Is it possible to be a Christian and a believer in Islam?

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by adjensen

 

So why would it be so hard to believe that the bible predicts the arrival of Mohammed?

So you're saying that Islam is a Jewish sect? If it isn't, it's no more likely to predict the arrival of a Muslim prophet than it would be to predict the arrival of a Hindu or Aztec prophet.

At any rate, the bible predicts the arrival of the Messiah, not a prophet.

So, unless you think that Muhammed is the Jewish Messiah, there's no reason to think that, just because there is evidence for Christ in the Hebrew Bible, there should also be evidence of Muhammed.

reply to post by adjensen

He's God, for pete's sakes. Who are you to tell him what he can and can't do?

I am not saying what God can and can't do.

Jesus is described as Mary's firstborn.... and Christians believe Jesus is God's begotten son. So whats the deal between God and Mary?

reply to post by adjensen


Darknstormy : So why would it be so hard to believe that the bible predicts the arrival of Mohammed?

So you're saying that Islam is a Jewish sect?

Eh, how did you read that into his words?

At any rate, the bible predicts the arrival of the Messiah, not a prophet.

The Bible has predicted the arrival of prophets as well. John the Baptist, for example.

Also, you seem to think that the the Bible does not predict a servant of God who would operate outside of Israel. Isaiah 42 predicts the arrival of a servant of God who would be involved with the lands of Kedar and the wilderness (Ishmaelite) who would shame the idolaters and lead the people out of their old ways to the the worship of the God of the Bible.

No Israelite prophet achieved this. It was an Ishmaelite, Mohammad who did.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by adjensen

 

So why would it be so hard to believe that the bible predicts the arrival of Mohammed?

So you're saying that Islam is a Jewish sect? If it isn't, it's no more likely to predict the arrival of a Muslim prophet than it would be to predict the arrival of a Hindu or Aztec prophet.

At any rate, the bible predicts the arrival of the Messiah, not a prophet.

So, unless you think that Muhammed is the Jewish Messiah, there's no reason to think that, just because there is evidence for Christ in the Hebrew Bible, there should also be evidence of Muhammed.

Since when was Jesus a Jewish Messiah? They don't seem to think so..

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by adjensen

 

He's God, for pete's sakes. Who are you to tell him what he can and can't do?

I am not saying what God can and can't do.

You said that he needed a wife to beget Jesus. That is, most definitely, saying what God can and can't do.

Jesus is described as Mary's firstborn.... and Christians believe Jesus is God's begotten son.

The "begetting" business is not related to the incarnation, so it has nothing to do with Mary.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Since when was Jesus a Jewish Messiah? They don't seem to think so..

Okay, if you're just going to play stupid, there's no purpose in responding to you.

reply to post by adjensen

You said that he needed a wife to beget Jesus. That is, most definitely, saying what God can and can't do.

Christian belief is that...
a) God "begat" a son, Jesus.
b) This son, who you believe is God... was also the firstborn of a human woman.

Its like when I tell you "Mike is the begotten son of Mr.John and the firstborn of Mrs.Linda", it is understood that John and Linda procreated Mike.

So if Jesus is the son of God and the firstborn of Mary, what is the relationship between God and Mary? It is a pretty simple question really.

The "begetting" business is not related to the incarnation, so it has nothing to do with Mary.

It has everything to do with Mary, considering Jesus, who you believe is God... was in Mary's womb for 9 months... and was her firstborn. So even if Christian's don't acknowledge it .... their belief is that a human woman gave birth to their God... and then nursed him and raised him.

reply to post by adjensen


Apparently there is a book in Palestine which proves that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet. Pretty sure it was written by his brother James. It is under lock and key in what I believe was a Greek Orthodox Church maybe, can't remember. If that book is legitimate and it says what I just wrote, would you still believe he was the Son of God? Or maybe just a messenger of god?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by adjensen

 

You said that he needed a wife to beget Jesus. That is, most definitely, saying what God can and can't do.

Christian belief is that...
a) God "begat" a son, Jesus.
b) This son, who you believe is God... was also the firstborn of a human woman.

Again, you don't seem to understand the Doctrine of the Incarnation.

Jesus did not come into existence at his birth -- Mary has nothing to do with it. He existed at the beginning of time. It's the first verse of the first chapter of John, for pete's sakes. (apologies to eight bits, lol)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1 NIV)

If you don't understand that, you don't understand Christianity, and there's no point in trying to explain it to you.

reply to post by adjensen

Jesus did not come into existence at his birth -- Mary has nothing to do with it. He existed at the beginning of time.

a) Sounds like some bizarre Jesus fan-fiction. Kindly show me the Biblical verse that says Jesus existed at the beginning of time. Those are your words so please back it up with the verse... not your interpretation of some random verse.

b) The Bible tell us that Jesus was Mary's firstborn.
So I'll ask you again, if Jesus is the son of God and also the firstborn of Mary.... What is the relationship between God and Mary?. Refer to my Mike, John and Linda example.

I know its an icky problem, but these are biblical statements. Christians have only been special pleading...

"Jesus is the son of God and the firstborn of Mary, but that does not mean God and Mary were in a relationship, no sir."

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If you don't understand that, you don't understand Christianity, and there's no point in trying to explain it to you.

So when the "word" came upon the prophets of the Old Testament, was that actually Jesus going around?

Anyway, I'm not asking for a theology lesson. My question IS based off the Bible and is rather simple.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Sadly, the Christians try and keep God all to themselves.

Not true.

According to them, those who don't believe what they believe... worship "false gods".

Says the muslim who's religion demands the death of so-called infidels

The fact that they even acknowledge the existence of other gods makes them polytheists.

Um .. no. One God .. Three Persons or Aspects.
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Three in One.
You have been told this before.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
A "father" can't beget a son, without a wife.

A HUMAN father can't beget a son without a wife.
For God ... all things are possible.

See .. that's the problem with Islam. It's bound by the chains of the mundane.
An afterlife full of a sex ... a God Who can't do anything except what humans can do ....

Expand your mind ... break the chains ... realize that God can do whatever the heck He wants ... realize that the afterlife isn't bound by human urges and needs ...

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
So whats the deal between God and Mary?

You aren't going to try to say that Christianity claims God had sex with Mary, are you?
The bible is very clear ... God asked Mary to be the Mother of Jesus. She said yes.
The power of the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she concieved a child.
God asked the person who He thought would be the best mother for Jesus.
It's just that simple.

And yes .. Mary is the Mother of God. Like all human mothers, she didn't generate His soul,
but her body made His body ... and she cared for Him ... so she is His mother.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
You do realise that if you were to read the Hebrew Bible, Mohammed is recognised as one of the last prophets? He name meant the "Comforter". Maybe you show go and read a bit of John...

You do realize that if you were to read the Hebrew Bible, Muhammad isn't in there at all. Maybe you should go and read the Hebrew Bible. What you are claiming simply isn't there. Islam claims that .. it's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

reply to post by 0SolidSnake0

:shk: Dude .. don't bother posting Qu'ran quotes to try to spook people .. or whatever your intent is. It doesn't work. The Qu'ran is just bits and pieces taken from the Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians .. with a bunch of misogyny thrown in .. and it's all BADLY rewritten at that. It means nothing.

reply to post by DarknStormy

You'll have to be more specific. I don't know what you are talking about.
And would you please give a link to that source of yours? Thanks.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Jewish Rabbis even agree that Mohammed was spoken of just like Jesus ...

Would you provide some links with that information please? Thank you.

And would these be the same Rabbis that totally missed that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of all their prophets? He came as a Suffering Servant (Isaiah) instead of the political leader that they wanted. So they rejected Him and missed their long awaited Messiah.

As for your link, its just another christian website who will do anything to discredit any connection with Islam..

As for the information being put forth here by some posters, they are just from Islamic websites who will do anything to try to legitimize their 'prophet' by grabbing the coat tails of the Jews and Christians.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
So why would it be so hard to believe that the bible predicts the arrival of Mohammed?

Maybe as an anti-christ. Since Islam rejects that Jesus is God Incarnate, they are anti-Christ. So sure .. you could say that the bible predicts the arrival of Muhammad.

double post ..

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DarknStormy
So why would it be so hard to believe that the bible predicts the arrival of Mohammed?

Maybe as an anti-christ. Since Islam rejects that Jesus is God Incarnate, they are anti-Christ. So sure .. you could say that the bible predicts the arrival of Muhammad.

Umm No. You will find the antichrist rises in the West, just like the Koran and the bible seem to both say.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Not true.

Of course its true.
Christians believe only their understanding of God is "true" while everybody else worships false gods and such.

Says the muslim who's religion demands the death of so-called infidels

Have me or any of the muslims on ATS called for the deaths of non-muslims?
No. So that was a worthless and pointless statement.

A HUMAN father can't beget a son without a wife.
For God ... all things are possible.

Yes, all things are possible with God... give children to barren women and even cause a child to grow in the womb of a virgin. But Christians believe God begat his son with Mary's involvement...making it look as if God took Mary for a wife.

You aren't going to try to say that Christianity claims God had sex with Mary, are you?

Not sex, but the Christian belief that God had His "son" with Mary implies that God and Mary were in some sort of a bizarre "husband-wife" kind of relationship.

The bible is very clear ... God asked Mary to be the Mother of Jesus. She said yes.

God asked the person who He thought would be the best mother for Jesus.

God did not ask Mary for permission to carry Jesus. God sent His angel with the message that...

a) Mary has found favor with God.
b)That Mary would conceive and give birth to a son.

Basically, Jesus was announced as a child for Mary.

When Mary asked how it was possible, the angel takes the example of Elizabeth who God also caused to conceive, because "nothing is impossible with God".

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DarknStormy
So why would it be so hard to believe that the bible predicts the arrival of Mohammed?

Maybe as an anti-christ. Since Islam rejects that Jesus is God Incarnate, they are anti-Christ. So sure .. you could say that the bible predicts the arrival of Muhammad.

madam God does not need to eat. he does not need walking in the streets. he is powerful enough. no one can kill him. (however Koran says Jesus was saved alive). Jesus is not God even according to some believers of Christianity. this concept is an open issue in Christianity too. why should we worship such a needy God. it is contrary to monotheism.