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The mob killing of Corporals Wood and Howes, March 1988 in Belfast.

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posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 07:26 AM
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First of all I have got to say I don't really know which Forum this best fits in, General Conspiracies due to the unkown nature of Corporals Wood and Howes mission or Social Issues and Civil Unrest, so can the Mods please move to wherever they think it best suits.

Just over 25 years ago two British soldiers were brutally murdered after getting caught up in the funeral cortege of an IRA terrorist.

I can vividly remember watching footage of this and being horrified and disgusted at the ferocity and almost animal pack like nature of the mob as they went about brutalising and torturing the two soldiers and eventually executing them.

This link is to an article that publishes an open letter from a Belfast woman whose mother witnessed the events to a father of one of the soldiers who was murdered.

www.longkeshinsideout.co.uk...

It is a moving account and gives an insight into the reality of everyday life many suffered during The Troubles under the paramilitaries.

The author of the letter was so moved that she named her own child after the two soldiers;


‘As an Irish Catholic, I am so very proud of them. They taught me the meaning of true Englishmen. They were strong, brave, honourable men who gave their lives for those who killed them.’


In addition the Catholic priest who tried in vain to save the soldiers has also recently spoken for the first time publicly about the killings.

Father Alec Reid reveals how he tried to save two British soldiers killed in one of the most shocking episodes of the Troubles

It's another moving and graphic account by a man who was instrumental in bringing about The Good Friday Agreement.

There are many aspects to this story, far too many to cover in one post without making it unduly long and possibly unreadable.
The Gibraltar assassinations, Michael Stone's attack, the senseless killings by both sets of para-militaries and their brutal exploitation of their respective communities, the abject failure and betrayal of the British Army in failing to make any rescue attempt and abandonment of two of their own soldiers and the feral nature of 'the mob'.

But the things that stand out for me are the amazing strength and fortitude of the two soldiers under what most have been unimaginably horrific circumstances and the courage and strength of Nuala Cassidy's family and Father Reid.

Even in the most darkest of times the strength of human nature comes through.

It is time the British government revealed the reasons the two soldiers were in the vicinity and all it know's about the brutal slayings.

Why would anyone want to see a return of The Troubles?
The very small minority who are now working towards such an end must be resisted at all costs.
edit on 17/4/13 by JAK because: URL format




posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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Well first i think it was a disgrace that the army had a helicopter above watching everything, Complete with gunner...And did NOTHING to save them. They could have fired flares into the crowd or fired warning shots. But they did not. I used to think that they were maybe sas operatives undercover. But im sure they would have tried to shoot there way out. Maybe it just was bad judgement by the two. In the wrong place at the wrong time. It is a truly sad case though in the height of the northern ireland conflict. Senseless violence on both sides in the name of god.
edit on 29-3-2013 by TheDoctor46 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by TheDoctor46
 


Yes, the failure of the military to do anything to try and rescue two of their own is inexcusable.

I know tensions were very high at the time - the 'nationalist' community were angered over The Gibraltar killings, (also known as Murder On The Rock and Operation Flavius), and the attack by UDA member Michael Stone on the mourners at the funeral of the IRA members who were killed in Gibraltar.

Various reasons have been given for the soldiers presence in the vicinity of the funeral cortege including monitoring the activities of known Republican terrorists and prevention of another attack by Loyalist para-militaries.

I can't believe for one minute that the soldiers just blundered into the cortege by mistake and the restraint, discipline and courage shown by the soldiers during their ordeal suggests some sort of specialist training.
If the soldiers were on some sort of 'special op' then it's possible they had been told that if they were caught there would be no rescue.
But no matter what, essentially the British Army abandoned two of their own to the raging mob rather than further escalate an already volatile situation.

Regardless, given The Good Friday Agreement and the subsequent early release of countless terrorist murderers from both sides, including those convicted of the soldiers murder, surely it's about time the government paid both the soldiers and their families some respect and released all the details surrounding the murders.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Totally agreed my friend. It certainly was a mystery why the soldiers ended up there. Our government like you say owe there families answers at the very least. Good post btw. Not heard of anything of this for quite a while



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by TheDoctor46
 




Not heard of anything of this for quite a while


It's as if the all concerned just want to conveniently ignore or forget about this whole episode - neither the Republicans or Loyalists come out of it very well and neither does the British military.

Sure the British Army may have some things to hide but It may also be that some of those involved went on to become actively involved in the peace process and then entered mainstream politics - would opening up old wounds harm the move towards 'normality' in Ulster?

If so do the interests of the families and the need for transparency outweigh the peace process?
A dificult one and without all the facts one that I'm unable to give an honest answer to.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
It's as if the all concerned just want to conveniently ignore or forget about this whole episode - neither the Republicans or Loyalists come out of it very well and neither does the British military.


Well obviously. You yourself post this:


Originally posted by Freeborn
Why would anyone want to see a return of The Troubles?
The very small minority who are now working towards such an end must be resisted at all costs.


I think it's obviously hypocritical and/or stupid of you to wave these bloody shirts around on Good Friday and act like you're doing it for anything other than jingoistic loyalist grandstanding.

...

And you know what, here's something you need to accept: the protestants are losing Northern Ireland in no more than a few decades, by entirely peaceful means. The glory days of the British Empire are long gone and the UK itself is crumbling. They won't even hang on to SCOTLAND and you are trying to stir crap up about Northern Ireland of all places.

Stirring up unrest is now obviously, entirely in the interests of the protestants/UK/loyalists/orange whatever you want to call thems. Or at least, in the interests of the idiotic ones who just can't accept what history is deciding for them, and see stirring up trouble as a last ditch way to try and scare people into clinging to the UK.

The Irish now just have to sit back and watch the UK fade while their birth rate continues to peacefully re-take their own country.

Have a Good Friday, jerk.
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: closed tags
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: clarification
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by 11andrew34

Originally posted by Freeborn
It's as if the all concerned just want to conveniently ignore or forget about this whole episode - neither the Republicans or Loyalists come out of it very well and neither does the British military.


Well obviously. You yourself post this:


Originally posted by Freeborn
Why would anyone want to see a return of The Troubles?
The very small minority who are now working towards such an end must be resisted at all costs.


I think it's obviously hypocritical and/or stupid of you to wave these bloody shirts around on Good Friday and act like you're doing it for anything other than jingoistic loyalist grandstanding.

...

And you know what, here's something you need to accept: the protestants are losing Northern Ireland in no more than a few decades, by entirely peaceful means. The glory days of the British Empire are long gone and the UK itself is crumbling. They won't even hang on to SCOTLAND and you are trying to stir crap up about Northern Ireland of all places.

Stirring up unrest is now obviously, entirely in the interests of the protestants/UK/loyalists/orange whatever you want to call thems. Or at least, in the interests of the idiotic ones who just can't accept what history is deciding for them, and see stirring up trouble as a last ditch way to try and scare people into clinging to the UK.

The Irish now just have to sit back and watch the UK fade while their birth rate continues to peacefully re-take their own country.

Have a Good Friday, jerk.
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: closed tags
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: clarification
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: (no reason given)


Coming from someone who lives in an occupied county (The USA , which is a product of The British Empire you so detest) I call you hypocrite of the year.

Double jerk.
edit on 29-3-2013 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-3-2013 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by 11andrew34
 




I think it's obviously hypocritical and/or stupid of you to wave these bloody shirts around on Good Friday and act like you're doing it for anything other than jingoistic loyalist grandstanding.


I assure you there's nothing hypocritical or stupid about my intentions at all - the sole intention is to highlight the brutal killings of two people, the amazing act of courage and bravery by a Catholic priest, the effect these killings had on a woman and her family and the refusal of the British government to release all the details relating to these murders.

There is nothing jingoistic about my intent and to accuse me of 'loyalist grandstanding' is ridiculous and so wide of the mark.

I was as disgusted with the killings carried out by Michael Stone as I was by these murders.



And you know what, here's something you need to accept: the protestants are losing Northern Ireland in no more than a few decades, by entirely peaceful means.


The key words there are peaceful means.



They won't even hang on to SCOTLAND


Well that's for the people of Scotland to decide - if you want to discuss the possible outcome of the referendum take it to one of the relevant threads and I'll gladly discuss that with you there.



and you are trying to stir crap up about Northern Ireland of all places.


Please show me exactly how I'm trying to 'stir up' anything.

It is impossible just to wipe clean the slate after so many years of atrocities being committed by BOTH sides.
Do you honestly want to just ignore what happened and bury your head in the sand?
Or perhaps you just want to discuss things that fit in with your personal viewpoint and perspective?

The nationalist community quite rightly demanded to know the full details behind the Bloody Sunday killings - how is this any different?

Were their demands attempts to stir up trouble?



The Irish now just have to sit back and watch the UK fade while their birth rate continues to peacefully re-take their own country.


If that is the natural course of things then so be it.

And if the majority of people in Northern Ireland ever decide they wish to be an independant state or to join The Republic then again, so be it, as long as it's done by peaceful means and due process and I would offer them my wholehearted support.

Interestingly enough, all recent polls and survey's suggest that more and more people in Northern Ireland wish to remain within the UK, including approximately 65% of the traditionally nationalist communities.

This thread was intended to show how even during the brutal events of The Troubles a little bit of humanity shines through and how the killings affected one woman and her family.



Have a Good Friday, jerk.


And how do you expect me to respond to that - in an equally childish manner?

ETA

Oh, and there's nothing more sinsiter about the timing other than Father Reid and Nualla Cassidy telling their respective stories recently and me only reading them last night and I thought it may, just may, be of some interest to some people.
edit on 29/3/13 by Freeborn because: Add ETA



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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I'm kinda hoping that they weren't intelligence operatives of any sort, as their decision to drive into the midst of a funeral cortege doesn't reflect very highly on the intelligence they were acting on.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by 11andrew34
Have a Good Friday, jerk.
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: closed tags
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: clarification
edit on 29-3-2013 by 11andrew34 because: (no reason given)


You are out of order - show some respect for the men that freeborn is talking about.
Your comment is nasty and vindictive.



posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by 11andrew34
 


Just what does the day this was posted to have to do with anything? This says more about you that it does about the OP.

I spend a great deal of time in Northern Ireland, and the majority of people I meet and talk with, could not careless about who governs them. There are people on the extremes, who have and will continue to want to change who governs them, but all and any means.

By peaceful means, you mean by the ballot box? The only people who can determine the future of Northern Ireland, are initially, the people of Northern Ireland and then the British people. Are you suggesting that the people of Northern Ireland want to be citizens of Eire? A country that is at the mercy of ECB, and no longer has any control over the running of its economy.

There are reports that the birth rate in Ireland is one of the highest in the EU, and while this may true, how many of the births are Irish, rather than other nationals?


CX

posted on Mar, 29 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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I remember that day all too well.

I remember being sat in the auditorium at my Northern Ireland training, and a close up picture of one of the soldiers bodies was on the huge cinema size screen. It stayed there for the majority of the lecture on Out of Bounds areas. It was there to remind you, and it worked.

Out of Bounds areas were as the term implies, areas you don't go into. Any soldier booking out of a barracks in N.I was required to look at the OOB board that day to see what areas were out of bounds. This could be just for a set time period, due to something like a march, a protest....or a funeral. You took notice of these areas, or bad things could happen.

Sad as the incident was, those guys should not have been there that day.

The reason people thought they were SAS/14 Int etc, was because of the plain clothes and thier handguns.

This wasn't unusual though for soldiers carrying out quite mundane duties.

CX.
edit on 29/3/13 by CX because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:00 AM
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Great read,OP. The abandonment of these two men is strange especially when you read about the events leading up to it.Seems like the British Army was more interested in protecting themselves rather then their men.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by TheDoctor46
 


was sad, but just on a point of order here, we are mainly fighting over nationality, with religion obviously involved, but more as a community marker.

I would come from a loyalist/unionist background, and the guys involved had no interest in the Bible



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by TheDoctor46
 

They were probably SAS. What they were doing screaming around in that car in that area at the time, well we'll never no....
After what happened with the Michael Stone Incident the week prior, there was no way they were getting out of that situation alive...

edit on 30-3-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by 11andrew34
...

And you know what, here's something you need to accept: the protestants are losing Northern Ireland in no more than a few decades, by entirely peaceful means. The glory days of the British Empire are long gone and the UK itself is crumbling. They won't even hang on to SCOTLAND and you are trying to stir crap up about Northern Ireland of all places.



you SIR are an ignorant BIGOTED buffoon- you need to educate yourself- RELIGION IS NO LONGER A MARKER FOR NATIONAL IDENTITY!

As Roman Catholic population has increased, the numbers wanting a united ireland have DECREASED, oops not everyone plays your sectarian head count game.

www.irishtimes.com...

www.bbc.co.uk...


barely 20% want unity.

So here is something YOU need to accept- people like you are a dying breed, with your religious/sectarian groupthink- you are a dying breed, and most people in NI (and an increasing number at that) are comfortable with their UK status


RULE BRITANNIA KID



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by TheDoctor46
 

They were probably SAS. What they were doing screaming around in that car in that area at the time, well we'll never no....
After what happened with the Michael Stone Incident the week prior, there was no way they were getting out of that situation alive...

edit on 30-3-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)


if they were SAS I would have expected a few dead baying republicans, they did not do this



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by Credenceskynyrd
 

I remember at the time the buzz was that they were SAS....from a British Army source. I have no proof, just relaying the information i was told at the time.
The Moustache's are kinda a dead Giveaway.



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by Credenceskynyrd
 

I remember at the time the buzz was that they were SAS....from a British Army source. I have no proof, just relaying the information i was told at the time.
The Moustache's are kinda a dead Giveaway.



ha taches, very good

Suppose anything is possible, though the brother in law is an ex para, said it was common for squaddies to take a tour of areas



posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by Credenceskynyrd
 

I remember at the time the buzz was that they were SAS....from a British Army source. I have no proof, just relaying the information i was told at the time.
The Moustache's are kinda a dead Giveaway.



ha taches, very good

Suppose anything is possible, though the brother in law is an ex para, said it was common for squaddies to take a tour of areas

If they weren't SAS they were undercover in some capacity....intel maybe..?






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