Hi folks!
I don't really want to get too thick, or too much in depth here, but I probably will by default.

With all the rhetoric we hear from different quarters, it does in fact seem that we are headed for some very destructive and negative stuff, that it almost seems it could happen any moment with the right group jumping at exactly the wrong time, believing they are in the right.

I absolutely do not want anything to happen to us in general. Neither would I have it be a seemingly obvious Anti-American packed Government who would love to destroy the culture and relative peace that we have had for so many decades, nor a group of self described patriots that are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the former must be eliminated.

Let me qualify that if anything completely devastating does come, I will stand solid with "we the people" against all comers. Americanism must prevail and our true ideology must survive as had been envisioned from the beginning.

If there was to be some cockamamie NWO,it would be better that it all became an American world rather than this cosmo european, possibly stalinistic socialistic stuff I keep hearing. Don't forget that our founders specifically avoided any mirroring of any european governmental entities on purpose and with good reasoning processes to back them up.

But let's go beyond that for a moment. Let's do an intellectual exercise here, if we can. Take the assumption:

Assume: That there really is a small nucleus of people with enough money and power via connections and ect., that are rabidly doing a full court press on the American public and have been working on their plans for many years and are at a point where they could actually succeed nearly overnight with any number scenarios that you can imagine. They have worked hard to separate, deny, divide, disrupt and destroy the American way of life in order for them to obtain and distribute power in the way they choose. ASSUME further, that it is true that annihilation of much of the population is also their goal.


Then, based on those assumptions, it seems to follow that they have created a situation that to them sounds like a Win-Win situation whether they can actually get the military and police to do their dirty work for them, or they can get all of us divided and angry enough to actually get the guns out and go to town on one another.

It follows from that, that it seems no matter what happens, WE and I would dare say, humanity in general, loses.

30 or 40 years ago, (YES I am old enough) we would never have had any serious discussions about things like this. ALL politicians with Anti-America sentiments would be rooted out and actually taken care of. A punch in the face would be the bare minimum of that. Any discussions like this would be worthy of rauchous laughter. But these days, it actually takes on these serious qualities.

My opinion is that we do not want either scenario that I postulated above, but that we'd all be much happier and remain so getting back to how we normally live no matter WHAT our detractors think about it. Those who don't like our lifestyle and would rather make something else out of us are simply mentally disturbed. Some of the planners might actually BE genius level thinkers, but some where they took a left turn toward the Dark Side. I cannot seem to put it any nicer than that, and this is coming to you from a guy who believes that "political correctness" is a false doctrine created to, and successfully I might add, confound the fools and help make blithering idiots out of us all.

I would be up for some modern day McCarthy accusing people of being Anti-American and putting the pressure on those enemies of the state.

I SO want a peaceful resolution of all of this, but because of the regular use of the fallacies and the appeal to the emotional non thought of so many of us, I am not sure that we can convince people to settle down and try to think rationally.

Don't forget that 'emotionalism' and 'rationalism' are two separate words in the dictionary, which means they are not the same thing and in fact it turns out, they are mutually exclusive "thought" processes.

We are riddled with fake fear, fake humility, false toleration quotients,and a healthy fear of calling a spade a spade. Those who perform actions that are opposite of the American life style are by definition, Anti-Americans and we need to ratchet THAT rhetoric up in the hope that it may help open the eyes of the current fence sitters, unaware and oblivious folk, and the sleepwalker types that simply aren't paying attention in the Fantasy Island Realm that "everything's ok", because it isn't. The Europeans are getting their revenge on us that they have ALWAYS wanted, with the help of gullible, the greedy for money and power, and the naive here at home. Check History.

I just don't want the violent part to come at all, but any side can start it. For them, it is easy to create a false scenario. For us, it would have to be more direct, but in any case, it is wrong because of the ensuing HELL that comes with it. It is criminal on BOTH sides and fronts.

I don't like the notion that we have truly become a nation of cowards, morons and fools, but it IS what I conclude and I will stick to that until I see some general change in our collective psyche.

Punish for making a poptart look like a gun? Punish the innocent? Claim that being an American has something wrong with that? Shred the constitution, when most people are not really very familiar with it? Vets are possible terrorists??? Cannot determine actual difficulties?

Don't forget that those who are clever enough to get you to actually BELIEVE such absurdities can also get you to commit grand atrocities.

WTF is this?

I curse those who make me feel that I must keep the musket clean and oiled and the saber sharp. I'd rather they simply hung on the wall as conversation pieces, rusting away to nothing.

How can we put an end to this moronic nonsense?

Sounds to me like a piece of paranoid nationalism.
Not much to do with the noble philosophy of the "Founding Fathers," which found true sympathies in revolutionary France, and vice versa. This piece would not have.
You think the Constitution is about some piece of land?

There's 70+ million Baby Boomers in America....all about to kick the bucket.
There's still about 15 million OLDER than Baby Boomers....all about to kick the bucket.


America's about to lose +1/3rd of its population over the coming months.

Latino's become the majority and the World Forever Changes.....they'll do quick work of wiping away the last of the white people in North America.....The English language probably has another good 10-20 years and it won't even exist anymore.

Seriously.......that BaseBall game between Canada and Mexico that just had all those fights break out that just happened......Tip of the Iceburg.....Latino's are going to take their thrown by force.

Help them by supporting more Gun Bans and Firearm Laws to disarm the last of the white folk......

It'll make the last stages much easier for the Latino Mafia's / Drug Cartels.

Originally posted by Kokatsi
Sounds to me like a piece of paranoid nationalism.
Not much to do with the noble philosophy of the "Founding Fathers," which found true sympathies in revolutionary France, and vice versa. This piece would not have.
You think the Constitution is about some piece of land?

Thank you for your childish, and somewhat irrelevant, response.

Are you one of the local TROLLS?

Originally posted by Pervius
There's 70+ million Baby Boomers in America....all about to kick the bucket.
There's still about 15 million OLDER than Baby Boomers....all about to kick the bucket.


America's about to lose +1/3rd of its population over the coming months.

Latino's become the majority and the World Forever Changes.....they'll do quick work of wiping away the last of the white people in North America.....The English language probably has another good 10-20 years and it won't even exist anymore.

Seriously.......that BaseBall game between Canada and Mexico that just had all those fights break out that just happened......Tip of the Iceburg.....Latino's are going to take their thrown by force.

Help them by supporting more Gun Bans and Firearm Laws to disarm the last of the white folk......

It'll make the last stages much easier for the Latino Mafia's / Drug Cartels.

So are you saying we're all on the verge of dying off anyway? Haha! Fair point.

Actually, I hope that if things really do go awry, that I will already be gone. I don't want to have to go through all that. I didn't do anything to get all these people riled up.

It's so bad around here that people are talking about making note of the lowlifers and slimeballs around here (according to them) and the discussion is that if chaos really comes, they are going to kill them off to help preserve resources and get rid of them permanently so that after all the dust and smoke clears the rest of them can proceed without them. Not a bad idea, to clean house locally.

Just look at the thought processes. It's both terrible and pathetic.

What sort of solution would you suggest that is short of real hostilities?

What sort of rational and proper solutions would any of you folks suggest?

Suppose the assumptions are true, then what sort of things ought we do legally and rationally to put and end to the silliness?

Originally posted by akalepos
What sort of rational and proper solutions would any of you folks suggest?

Suppose the assumptions are true, then what sort of things ought we do legally and rationally to put and end to the silliness?

Well we are suppossed to be able to vote these douche bags out, and vote good leadership in, but the only people that ever make the ballot are tye same swine we want out, so voting is worthless. For proof of this, google ron paul getting screwed at the rnp, a clear majority didnt want romney, as he is just another yes man, with no intention of doing what is right.

So many, in their infinite " wisdom???? " thought it better to vote for the devil they know ( obama) instead of the devil they dont (romney).

There is only one course to fix things, and it isnt one most even want to contemplate, as they arent yet starving to eeath, or havent been forced into a slave worker program yet.

It has never ended peacefully in favor of the many, it only ever helps the people after they have to shed and lose blood, to make their point that they have trully had enough, only then do those greedy tyrants dissapear for a couple generations, before starting back over again.

Look at the arab spring, many would have you believe they changed their governments for tue better peacefully, butif that were true, than why are they all still burning down their countries protesting?

It takes a violent uprising to force a tyrant from power, as none ever leave on their own, unless forced out, by a more powerful tyrant, or the people, whichever happens first.

I dont think I am being to critical here, I think I am simply calling it how I see it today, and basing ky assertions on well established history lessons, which we as humans, seem to forget all too soon, before we run right back down the same road again.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by akalepos
What sort of rational and proper solutions would any of you folks suggest?

Suppose the assumptions are true, then what sort of things ought we do legally and rationally to put and end to the silliness?

Well we are suppossed to be able to vote these douche bags out, and vote good leadership in, but the only people that ever make the ballot are tye same swine we want out, so voting is worthless. For proof of this, google ron paul getting screwed at the rnp, a clear majority didnt want romney, as he is just another yes man, with no intention of doing what is right.

So many, in their infinite " wisdom???? " thought it better to vote for the devil they know ( obama) instead of the devil they dont (romney).

There is only one course to fix things, and it isnt one most even want to contemplate, as they arent yet starving to eeath, or havent been forced into a slave worker program yet.

It has never ended peacefully in favor of the many, it only ever helps the people after they have to shed and lose blood, to make their point that they have trully had enough, only then do those greedy tyrants dissapear for a couple generations, before starting back over again.

Look at the arab spring, many would have you believe they changed their governments for tue better peacefully, butif that were true, than why are they all still burning down their countries protesting?

It takes a violent uprising to force a tyrant from power, as none ever leave on their own, unless forced out, by a more powerful tyrant, or the people, whichever happens first.

I dont think I am being to critical here, I think I am simply calling it how I see it today, and basing ky assertions on well established history lessons, which we as humans, seem to forget all too soon, before we run right back down the same road again.

Your answer and suggestion isn't exactly pleasing, or as I would normally say: "edifying", but perhaps you are absolutely right.

Most people are completely disgusted with the voting process and this is reflected in voter turn out numbers.

But I would suggest that it isn't the voting process at all. Way too long we have been snookered by people who have sweet sounding platforms, who really go off on their own "schemes of injustice" ala Madison and Jay comments, once they get what they were after.

The federalist papers warn about people who are willing to say anything in order to obtain the suffrage (votes) of the people only to take a left turn as they pursue their own private interests once in office. They warned us to watch out for those people, and get rid of them, and we have not done a very good job at that.

Quite frankly when Elmer Fudd (George Bush jr.) got reelected, I felt badly for the mental capacity of what appeared to be the majority of Americans. Did they vote for him because he seemed like "one of them"?

I was wondering if we can demand some sort of recall system where any Governor, on any given day, can call an errant Congressman or Senator and demand his appearance before the state legislature within 48 hours in order to account for his vote that went contrary to the general will of his home state. And that the specific legislature can summarily fire that person, if he cannot sufficiently explain and excuse him/herself, and send a replacement who WILL vote in concert with the attitude of his home state, and that further, any such person fired from the job either be disallowed the wasteful "pension" they would receive from the federal government, or be fined an equivalent amount that would take that amount and place it in the state coffers, permanently and completely, instead of allowing someone to profit from his/her own iniquity.

So, bud, our problem is being able to identify these "Douche bags" and simply not vote for them. That's the tough part when they are busy telling you exactly what you want to hear. These people have the morals of a mule.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by akalepos
What sort of rational and proper solutions would any of you folks suggest?

Suppose the assumptions are true, then what sort of things ought we do legally and rationally to put and end to the silliness?

Well we are suppossed to be able to vote these douche bags out, and vote good leadership in, but the only people that ever make the ballot are tye same swine we want out, so voting is worthless. For proof of this, google ron paul getting screwed at the rnp, a clear majority didnt want romney, as he is just another yes man, with no intention of doing what is right.

So many, in their infinite " wisdom???? " thought it better to vote for the devil they know ( obama) instead of the devil they dont (romney).

There is only one course to fix things, and it isnt one most even want to contemplate, as they arent yet starving to eeath, or havent been forced into a slave worker program yet.

It has never ended peacefully in favor of the many, it only ever helps the people after they have to shed and lose blood, to make their point that they have trully had enough, only then do those greedy tyrants dissapear for a couple generations, before starting back over again.

Look at the arab spring, many would have you believe they changed their governments for tue better peacefully, butif that were true, than why are they all still burning down their countries protesting?

It takes a violent uprising to force a tyrant from power, as none ever leave on their own, unless forced out, by a more powerful tyrant, or the people, whichever happens first.

I dont think I am being to critical here, I think I am simply calling it how I see it today, and basing ky assertions on well established history lessons, which we as humans, seem to forget all too soon, before we run right back down the same road again.

I got you here. I really DO.

I just want to suggest that we take John Locke's advice and exhaust all legal avenues and appeals until IN FACT there is no appeal left BUT the "Appeal to Heaven"

Originally posted by akalepos

Originally posted by Kokatsi
Sounds to me like a piece of paranoid nationalism.
Not much to do with the noble philosophy of the "Founding Fathers," which found true sympathies in revolutionary France, and vice versa. This piece would not have.
You think the Constitution is about some piece of land?

Thank you for your childish, and somewhat irrelevant, response.

Are you one of the local TROLLS?

edit on 10-3-2013 by akalepos because: (no reason given)

Neither local, nor troll.
I was scared of a future "Americanism" in 1987 already - years before I took the oath to become a citizen.
I swore allegiance to the Constitution and the principles of equality and justice for all, not to a piece of land or an ethnic group.
Sorry.
The term scares me.
It is nationalism - pure and simple.
We have seen where it leads to.

You think "it can't happen here"? It is already happening.

I was scared of a future "Americanism" in 1987 already - years before I took the oath to become a citizen.
I swore allegiance to the Constitution and the principles of equality and justice for all, not to a piece of land or an ethnic group.
Sorry.
The term scares me.
It is nationalism - pure and simple.
We have seen where it leads to.

You think "it can't happen here"? It is already happening.

Ok. I can understand that.

I am not sure that nationalism is a thing that anyone ought to be afraid of, so I do misunderstand what you're getting at.

I know that the globalist platform has as one of it's goals is to sort of destroy or dismantle the nation state as a way to force everyone to be on the same page. In other words, eventually there might not be a Germany or Greece, and that sort of thing.

I can't agree with that notion.

Each of these cultural and language groups are entitled naturally, I think, to bond together and stay that way. The only difficulty I see is if those differences and and angry attitude behind it creates war between cultures simply because of the differences.

My idea of any "nationalistic" attitude here would serve the purpose of reestablishing our country and culture as it has been at the peaceful parts. I am not suggesting that somehow we backslide to former days that were not so cool. We need NO racial or sexual disharmony or anything like that, we just need to get off this drama queen Uber over reacting to "everything" and work ourselves back to the position where rationality is respected and used among the populace. I am a kid from the 50s and 60s and all I am saying that the "ugly parts" of what was happening aside, our collective stress level was better and the REAL social advances we have made were way overdue in the first place. Yet it seems like some group of people are not satisfied with our culture and customs and want to make us something else.

The man that wants to punish a kid over a poptart child thing NEEDS A PSYCHIATRIST, NOT a position of Power. THAT buffoon and the others like him MUST GO.


I would suggest that no REAL American would do that. Not ever. And YES... YOU are included as a REAL American. I don't mean to seem too arbitrary. I just thought originally that all you wanted to do was detract and confuse any positive direction the discussion would have gone. That is exactly what Trolls do, so I DO apologize for calling you a Troll.


So please explain your concern for the type of nationalism that makes you nervous.

You and I may not be talking about the same type, as we probably differ by degree.

I do not see that the nationalistic attitude that we had during the cold war was all that bad. I had to do the Nuke drills like everyone else. But it didn't particularly lead to much devastation. It just sort of kept us together and oriented.

That is all I would propose. To add to that I would say that the crippling psychological value of "political correctness" has exacerbated the situation by not allowing people to speak of things in proper terms. These Anti-Americans, as I like to call them, are just that. So some of THAT brainwashing has done it's job. We must both SHUCK and COUNTER it.

How are they Anti-Americans? View their actions.

I am NOT suggesting that we become as bad as Nazi Germany on OUR side, because then, we could easily pick out the wrong people to call "enemy" or what ever. I am just saying that we need to block and dissuade those who seem to have an Anti-American sentiment and are busy attempting to utilize Anti_American policies.

But I think that I can see that it absolutely could get completely out of control and grow into some sort of Monster. BUT if leaders of cooler heads arise to the fore front, we can keep something reasonable happening without it getting out of control.

I really cannot sign off on ANY group who is willing to tear everything to shreds. Not at all.

Civil War and utter Chaos is NOT what we need or want. But if it is the case that the government would be utilized to subvert and destroy America as we know if for their own satisfaction and insanity, it would be better for US to start shooting them first. I would suggest, based on Military experience, that we go for ALL of the leadership, if that's what it would take to stop the nonsense and find our way back to our former equilibrium.

As much as the suggestion is not very edifying or magnificent for us, the Bilderberg people that you may or may not recognize as existent are at the exact top of the list.

edit on 12-3-2013 by akalepos because: sp

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.
I do not see you as paranoid, I must apologize, but I do see a certain trend of thoughts, ideas and actions and I know that a certain false switch in thinking, with added momentum - anger and dissatisfaction - could lead to, and they did, in several forms in the country of my birth.

I grew up in a Soviet satellite (Hungary) where Communism did not really supplant nationalism - although formally Bolshevik schooling was "anti-fascist." Extreme nationalism - "we" are somehow genetically better than "them" - led to some of the worst horrors of World War and the Holocaust. The only reason why Hungary is not infamous in history is because it is quite small compared to Germany or Russia. The stories and the proportions were unimaginable. (One telling fact: the highest amount of Jewish and Gypsy victims in Auschwitz came from Hungary - a state of only 10 million people).

I grew up in a place where my grandparents could see Jewish victims being shot into the river Danube. My grandpa was hiding one family in the cellar when the city became uninhabitable because the Nazis were fighting the Russians. And I know the slogans that gradually led here.

All this was unbelievable to Americans when I was telling them about where I had come from in 1986-87. It was a remote area of history - like the Roman Empire. I taught in a high school in the late eighties, and students honestly thought that freedom meant that you could buy several brands of shoes in the shops.

Basically, I agree from my own experience that the 50's and the 60's produced a far more real and healthier life - I did not think of the drills I heard from older citizens as nationalistic. I thought you guys back then were supposed to defend the "free world" which - together with its faults - was certainly freer than the system I grew up in.

I would say I was highly attracted to the free world, I got a political asylum, and I thought America was the quintessential "free world." (And I was partially right.) Because of the political philosophy, I started to cultivate American culture, music, writers, etc. and when I actually got there I learned about traditions. Since all this was most represented by a nation mostly interacting in English, I decided to cultivate my English as much as I could. I made friends, I did many kinds of work and I raised a child in the US (we still speak English as a primary tongue though we do not presently live in the US). So you could also say that in a certain sense I know an honest way how one can associate values with a nation, a concrete heritage. I also realized that this had deep historical roots, it was no chance that these values were represented by the majority of the founders of modern-day America.

Yet my advice would be to future generations to make it an important point of philosophical and political discussion that the order of importance should be reversed - the values must come first and national roots and traditions second.

Germany was no doubt the number one nation in Europe before the war in terms of the quality of everyday life, engineering, culture and music - yet they collectively started to believe that they were all inherently better not because of Beethoven, Einstein, or the superior cutlery made in Sollingen (some of the products of which still work after 80 years), but merely because all these people spoke German and had roots in the Deutsche Kulturkreis.

The American friends I made in the eighties who had no minority roots but English and white were mostly very humble about national things. Some were not patriotic in the political sense - they were very critical of their own nation. I actually regarded this as a virtue. And while wandering about in many countries, finally settling in America, I found that the more backwards and repressive a country was, the stronger the voices of nationalism were.

Originally posted by Pervius
There's 70+ million Baby Boomers in America....all about to kick the bucket.
There's still about 15 million OLDER than Baby Boomers....all about to kick the bucket.


America's about to lose +1/3rd of its population over the coming months.

Latino's become the majority and the World Forever Changes.....they'll do quick work of wiping away the last of the white people in North America.....The English language probably has another good 10-20 years and it won't even exist anymore.

Seriously.......that BaseBall game between Canada and Mexico that just had all those fights break out that just happened......Tip of the Iceburg.....Latino's are going to take their thrown by force.

Help them by supporting more Gun Bans and Firearm Laws to disarm the last of the white folk......

It'll make the last stages much easier for the Latino Mafia's / Drug Cartels.

Amazing how the same things were said about the Irish, Italians, Chinese, Blacks etc. over Americas history and yet some how it all just turned out be talk by racist bigots.

Well, I was safely lost in the shifting political sands of nationalistic paranoia until this statement:

"Germany was no doubt the number one nation in Europe before the war in terms of the quality of everyday life, engineering, culture and music"

On what planet with a country called Germany are you referring to?

From about 1920 until the takeover by the National Socialist in 1933 the Kaiserland was awash in unemployment, strife. alcoholism, drug addiction, rampant crime, a black market that exceeded the GNP, there were separatist factions in all the provinces, uprising in the Ruhr, a coup in Berlin, by the end of the decade half the population was starving.
The City of Berlin became the smut and sordid sex capitol of the world. Open air child prostitution shops dominated Potsdamer Platz with epidemics of gonorrhea and Syphilis were rampant even among children.

Yes, there was an upper class of elites who fared somewhat better, however they to were dragged down by the suffering of the masses and addiction to laudanum were common place among the women of the elite classes.

I am not accusing you of being one of Oprah's 'holocaust survivors' however a statement that Germany fared better that the rest of Europe during the 1920's is utter foolishness.

On this point I agree with you, Germany did not "fare" better after WW1, it fared far worse than other similar countries and undeservedly so. In fact, had it not been for this sudden discrepancy, Fascism would have probably not taken hold of Germany.

What I alluded to was not the economy of the post-1920 world. Germany lost the war, and on top of that, it was a victim of a fraudulent and vindictive agreement that led to Versailles. Few people keep track these days that Germany laid down arms in 1919 together with its allies on the agreed condition that no war reparations would be demanded by the victors and no loss of territory. The entente, with Britain, France and the USA leading, simply cheated on both of these conditions - which fact, according to most historians, doubtlessly contributed to the later spread of Nazi ideology. Germans did lay down their arms, and when they approached the tables of Versailles, they were faced with the fact that the entente demanded huge, unpayable amounts of reparations, and they were also supposed to lose huge areas of their land with mostly German-speaking population, full of railways and mines. That the economy was in ruins was for the most part due to the fault of the war reparations the victorious West demanded. The behavior of the victors of the First World War, according to communication scientist Gregory Bateson, basically betrayed European moral values stretching back to the middle ages. It was an unconscionable betrayal. While the total ripoff which created the economic chaos and the general moral outrage at the simple betrayal at the Versailles Peace Treaty do not justify the violent nationalism that culminated in the Nazi Empire, I don't think the birth of Nazism could be understood without this elephant in the china store.
The vengeful attitude (mostly displayed by French leader Clemenceau, and only grudgingly condoned by President Wilson) stood in stark contrast to the status and quality of German culture, engineering, science etc. Germany was recognized all around what was called the "Deutsche Kulturkreis" - all those non-German peoples where German was widely spoken and read as one of the most important languages of Europe. Some of the leading scientists and engineers of the age came from there (plus Austria and Hungary). English only became the number one language of Europe after WW2.

Most people with higher education in pre-war Europe (apart from a strong French column) did speak and read some German, it was inconceivable to get a real education without that in music, linguistics, engineering, including basic research in science. Plus, for tens of millions of people in the Eastern part of Europe, German language was obligatory from school. There were German minorities in Russia, the Ukraine, Hungary, Poland, etc. and Eastern European Jewry also spoke Yiddish, a dialect of German.

It was precisely the stark contrast between the status of Germany and the post-war chaos and poverty, the prostitution etc. you mentioned that laid the foundations of the later horrors of Nazism.