Half-naked man with assault rifle shoots up bar, killing one in Pennsylvania

Wow these shootings seem to be so frequent now? Or is it just that with the whole the gun situation the stories just get more attention?

Either way I think we are missing the real danger here .... Women!

reply to post by Wertdagf


Hammers are dangerous tools and are used to kill people all of the time. Same thing goes for knives, crowbars, hands and feet. Should we register and insure them as well?

reply to post by Wertdagf

Claiming that people will still commit crimes isnt an argument against enacting reasonable laws.

We already have reasonable laws. Everything this nutjob did was illegal…the OP pointed that out.

Having reasonable laws is only one part of what we need to do to prevent crime. Registration and insurance for the operation of dangerous tools is reasonable.

Registration and insurance are not reasonable!! It’s reasonable to YOU because it probably doesn’t affect YOU.

Now what is your counter?

Show me in the second amendment (or anywhere in the constitution or bill of rights) where gun registration is required.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The federal government works for ME…it’s not the other way around.

By the way, tell me how the registration and insurance you're advocating for would have changed the outcome of this shooting!

reply to post by TorqueyThePig


the potential damage from those tools is far less than sporting weapons. It is also nearly impossible to accidentaly kill someone with a hammer.

Someday technology might advance hammers and knives to the point where registration and insurance will be a necessity. Im thinking about portable nuclear powered impact hammers... or some sort of lightsaber.

Untill then it isnt reasonable.

reply to post by Wertdagf

We need to change society and its glorification of dangerous and self-destructive things.

Good luck with that.
Have you ever heard the one about the sheep that got together and passed legislation which outlawed eating meat?

The wolves ate them.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by solomons path

 

Claiming that people will still commit crimes isnt an argument against enacting reasonable laws.

It is, however, a valid argument against additional laws that will do nothing but harm those who follow the law.

Again, we need to enforce current laws before enacting more new ones. The straw purchase laws are rarely prosecuted. Lying on the application for the background check is a felony but there have been (IIRC) single digit percentages of people who lie on their application prosecuted. There have been more than a few articles on that recently.

Sounding like a broken record, but enforce these laws instead of making more.

reply to post by Wertdagf

It is also nearly impossible to accidentaly kill someone with a hammer.

You can't say that about automobiles....
Can you?

reply to post by seabag

Show me in the second amendment (or anywhere in the constitution or bill of rights) where gun registration is required.

The federal government works for ME…it’s not the other way around.

That should get 1000 stars..

They work for us we have to remember that..

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by solomons path

 

Replace "guns" with any other type of law and see how that works out for you. Claiming that people will still commit crimes isnt an argument against enacting reasonable laws.

Having reasonable laws is only one part of what we need to do to prevent crime. Registration and insurance for the operation of dangerous tools is reasonable.

Now what is your counter?

Why would I replace "guns" . . . the gun is a tool. So no . . . I won't replace it with "law", but we can replace it with other tools. And if you are getting at prohibition, like our failed drug policies, I don't agree with that either.

So, let's insert another tool:
Knives are "legal" to take to bars, unless posted by owner. It is illegal to stab someone. It is "legal" to own an unregistered knife.

Seems guns are already legislated more that other tools commonly used in violence, so your point is lacking in coherence.

Again . . . all guns are tracked by serial number and can be traced back to the original owner, so they are already "registered" and no need to expand. Insurance? Sure . . . when people who are prescribed pharms are required to purchase additional insurance or cell phone users are required to have "safety insurance" for driving/walking in public . . . or human's are required to have "relationship" insurance, I mean let's attack the cause, not the outcome, it would solve many more problems.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Again, how does registartion and insurance prevent bad things from happening?

Guns are no more dangerous than anything else when used properly. As a matter of fact I have used firearms (sport, hunting, work) more than hammers in my lifetime. I carry one everyday at work. I have never injuried myself or anyone else with a firearm.

I have however hit and hurt my fingers numerous times with a hammer. So perhaps it's not the tool but the idiot user behind it.

reply to post by TorqueyThePig

Good point.

We are all aware that there haven't been any automobile accidents since the implementation of licensing, registration and mandatory insurance for drivers.

reply to post by solomons path

He is right. He didn't say get rid of all gun laws and even clarified later he meant "more gun laws" and thinks that the current ones are just fine if enforced. I fully agree with that. It's illegal to bring a gun to a bar. It's illegal to shoot others. It's illegal to own unlicensed firearms. Seems like this guy wasn't following any of the current laws, why would he follow one or two more?

People arent following current laws so why make any more? That is idiotic.

You missed the point in you last reply.. intentionaly it seems. I addressed that point specificly.

reply to post by TorqueyThePig


If hitting your thumb with a hammer killed or seriously disabled you or someone else then it would be resonable to have it mirror vehicle registration and licensing.

Ive said this several time already... im starting to wonder if its pointless. The fact that crimes will still be commited isnt an argument against reasonable laws and regulations.

reply to post by Wertdagf


I actually like your suggestion about going after the glorification of guns and gun violence.

So, maybe your ire should be directed at the media and the government? I don't see many gun owners glorifying this issue.

Direct your complaints to those that do. Ask the media to stop plastering every incident on the news, when they don't do the same for every other form of violence. Ask Hollywood to stop make unbelievable action movies. Ask the government to stop their neo-Imperialistic and violent campaigns against make believe enemies.

reply to post by Wertdagf


So if the hammer was registered and insured people would no longer hurt their thumbs?

reply to post by Wertdagf

People arent following current laws so why make any more? That is idiotic.

More idiotic would be the legislators sitting in Washington and the state houses saying this....

'Well, we passed laws making it illegal to eat green Jello, but no one is following the law. What should we do?'
'We must pass a law to make it MORE illegal !

reply to post by Wertdagf


Not idiotic . . . realistic. The problem isn't the tool. The problem are the issues that lead someone to use that tool. These people aren't going to follow the over 3000 firearms restrictive laws already on the books, what makes you think they will follow 3001?

All owners must already go through a background check, even at gun shows. The only exception is private (person to person, not dealer) sales. It is a media myth that this doesn't happen or it isn't like that everywhere in this country. Most states require further registration or licensing to own/carry a gun. The problem isn't the amount of laws (about 3000); the problem is with enforcement, the conditions people find themselves in (cause) and that criminals pay no mind to them. Murder is illegal . . . yet, it hapens every day.

reply to post by Wertdagf


It's is a valid arguement when making those new laws would hurt LEGAL gun owners. I have a problem with you wanting to make my fellow citizens and my AR 15's illegal to own. I don't have a problem if you want to make it more ILLEGAL to kill someone. If you want to increase sentencing for committing crimes with firearms go ahead. Just DON'T TREAD ON ME. The legal gun owner.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Accidental

Post

Discharge

There should be a law against that!