that is why they chose to build modern versions of the things. Because they work.

The Chinese. And the Koreans,. Oh, and the Russians. Guess we will have to wait and see if it is possible to win WWII all over again in the Pacific, huh? Because that style of warfare is what we are talking about. How America defeated the vastly superior Japanese Navy with the help of Diesel Submarines. There are about a 1000 books written by the men who were there.

reply to post by intrptr


One of the reasons they built modern diesel boats is because they're cheaper, easier, and considered much safer than nuke boats. Even though there has never been a reactor accident with a nuke boat, a lot of people don't like the potential for an accident and environmental damage it could create.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Myself and a colleague have been watching with interest the events in North Korea and the military build-up across the pacific and Korean peninsula. There are a few questions which have sprung up which may have been covered already in other threads but here goes anyway:

1. Where are N.Korea getting all those nukes to test? .... And how many more are there?
2. Where are all the N.Korean Electric Stealth Submarines and who's tracking them?
3. Who in their right mind thinks N.Korea hasn't got the technology and intelligence to offer a serious counter-threat to an American attack? .... Americans? ...
4. Is America using the Korean 'threat' to mask the deployment of more troops to the middle east?
5. Will Psy do a 'Pyong-yang' style video and unite the koreas with music?

Feel free to answer. Don't be too harsh it's my first post

reply to post by EA006


#2. The long range North Korean subs are mostly older Russian designs, some modified by China to improve them. The others are mini-subs designed to operate close to shore, where it's extremely difficult to track any kind of submarine due to the water depth. The Sang-O class can go 1500 miles, but only has a top speed of 9 knots. The Yeono (or Yono) class is capable of 550 miles on the surface, and 50 miles submerged. The Romeo is rumored to be in the process of being retired in favor of the Sang-O.

reply to post by EA006

1. Where are N.Korea getting all those nukes to test? .... And how many more are there?

They make them, but they don't have a whole lot of output. Not very many. We can determine a good guess based on many variables, and there are different types of "nukes", so depends on what you mean. You need to be more specific. Nuclear devices, likely less than a dozen. Any nuclear missiles? Every analyst will say no. Which means they need a delivery system (boat or plane).

2. Where are all the N.Korean Electric Stealth Submarines and who's tracking them?

Hard to track diesel electric subs, but they don't have the range needed to threaten the US directly. However, they can threaten allies, but after surfacing and firing, they'd pretty much be toast. Of course, they don't have missile systems, so really only a threat to naval assets.

3. Who in their right mind thinks N.Korea hasn't got the technology and intelligence to offer a serious counter-threat to an American attack? .... Americans? ...

A caveman with a knife can still kill a man, even if that man does shoot him dead. No, but they can do some heavy damage to our allies. The bigger threat is a nuclear terror style attack on either our allies, or smuggled into the US.

4. Is America using the Korean 'threat' to mask the deployment of more troops to the middle east?

One wouldn't exactly mask the other. That kind of thing is still highly visible, and are two very different logistical locations to deliver troops.

5. Will Psy do a 'Pyong-yang' style video and unite the koreas with music?

What would the video be about? They are two completely different people at this point, and have little in common. Would have to be something that appeals to both peoples. Though I doubt Psy will ever duplicate the success of Gangnum Style...

reply to post by Zaphod58

It's not just the B-1s, it's EVERYTHING. It's the B-2s flying from Whiteman, it's the E-6Bs flying from Tinker, it's the B-52s already there, it's the things I can't mention here. I'm putting the entire picture together, and I'm not liking what I'm seeing come together. The last time I saw something like this coming together, within a month or two we were in a war. This is shaping up exactly like it did then, and it's a picture I was hoping we wouldn't see again for a long time.

I tend to agree...if it is just us responding to rhetoric, we've certainly gone far and above the steps I'd thought we would have taken. The kind of things that are happening are really pointing to actual war very soon. I'm betting that carrier isn't just going to "pass through" on the way to Hawaii either.

Not sure if this update has been posted.....

From the blogger that The Aviationist article was based on deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com

Despite reports that are beginning to circulate on the Internet, the U.S. is not sending B-1 Lancer heavy bombers to its massive Pacific Ocean base on Guam.


"They're not at Guam," a U.S. Pacific Air Forces spokeswoman just told Killer Apps. "They definitely didn't even stop through."

----------
B-1s, however, often deploy to Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean or to a base on the Persian Gulf, where they are used to provide air support to troops in Afghanistan.

"They're pretty concerned with the desert, so they're pretty busy over there," added the spokeswoman when asked if the B-1s ever deploy to Anderson as part of the Air Force's "continuous bomber presence" mission.

(article on killerapps)


And there was this note on the blog

Editors note: A source at Dyess has notified this author that two of the fight of seven (spares) B-1Bs I monitored a couple of nights ago have returned to the base. The others have not. He could not tell me where the five eventually landed at. In the statement above "not sending" is ambiguous at best. Maybe it should have been re-worded as "didn't send or hasn't sent." - Steve Douglass

reply to post by Gazrok


Yeah, I have the feeling they're going to "require maintenance" and have to make an "emergency" stop in the area that oh look, just happens to coincide with the latest missile test by North Korea.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by intrptr

One of the reasons they built modern diesel boats is because they're cheaper, easier, and considered much safer than nuke boats.

You left out the "quieter" part.

Even though there has never been a reactor accident with a nuke boat, a lot of people don't like the potential for an accident and environmental damage it could create.

Especially if they start shooting at each other with thermonuclear missiles.