A question for people who are pro-abortion

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by resoe26

I know it's not 'considered' murder by the judicial system. but define murder and you'll see what is wrong with "abortion".

Definition of MURDER

1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2a : something very difficult or dangerous
b : something outrageous or blameworthy

www.merriam-webster.com...

The key word is "unlawfully". At this point in time it is not unlawful to have an abortion, so it is not murder.

uh der da der.
No sh** sherlock.
--We all know it is not "unlawful". But shouldn't it be?
taking someones life is taking someones life. There is no explanation in the world that can change that. call it homicide or whatever. You are still taking someones life.

But then again, by the looks of your avatar and background (rebel flag) I don't think you'd understand that.
back to der da der

ya know what, if they really wanted people to stop having babies or whatever, or "making mistakes", then you'd think they would outlaw abortion.

People would then think twice before having intercourse without a condom or being on birth control, because there would be NO WAY OUT of it.
---People would then be more careful. But NOOOOOOO.....
Lets be pro abortion. That way medical companies can keep profiting off of thier sold medical supplies.
--How would you like to be an abortion doctor??

reply to post by resoe26

abortions already are 'outlawed' in many parts of the world
not so surprisingly, 2 lives are lost every 7 minutes via an illegal abortion, so, why is it wrong to save one of those 2 lives via a lawful abortion ?

I remember my friend told me a recent scandal in his country, where in some school real pictures of aborted fetuses were shown in sex ed classes and real-sized dolls of fetuses after 2 and 3 weeks were sent around in the class to show that these actually are real baby.

My biology teacher painted quite a dirty picture in my mind, when she described the methods of abortion. I highly doubt many kids in my class would ever want to do abortion after that

I personally would have nothing against such shocking pictures were made obligatory in every school. These may be shocking although this is the reality. Why ignore it? I doubt all of the pro-abortion people would actually stay on the same opinion, if they actually watched the horrifying pictures and learned more about the development of the fetus + the methods of abortion with pictures.

I would rather raise and love the unplanned baby, even if it would ruin my future plans, than ever have my girlfriend do an abortion. After all, I would be responsible for making it in the first place and it is simply my responsibility for my actions.

I have never done drugs, because of the pictures I saw in internet (at around 8-9) of the real-life over-dosed junkies. It was horrifying and every time I have been offered to do exctacy or coke (which some of my friends sometimes do), these pictures come to my mind and that alone is enough to keep me away from it.

reply to post by James1982


Bottom line is there are simply not enough resources to support all the unwanted children created by the selfish acts of others.

IMO failing to take proper precaution in the "heat of the moment" and then having to take a life because it might make your own inconvenient is irresponsible and selfish.

However, I also believe that society as a whole benefits from the option being available. Unwanted/unplanned children suffer economically, mentally and develop slower and are a drain on the public coffers.

The morality of the issue is not one for the collective to debate but a rather personal one for the mother to make. If she makes the decision and there is some all knowing creator with whom we all must reconcile our actions at some point then let that remain between them and not a burden for the collective to enforce and regulate. We simply don't have the resources.

We underwrite enough of other people's stupid decisions as it is let's not take this one away so we can shell out even more money.

reply to post by Honor93

can you provide any proof of these so-called "full-term", elective abortions that are performed legally ? (hint: 3rd trimester is NOT full-term)

No, I am saying that it is legal.
There are states where there is no restriction on the number of weeks at which an abortion can be performed.
I had made the point earlier that is is legal to perform an abortion on a full term fetus. You told me that it was illegal to do so. Just because something is morally repugnant doesn't mean that it isn't legal.
Per Dr. Pendergraft you cited a link with him earlier, I believe)

There are some that will not allow abortions to be carried out except in a hospital after 12 weeks pregnant, and other states where there is no hospital requirement and no restriction on the number of weeks an abortion can be performed.

latetermabortion.net

Originally posted by resoe26

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by resoe26

I know it's not 'considered' murder by the judicial system. but define murder and you'll see what is wrong with "abortion".

Definition of MURDER

1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2a : something very difficult or dangerous
b : something outrageous or blameworthy

www.merriam-webster.com...

The key word is "unlawfully". At this point in time it is not unlawful to have an abortion, so it is not murder.

uh der da der.
No sh** sherlock.
--We all know it is not "unlawful". But shouldn't it be?
taking someones life is taking someones life. There is no explanation in the world that can change that. call it homicide or whatever. You are still taking someones life.

But then again, by the looks of your avatar and background (rebel flag) I don't think you'd understand that.
back to der da der

Oh, your right! Because I have a rebel flag on my avatar, I must be a red neck. Uh der da der!

You said "define murder and you'll see what is wrong with "abortion", I defined it and abortion is not murder. It may be morally wrong or whatever your argument is, but it is NOT murder!

I personally don't agree with abortion, but I don't think that the federal government should be involved in it. Once the supreme court has deemed it legal or illegal then it should be up to the states. I think that people need to think about their arguments a little more before they open their mouths. This is a perfect example!

Originally posted by resoe26
ya know what, if they really wanted people to stop having babies or whatever, or "making mistakes", then you'd think they would outlaw abortion.

People would then think twice before having intercourse without a condom or being on birth control, because there would be NO WAY OUT of it.
---People would then be more careful. But NOOOOOOO.....
Lets be pro abortion. That way medical companies can keep profiting off of thier sold medical supplies.
--How would you like to be an abortion doctor??

If that were true, the birth rate in Africa would be lower than ours and we would see all of the commercials asking to aid the children starving in Africa. Again, your argument is flawed!

If you're opposed to abortion, don't have one.

If you're a male and opposed to abortion don't have sex with someone outside of marriage. (PS make sure you agree to have kids before you get married.)

Originally posted by resoe26
ya know what, if they really wanted people to stop having babies or whatever, or "making mistakes", then you'd think they would outlaw abortion.

People would then think twice before having intercourse without a condom or being on birth control, because there would be NO WAY OUT of it.
---People would then be more careful. But NOOOOOOO.....
Lets be pro abortion. That way medical companies can keep profiting off of thier sold medical supplies.
--How would you like to be an abortion doctor??

I hate to tell you, but, abortion has been here for a long time....roe v. wade stopped women from dying when they had illegal "back-alley" abortions....already 4 states under republican control have outlawed abortion. republicans want more women to die from botched abortions, or if they live, to take them away from the rest of their families and throw them into prison, like they did before roe v. wade....

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by resoe26

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by resoe26

I know it's not 'considered' murder by the judicial system. but define murder and you'll see what is wrong with "abortion".

Definition of MURDER

1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2a : something very difficult or dangerous
b : something outrageous or blameworthy

www.merriam-webster.com...

The key word is "unlawfully". At this point in time it is not unlawful to have an abortion, so it is not murder.

uh der da der.
No sh** sherlock.
--We all know it is not "unlawful". But shouldn't it be?
taking someones life is taking someones life. There is no explanation in the world that can change that. call it homicide or whatever. You are still taking someones life.

But then again, by the looks of your avatar and background (rebel flag) I don't think you'd understand that.
back to der da der

Oh, your right! Because I have a rebel flag on my avatar, I must be a red neck. Uh der da der!

You said "define murder and you'll see what is wrong with "abortion", I defined it and abortion is not murder. It may be morally wrong or whatever your argument is, but it is NOT murder!

I personally don't agree with abortion, but I don't think that the federal government should be involved in it. Once the supreme court has deemed it legal or illegal then it should be up to the states. I think that people need to think about their arguments a little more before they open their mouths. This is a perfect example!

You personally don't agree with abortion.... That it possibly in your eyes is morally wrong.
That is my arguement. That it is morally wrong.
Sorry bout the rebel flag thing, made me chuckle though.

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by resoe26
ya know what, if they really wanted people to stop having babies or whatever, or "making mistakes", then you'd think they would outlaw abortion.

People would then think twice before having intercourse without a condom or being on birth control, because there would be NO WAY OUT of it.
---People would then be more careful. But NOOOOOOO.....
Lets be pro abortion. That way medical companies can keep profiting off of thier sold medical supplies.
--How would you like to be an abortion doctor??

If that were true, the birth rate in Africa would be lower than ours and we would see all of the commercials asking to aid the children starving in Africa. Again, your argument is flawed!

You cannot compare Africa to the US (your arguement is flawed)
How is it that Africa and the US are alike in any way at all?

reply to post by butcherguy

and i've sugested that it is legal in ONE location, only.
why do you avoid that part of the discussion ?

and this is what i've asked for proof of, yet you refuse to provide any.

There are states where there is no restriction on the number of weeks at which an abortion can be performed.

hint: DC is not a state.

again, show me proof of any state that permits & performs full-term abortions, lawfully.
(and that excludes health of the mother/fetus)

yes, i linked to Dr Pendergraft, and even he has to GO TO DC to perform those that qualify.

so, rather link to the source i provided, please, provide your own.

and btw, thanks for agreeing that full-term = 38 weeks
i see since your first argument failed so miserably, you've picked up a new bone and will probably chew it to pieces, have fun.

reply to post by James1982


First of all, no one is ever "PRO-abortion". They support a woman's right to choose whether or not she should have a child or not. They do not support the act of abortion itself.

Second of all, it all comes down to freedom. Why is it ok for government to tell a woman what she can and cannot do but it is not ok for government to say, ask gun owners for deeper background checks?

You cannot complain about government intrusion into your life while supporting government intrusion into the uteruses of women in states that seek to restrict abortion, access to birth control, etc.

As for the argument of whether it is murder or not? Do pro-life people care about those on the death penalty? Those who die in war everyday? Where are the pro-life people when the mothers of kids who didn't get aborted, need a little help to raise those adorable kids?

Respectfully, I do not know when a fetus becomes a baby. And I think that is the problem. If there was definitive evidence to show us that yes at the time of conception a human being is created. Or No, at the time of 6 months it is now human. Then this debate would not need to be debated. I know there are many many facts and opinions that say one way or another. And here in lies the problem. When a woman goes in to get an abortion, she does not know the answer for certain. All she knows is that she is pregnant and cannot have the baby. Does she think...oh this is a human being? Probably not, because she does not know either. Yes, I know that some clinics show films etc. but a woman in that predicament is not thinking clearly all she can think of is let this crisis be over. And also, for some woman, maybe not all, they live with this the rest of their lives.

For me I try to understand what others go through. I want my freedom, yes. But freedom always comes with a price. For some women that I have personally known, they grieve for the unborn child, and remember when that child was suppose to be born. Is it right? Is it wrong? That is between them and their Deity.

reply to post by VaterOrlaag

Where are the pro-life people when the mothers of kids who didn't get aborted, need a little help to raise those adorable kids?

They are very much in the public eye and they are much maligned. They advertize what they do and their phone number is listed.
They are numerous.
One is really big and is mentioned a lot on ATS.
They care for unwed mothers, they support mothers that want to keep their children, but would otherwise have to give them up because they don';t have the financial ability to care for them. They operate adoption agencies that place children in homes where people actually want them.

I am really surprised that you have never heard of the Catholic Church.

As for the argument of whether it is murder or not? Do pro-life people care about those on the death penalty? Those who die in war everyday?

I don't know? Do they? How do you know that they don't care? You do know that the Catholic Church opposes the death penalty, right?

Does the argument work both ways? If I don't care if a woman has a first or second trimester abortion(I don't) does that mean I can kill anyone that I want too?

reply to post by Honor93

hint: DC is not a state.

Hint: STATE is not STATES.
Try Maryland. (and a host of other states where it can be done where the health of the mother is in question)

You can abort until the head pops out in a normal delivery.
Here is a link to the Maryland law SB 162.

I am asking this:

Do you think it is right to kill a full term fetus by delivering it backwards and snipping the neck with scissors?

i see since your first argument failed so miserably, you've picked up a new bone and will probably chew it to pieces, have fun.

Yes, you totally avoided the original question and went down the road of.... HOW LONG IS A PREGNANCY? It was not the point and you know that.

Originally posted by Cabin
I remember my friend told me a recent scandal in his country, where in some school real pictures of aborted fetuses were shown in sex ed classes and real-sized dolls of fetuses after 2 and 3 weeks were sent around in the class to show that these actually are real baby.

A foetus at 2-3 weeks is very far from being like a 'real baby'. It's basically a small collection of cells.

reply to post by James1982



1: Would you have any problem feeding this aborted fetus to a cat or dog?

If it were a survival situation where there is no other food source then absolutely not. No matter what it was, it is dead flesh now.

2: Would you have any problem stomping this aborted fetus into tiny bits under the heel of your boot?

Why would anyone want do that? You are obviously going for shock value here...

3: Would you have any problem throwing this aborted fetus into the air and shooting at it with a shotgun?

Again, who is the sick one here? These questions do not make sense.


I think it doesn´t make sense to answer the rest of the questions.

The point is this. I personally haven´t develop a conscious sense of self until AFTER I was born. I know the early days are fuzzy, but that is how it is.

The bottom line is that I know people who haven´t aborted and got pregnant rather early. In MOST of those cases that wasn´t really beneficial for them or the child or the society they live in.

I know people who made he decision to abort in order to continue to prepare themselves and their surroundings better. And they were mostly better off.

Does that make the abortion morally ok? I don´t really know.

What I do know though is that mother nature literally doesn´t give a rats ass, as what we can see in nature is much much more cruel than abortions are. Baby animals are eaten and die horribly every single day.

We should mabye take a lesson there. Sure life is precious. But maybe there is a bit more to it than we understand right now. Maybe this biological body is not as important as we think.

reply to post by butcherguy

no, you cannot use the "health of the mother" as an excuse when you want to
you already declared the 'health of the mother' was an acceptable exception.

so, which of these providers (in ONE state that you listed ) will perform late term abortions on request (you know, elective) as you claim happens all the time, in many states.

oh btw, Maryland does NOT permit such without 'health concerns' like you're trying to imply.
example ...

www.breitbart.com...
it was reported Morbelli had learned there was some abnormality with her unborn child and chose to have an abortion 33 weeks into her pregnancy.

i have answered that question 3 times already, i will not indulge you again.

and although i've asked and been ignored, i'll ask you again, what proof can you provide that what you describe is 'standard practice' ??

that was your argument, not mine.
i told you the truth, you disputed it for pages and then moved the goal posts
so, are you going to answer the above question (prove it's standard practice) or move the posts again?