How do Christians view Judaism/Jewish practices?

reply to post by FreedomEntered

These are things which were established by the Laws of Moses.
Jews are still taking them literally, the early church gave them a new interpretation.
The Christian viewpoint, obviously, is that the literal circumcision is unnecessary, because we can belong to God without it.
Understandably, the Jews don't see it that way, which is why they continue with the literal version.
If your question is "Do I think God wants them to ciurcumcise?"- If the Christians are right, then he may not attach much importance to it.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I was just asking if you regard Jews are Jews if they follow the Blood convenant and circumcise?

Or if you have a broader view of what a Jew is and Im asking also what is the equivalant type initiation in Christianity?

reply to post by FreedomEntered

I'm not sure that a Christian is qualified to say who counts as a Jew and who doesn't.
For what it's worth, if the man thinks he's a Jew, and other Jews think he's a Jew, that's good enough for me.
If your question is, do I think GOD thinks of him as a Jew, I'm not sure that God is bothered about the question in that form.
God's question is going to be; is he for me, or against me? Is he among my worshippers, or not among my worshippers?

But, yes, the Christian equivalent would be baptism.

reply to post by gladtobehere


I am a christian zionist and I support Israel.I am waiting for the return
of Yeshua/Jesus,my loyalty and my devotion is to Him.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
Regarding the lineage/conversion issue ---

Christians don't really take issue with who is or is not a Jew (setting aside Ashkenazi v. sephardic issue which seems confusing). Far as we are concerned, you are if you say you are. We acknowledge that it seems to be a bloodline/geneology thing.

Jews do not seem to be looking for converts. That is one thing that puzzles me. Christians and Muslims (and others) generally like to bring people into their faith, but the Jews don't seem interested in doing that, though they do want to bring their own lost sheep back into the fold.

Seems to me that a faith that is "correct" would not be limited in a way that excludes others not of "appropriate lineage".

The Jews were designated as chosen but the Old Testament of the Bible is rife with stories of how they abandoned and disobeyed God. Jesus brought a new covenant so that anyone could have hope of eternal life in the presence of God.

I think any group of people who consider themselves holy are kidding themselves. We can all strive for that, but we are human. There may be holy men, let's say, who commit themselves to life in a monastery, but no general population should be so full of themselves to consider themselves holy as a group. Yet we are all children of God, and He longs for us to love Him.

reply to post by N4mYourself


Yep, true I will tell you breifly that due to the amount of suffering Jews have had in history, this is why they arent too keen to invite others in, from what I believe. Plus they want people who " want" to join them. Because its believed that a Jew has a Jewish soul before the conversion process or a "spark" of Jewishness thats already latent or there.

Also in many countries they did ban Jews from seeking converts.

Which is why I asked what is the Christian view on the suffering of Jews throughout history?

I mean in the days of the Old testament, Jews started to do well, after their forced enslavement by the Egyptians. But I think since then its been abit " down hill" least on the physical plane.

reply to post by N4mYourself

Yet we are all children of God, and He longs for us to love Him.

I really liked this post of yours and could hardly agree more.
Just this one part, though.
I do realize that the writer of Acts puts something like that in the mouth of Paul speaking to the Athenians.
I think he was talking more of the universality of the religion he was promoting.
In Galatians which Paul wrote, he says the same thing but with the qualification, "in Christ".

reply to post by FreedomEntered


You ask a tough question. Judaism is the root that Christianity is built on. And per the book its actually impossible for Judaism to become invalid. However I have discovered that it does have a major problem though. Put simply the problem is this.

In the first century AD the first century Jews triggered the curse of Malachi. According to Malachi Elijah the prophet was supposed to precede the Lord. But according to Matthew 17 Elijah the prophet was John the Baptist. Who Herod had killed by the request of Salome and her mother. A daughter and granddaughter of a high priest.

Working out the details of the curse I figured this out. The Jews and Israelites were to face a two thousand year top level Leviticus 26 curse. And it's still running. See the entire book of Hosea for the details and verse 6-2 for the timeframe of the curse. The days are thousand year periods of time BTW.

And you just have to look at the history books to see that the Jews have been serving it.

Now that being said I would point out also that there is another messiah prophesied to come. Per the books of Malachi and Zechariah the Lord has 2 personal servents. The branches per Zechariah. And the messengers according to Malachi. The problem is that one of the branches has yet to appear. Both branches had temples to build according to Zechariah. One has yet to show up.

So it looks like there is quite the mess that needs to be resolved at this point in time.

- Abraham and Moses are highly important Biblical figures, and as such, should be respected for everything they did for their people.

- Jews are, for the most part, highly respectful of other world religions, and strive for peace, love, and servitude to God in their day to day lives. Also, let's not forget that Jesus was Jewish, as were many prophets, scholars, historians, and teachers down through history.

- As long as they follow the law they are supposed to adhere to, there's no reason to suggest Jews are going to Hell. Most Christians and Muslims agree that Jews will also be going to Heaven. Why do Jews suffer? I wouldn't pinpoint the Jews as be the sole sufferers of the world. We all suffer to some degree, some more than others. We would have to ask why so many Africans suffer then. The answer isn't a simple one.

- Nobody in particular is "chosen". We're all afforded the same love and life from God.

- I've never understood the purpose of the circumcision thing. It's come to my attention in recent years that circumcision can cause more bad than good in the long term, and even more so, many babies are circumcised, which just seems like unnecessary pain and mutilation.

- The purpose of Judaism is the same purpose of any other world religion: To find that which is and always has been, and serve it with all your heart. To find love in you, and give it to your fellow man.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
Regarding the suffering of the Jews in history--

There is no race that hasn't suffered. That seems to be the sad nature of mankind. They will kill to get someone else's land, property, etc.

Yes, there was the Holocaust. But Jews are not the only ones killed by the millions throughout history.

Christians were ruthlessly killed by the tens of millions in the Russian Revolution in the early 1900s for their beliefs and so that their property could be confiscated.

Even during the Inquisition, most of those killed were Christians who didn't want to follow the dogma of the Catholic church. (An incredibly shameful part of Christian/Catholic history.) The "heretics" were killed for their form of Christian beliefs, not so much for their property.

In other words, yes, Jews have suffered. They are not alone in that regard.

reply to post by FreedomEntered
One last post before I focus on the Easter holiday.

I think Christians are very perplexed as to why Jews don't seek out information about the life of Jesus Christ. What are they afraid to learn?

Jesus wasn't just a guy, a prophet, or a martyr for his beliefs. Many miracles surrounded his life and death. But if he had just died on the cross that probably would have been the end of the story. But he rose from the dead and was with his disciples and others for 40 more days (an important Biblical number) performing more miracles than he did before the crucifixion and then he ascended into Heaven.

There is such joy in Christianity, that Christians are baffled as to why Jews wouldn't want to know that their messiah DID come. Listen to Christian music radio for one hour and you can't help but feel the joy and love and communion with God.

May God bless all His children who seek Him, and open their hearts to truth.

reply to post by N4mYourself


Well they fear being converted by Christians to Judaism naturally, if you believe your religion is a more complete system of belief.

This arose from the dead part, is this referring to his spirit/soul?

I mean if one has been hanging and dies on a cross, then how all of a sudden will he awaken and who awakes him. Where did they put him .

reply to post by N4mYourself


Was Jesus a Talmudic Jew?

reply to post by FreedomEntered

Was Jesus a Talmudic Jew?

It may be possible that no one is.
This seams to be a derogatory term used by certain gentiles to slander people, and is not a proper piece of explanatory terminology.

There does seem to be a term, Talmudic rabbis. That would be rabbis who specialize in the study of the Talmud.
Technically, all rabbis study the Talmud, though they don't all enter into a discussion of it with other rabbis with the intention of adding to it or creating new interpretations to be adopted on an official basis.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Ah I see, sorry what I meant is did he keep shabbat and other Jewish festivals? Throughout his life.

Yes, the Talmud is unfairely slandered. I think many ancient texts are interperated wrongly and taken too literal.

reply to post by FreedomEntered

Ah I see, sorry what I meant is did he keep shabbat and other Jewish festivals? Throughout his life.

There were what the New Testament calls the Pharisees, which were the 'holy' people who believed that it was necessary (to be holy) in order for Israel to be properly 'restored'.
That would focus on things like the Sabbath in particular, and by extension the festival observances.
Jesus did attend those, even at the risk of his life, and then really at the cost of his life, on his final Passover celebration.
He just didn't personally engage in the sacrificial aspects, as in the slaughter of animals.
He also saw the Sabbath as a good opportunity to do good works, which is where he came into conflict with the Pharisees.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Ah I see, but Christians today practice some Jewish festivals to know what its like for Jesus?

Im referring to the Zionist Christians.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


I think also, is why is it that Christianity gained greater popularity than Judaism?

reply to post by FreedomEntered

Christians today practice some Jewish festivals to know what its like for Jesus?

You can try to celebrate those festivals without being a Zionist.
A "Zionist" today means supporting the illegal occupation of Palestine by a regime modeled after Nazi Germany.

One form of US inspired Christian fundamentalism views the Jews and the creation of Israel as crucial to the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy and the ushering in of the end times.

However, there's no real sense that the Jews are saved or important outside this view of prophesy, or some disputed archeological claims to support the Bible.

Some Christian Zionists go as far as saying that a practicing Jew is the same as a saved Christian.
However, this dual salvation theory is still a heresy to most.

Most Christians however hope that all the Jews will convert to Christianity, or become Jews for Jesus during the tribulation and second coming.
There's a sense that Jews could change their core belief on a singular God and also believe in the divinity of Jesus, and with a bit of reworking traditional festivals and symbolism they could be both Jews and Christians.
Many evangelical Christians certainly accept this as bona fide conversion nowadays.
In this respect much mainstream Christianity has changed.
Jews were once forced to be baptized or killed, and then they belonged to the church and were expected to give up all their rituals and celebrations.
Those days are over, and there is a lot of transference between the two faiths for some believers in both.

Ultimately Christians believe themselves saved by the blood-sacrifice of the lamb (Jesus), and not simply by believing in one true God (most still believe in the trinity).
As long as Jews believe in a divine Jesus and His sacrifice they are not expected to give up their Jewishness.
Other cultures must usually still give up their old deity or deities to become Christian.

The Jews may at times be exalted as the founders of "Judeo-Christian" culture, or paraded as examples of those who strayed and were punished, or examples of God's wrath against those who rejected Jesus when He was specifically sent to them.
The exact meaning of the discourse can be very unclear and confused.

That's fundamentalism, although many Christians also feel very bad about the treatment of Jews in history.
The whole situation in Israel and the Middle East can however be misconstrued into simplistic ways of either blaming or celebrating Jews, when it is really about a country and the actions of a state.
Perhaps sometimes the Christian world sees the Jews as the last line of defense against looming Islamization.

Although the Biblical support for circumcision has been used to justify the procedure, it was not always the case in Christian countries.
Under the inquisition circumcision could be seen as "Judaizing", and few (if any) renaissance statues of naked Biblical figures are depicted as circumcised.

Alarmist discourses around hygiene, masturbation and colonial armies in sandy deserts influenced the resurgence of the practice over a century ago.
In SA many tribal cultures who are now mostly Christian also practiced circumcision.
They would also mention the Biblical support for the custom, but this seems incidental rather than causal.