The unanswerable question, and Gods paradox.

So the question is.

What happens when irresistible force meets immovable object?

Or can God make a stone so heavy even he cant lift it?

There are many examples of this, and many answers, I was just curious what some of you would postulate is the correct answer.

I will give the most common, and most well known.

It is that they would yield, or both fail, or neither would prevail.

But it can be much more complicated, if one were to say for example, the universe can not have an immovable object and an irresistible force in the same. As one would have to triumph. As Asimov saw it.

Or even that an irresistible force cant even exist until it is tried against an immovable object, and vise versa, so neither coukd actually exist at all.

So what are your answers? I promise no answer can be wrong, though some could be debated for best answer.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Dear inverslypropotional,

What happens when irresistible force meets immovable object? Or can God make a stone so heavy even he cant lift it?

LOL, you really don't understand how stupid those questions are. They don't prove anything about God, they prove that you don't understand that you have proven that you are working with a bad understanding of logic and language. There is no such thing as an irresistible force, an immovable object. Please, show me anywhere in the universe where there is an irresistible force or an immovable object. Do you know anything about science? Neither of the things you describe exist, nor, is there any science saying they exist.

Your second questions was equally silly. The real question is whether or not he could learn to lift it, if he can also grow. You assume God is static, you assume perfection is an end, it is a process. What if God is also an eternally growing and learning being? Did you ever consider that or are you just stuck in silly old chants. Did you really believe that you are the first person to ask these questions? Please, ask a sincere question or pose a new question, it will be much more interesting for all of us, including you.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
So the question is.

What happens when irresistible force meets immovable object?

As the long as the force remains irresistible the object eventually becomes movable by law of physics.

Or can God make a stone so heavy even he cant lift it?

If there was a God, the answer to that question would be a big yes, with the biblical understanding that "all things are possible with God".

My understanding at this point of God, is that it is what is. All is one on is all.

Peace

Bah! Pay no attention to "AQuestion". Well, I won't anyway. He sounds way smarter than me.
I love the question. That kind of stuff keeps my mind busy for hours. I don't have an answer for you, just a bit of gratitude and encouragement to keep asking questions instead of taking the path of least resistance...(It ends at the television set.)

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

Dear inverslypropotional,

What happens when irresistible force meets immovable object? Or can God make a stone so heavy even he cant lift it?

LOL, you really don't understand how stupid those questions are. They don't prove anything about God, they prove that you don't understand that you have proven that you are working with a bad understanding of logic and language. There is no such thing as an irresistible force, an immovable object. Please, show me anywhere in the universe where there is an irresistible force or an immovable object. Do you know anything about science? Neither of the things you describe exist, nor, is there any science saying they exist.

Your second questions was equally silly. The real question is whether or not he could learn to lift it, if he can also grow. You assume God is static, you assume perfection is an end, it is a process. What if God is also an eternally growing and learning being? Did you ever consider that or are you just stuck in silly old chants. Did you really believe that you are the first person to ask these questions? Please, ask a sincere question or pose a new question, it will be much more interesting for all of us, including you.

Um wow guy, I think you have had to much caffeine. I am not implying anything about god, as I couldnt tell you one way or another if he is or isnt real, or even if he were what attributes he would have.

I was simply asking a fun question, that can be played around with, and yet can lead to much deeper understandings as to our own misconceptions of the universe around us.

Just for example, this same question has been asked by people since recorded history, in many different coultures.

In ancient china it is an old fable, about a guy who comes into town with a spear and a shield. He wants to sell them both, so a guy asks him about the spear, he explains it is a mythical weapon and can pierce any armor, another man asks about his shield, and he explains it is a mythical shield that can defeat the attack of any spear. A third man walks up and asks what will happen if I use the spear on the shield.

I can give you many more examples, I assure you many people have asked this question many times for thousanrs of years, in many different forms. It is a very well thought out, and revealing question. Yet it seems so simple as to be answered in mere seconds, with little thought. Though if one thinks longer on it, will also appear to be very complex in its simplicity.

Though I can not make or force you to think little or long on the subject, I can only ask the question, and as no answer can truly he ruled out, I give you a star for your contribution.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Dear inverslyproportional,

Um wow guy, I think you have had to much caffeine. I am not implying anything about god, as I couldnt tell you one way or another if he is or isnt real, or even if he were what attributes he would have. I was simply asking a fun question, that can be played around with, and yet can lead to much deeper understandings as to our own misconceptions of the universe around us.

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I was responding to your questions and we both agree they have been asked before and got nowhere. Let me ask you a question in fun, if you are self aware, how can you ever stop being self aware? Einstein said that energy could neither be created nor destroyed, so how can consciousness be created or do you not believe you are conscious and self aware. And by the way, only red wine in me, no coffee. LOL.

Originally posted by InnerPeace2012

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
So the question is.

What happens when irresistible force meets immovable object?

As the long as the force remains irresistible the object eventually becomes movable by law of physics.

Or can God make a stone so heavy even he cant lift it?

If there was a God, the answer to that question would be a big yes, with the biblical understanding that "all things are possible with God".

My understanding at this point of God, is that it is what is. All is one on is all.

Peace

edit on 16-3-2013 by InnerPeace2012 because: (no reason given)

Ah, but it is kinda odd woukdnt you say, that the act of god making a stone so heavy even he coukdnt lift it woukd kean he could not do anything.

Though as he can do anything, he woukd lift the rock, but then he wouldnt be able to make it so heavy he couldnt lift it.

But this also raises another question about the paradox, maybe god has never lifted more than the universe so he thought 2 would be sufficient, to make him unale though upon trying he realised he could, so he would make it heavier and try again etc......

Or would god simply be too smart for this, and explain that itnis not possible to be all things at once, and so would have to choose between the 2 and then switch.

Or maybe he woukd do both, and the paradox woukd only be in man thinking they could out think god.

Or maybe god would say that is a good one, you guys come up with the strangest things and go back to whatever god does when not creating or performing other godlike tasks.

There is a lot of possibilities, I just think the subject is fascinating to talk about to oick others brains for somthing I havent heard or thought of before.

Maybe you meant unstoppable force.
There is no spoon.

Originally posted by wirefly
Bah! Pay no attention to "AQuestion". Well, I won't anyway. He sounds way smarter than me.
I love the question. That kind of stuff keeps my mind busy for hours. I don't have an answer for you, just a bit of gratitude and encouragement to keep asking questions instead of taking the path of least resistance...(It ends at the television set.)

I dont mind him, this isnt some all important question, it is mearly fun to think about, as it requires none linear thinking, as it is obvious nothing can be irresistible, and nothing can be immovable, as we are all moving relative to eachother, thus moveable, and every known force can be resisted, with a couple of exceptions.

Are we absolutely sure everything is in motion? Not entirely, but enough so to feel comfortable making the claim. Are we absolutely sure no force is irresistible? Actually I can name one known force, but it only exists under the right conditions, it is gravity, at the event hirizon of a black hole.

So if one exists, than surely the other must as well, provided the right conditions are met. But it is also said both cannot exist in the same universe, so maybe there is only one, ilthe irresistibly strong pull of gravity.

reply to post by AQuestion

It truly is a paradox, and one not easily approached, especially by the layman, as many a scholar, and theologians alike have asked and thought, to no satisfactory answer.

My take would be, if consciouness cannot end, thus life cannot end, then either it did not really exist at all, or it simpky changes form and becomes a different yet equal entity either via reincarnation or some other method, heaven perhaps.

Though just to be objective, perhaps we were never really alive, or even had free will, perhaos it is like the 13th floor, and we are constructs in ancomputer, and we only think we are deciding, because we are programmed to think we are.

Or even maybe we are the gods themselves, and we have placed ourselves here so we might se what it is like to live a mortals life, before we create them and force existance upon them.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
Maybe you meant unstoppable force.
There is no spoon.

No, I meant irresistible, as in can not be resisted.

As an object that cannt be resisted will move any other force or object it encounters.


Star for your contribution.

Originally posted by wirefly
Bah! Pay no attention to "AQuestion". Well, I won't anyway. He sounds way smarter than me.
I love the question. That kind of stuff keeps my mind busy for hours. I don't have an answer for you, just a bit of gratitude and encouragement to keep asking questions instead of taking the path of least resistance...(It ends at the television set.)

Dear wirefly,

And yet your advice was to embrace ignorance and ignore questions that challenge us. The OP asked some questions, he later said he was looking to have fun and get into deeper issues. I answered him and challenged him, is that not what he asked for? Is your advice to him to ignore those who give him what he asks for?

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by AQuestion

 

It truly is a paradox, and one not easily approached, especially by the layman, as many a scholar, and theologians alike have asked and thought, to no satisfactory answer.

My take would be, if consciouness cannot end, thus life cannot end, then either it did not really exist at all, or it simpky changes form and becomes a different yet equal entity either via reincarnation or some other method, heaven perhaps.

Though just to be objective, perhaps we were never really alive, or even had free will, perhaos it is like the 13th floor, and we are constructs in ancomputer, and we only think we are deciding, because we are programmed to think we are.

Or even maybe we are the gods themselves, and we have placed ourselves here so we might se what it is like to live a mortals life, before we create them and force existance upon them.

Dear inverselyproportional,

Okay, where is it logical to say that if consciousness exists then a possibility is that we did not? That is not logical. I have asked this before, prove to me that you do not exist and then prove that I do not. This should be simple if it were true it would impossible. That is your unmovable force at work, existence. There is no unstoppable force except it, they are one in the same, they cannot exist apart from one another. Did that answer your question and the little fly.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Sounds like time could be an irresistible force and the immovable object could be the past.
So maybe the answer is reality happens.

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Or can God make a stone so heavy even he cant lift it?

God, being omnipotent can make a stone that is so heavy that he can't lift. But being the Almighty He will still lift it anyway.

Such questions are trollish in nature and serve no purpose. Its like what Satan once asked Jesus...
"can God fit the earth inside an egg without altering their sizes?" to which Jesus replied, "impotence is not attributed to God, but what you said cannot be."

The motive behind such impossible questions is to conclude "Since God cannot do that, he is not omnipotent".

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

Sounds like time could be an irresistible force and the immovable object could be the past.

edit on 16-3-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

Dear deadeyedick,

Then if they are one in the same, they cannot oppose one another. This is the essence of gnostic beliefs. The problem still is that the assumptions are wrong. How can anything be either of the two, there is no such thing as an irresistible force or an immovable object. Please, show me where these things exist in science>

reply to post by AQuestion


I wish i could but i don't even really know what science is from my pov.
Science seems like an answer to an unknown question.

The past is unmovable the future is unstoppable and the present is where the two collide.

Dear wirefly,

And yet your advice was to embrace ignorance and ignore questions that challenge us. The OP asked some questions, he later said he was looking to have fun and get into deeper issues. I answered him and challenged him, is that not what he asked for? Is your advice to him to ignore those who give him what he asks for?

Yes, whatever.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I wish i could but i don't even really know what science is from my pov.
Science seems like an answer to an unknown question.

The past is unmovable the future is unstoppable and the present is where the two collide.

edit on 16-3-2013 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)

Dear deadeyedick,

Then show me philosophically how the OP is even a rationale question. I thought the point was to have fun
with the question.

Originally posted by wirefly

Dear wirefly,

And yet your advice was to embrace ignorance and ignore questions that challenge us. The OP asked some questions, he later said he was looking to have fun and get into deeper issues. I answered him and challenged him, is that not what he asked for? Is your advice to him to ignore those who give him what he asks for?

Yes, whatever.

Dear wirefly,

Is that truly the best response you have? Are you capable of answering simple questions, that is all I asked, make some effort to correct me if you have such amazing knowledge and understanding of the world.