People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

Originally posted by SantaClaus
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Beautifully stated. No system will work without the proper components. Unfortunately for us, those components are our fellow man.

This is probably why we have to take systems of economics/politics and remember that they're just one strand of our way of life. There's so many other areas we also need to have our own kind of revolution in, and yeah, it's a huge task. We've basically been screwed in loads of ways and it's clear to see, but there's got to be hope that we can work it out eventually. To basically evolve past all of this.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


To topic, and perhaps not so far off the above really. I think Socialism CAN work, but only will succeed under limited circumstances. The Northern European/Scandinavian Nations have found that mix and I think like minded people are the most important part. Everyone has to be generally pulling in the same direction or it pulls itself apart. If imposed, it's doomed to failure from it's inception since control and dominance is a necessary part of bringing it into existence, right?

Yes, but I would argue that those nations are not pure socialist and have ahealthy dose of capitalism/free-market democracy...and that if they didn't they would fail. China tried pure socialism, but had to race to instill capitalism...and a whole lot of it...before they risked collapse.....always a mixture to survive.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I wonder sometimes if the end result to all this won't be better off with the U.S. ending up in 2 or 3 allied but separate states within the borders of what is now the whole? Like a Northern US and Southern US. The lines wouldn't be so clean or aligned that way now, but you know what I mean. The far ends of the ideologies are just SO FAR apart ...and I'd say 30% of each side cover the growing extremes.

I would argue no. As divided as we are, our greatest strength has always been diversity...even when those divergent ideas clash fiercly. An alloy stronger than steel...the melting pot isn't just about different cultures, it's about different competitive ideas.

We can divide up, but each fragment would be weaker than the whole...even when that whole is idealogically divided.

just my opinion though.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Disagree. "Societies" should be "Socialist" only as much as the most basic needs are met and not a drop more or less.

What does this even mean? Socialism by it's nature causes shortages of the most basic of commoditites, so you just ruined your whole argument in one fell swoop.

I don't think you understand "Socialism"...nor my argument...every society has a dose of "socialism" or they would not exist as societies.

reply to post by robhines


At their core, government and economy are practices in philosophical sociology. In order for anything to be successful, all members (or most members) in a group must be supportive of their fellow members in order to gain their riches. In America, we do everything we can to downplay our peers, snuff small business and make the poor look so bad that it would be hard for them to start a successful business to begin with.

America has been a very sad example of capitalism. We like to think we're a world power, and right now, we are. But in the grand scheme, we are less than a drop in the bucket.

reply to post by Cabin



Why shouldn't those who use deception also be deceived? There is true justice right there.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by robhines
No states, no class warfare, no money. The only thing even I can't grasp is how you have no money and just work then go and get what you need. I can't fathom too well at the moment how that would work, but yeah, we're talking real utopian stuff I guess, maybe I should come back down to earth shortly and look at our current situation more, because I'm casting my mind out way too far into a future that I have no idea even exists.

You never watched Star Trek?

Of course! But our reality isn't exactly Star Trek is it!

the reason socialism fails on earth is you need free energy
then government coffers fill beyond belief

also allowing people to work only a few hrs a day with all needs provided for by gov

cash becomes obsolete, NO Banksters!

thats why (Rossi cold fusion) is not getting granted a patent but some bankster crony will to shelve it

cold fusion was debunked by fusion scientists about to get huge grants

money is not in advanced societies throughout the cosmos, they dont need money

thats one reason why your told you come from the monkey and the universe is sterile when its WILD!

earth is quarantined because the fanatic mulahs and christians will spread the madness, star men are as gullible as we are, religion is far worse than nukes, also earth has been a dumping ground for unsavory types and also had the watchers rebellion so its quarantined, advanced societies dont kill criminals they banish them, the bad really old spirits are called demons, like all spirits they can only re-incarnate on the planet they die on so are trapped

star trek was written by the Plejaren as a guide on how to behave in space if we want to survive, be like Picard or Sisko or Janeway, remember it they show you howto take care of things, important things

most people will think i am crazy, thats ok i can only try

your spirit is from the universe (The Creation)
ask your spirit for what you want not one of the gods and you shall receive
ask your spirit for The Creation's Teaching so you can be enlightened, (to be Born)

Originally posted by toolshed
I don't know how you are going to force the US into some commie socialist system whenever you can barely run up a set of stairs without taking a break.

As long as people seriously BELIEVE that anyone "wants to force the US into a commie socialist system", I don't even think there is a point in debating.

You are just the prime example of those people who can only think in two extremes, black/white, where ANY modification or change to the existing system (which OBVIOUSLY effing failed) must "automatically" result in "commie socialism". (Aside from the fact that the idea of "commie socialism" in the US and actually most other countries these days is hilarious. Even Russia abandoned "commie socialism" more or less, no country exists anymore where "commie socialism" is conducted, maybe with the exception of Cuba).

As long as you can only think in kindergarten stereotypes (Obama and the liberals/leftists waving red flags with Marx/Lenin on it etc..) it's wasted time to even debate with such people). This, by the way, is one major flaw of your entire political system since many of you guys CAN only think in extremes, a political system where there is no middle-ground, where one side must be 100% opposed to the other, where only "patriots" exists and then then "communists" on the other side, and that's about it. It's hilarious to look at, really.

To all those requesting an example of a country where socialism is succeeding I give you the following article from Bloomberg

Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.

www.bloomberg.com...

On July 1 (2012), Canada Day, Canadians awoke to a startling, if pleasant, piece of news: For the first time in recent history, the average Canadian is richer than the average American.

According to data from Environics Analytics WealthScapes published in the Globe and Mail, the net worth of the average Canadian household in 2011 was $363,202, while the average American household’s net worth was $319,970.

A few days later, Canada and the U.S. both released the latest job figures. Canada’s unemployment rate fell, again, to 7.2 percent, and America’s was a stagnant 8.2 percent. Canada continues to thrive while the U.S. struggles to find its way out of an intractable economic crisis and a political sine curve of hope and despair.

The difference grows starker by the month: The Canadian system is working; the American system is not.

The picture might change and probably has changed but good management of a type of socialism can be done and is being done outside the US. One could argue that difficulties being experienced in economies around the world at this time are a direct result of unbridled American style gangster capitalism.

It boils down to simply this: socialism and marxism are the politics of the lazy, capitalism is the politics of the individual.

You either believe in your individual right to be free or you're a socialist/communist.

I have no use for people who relinquish freedom for security. They're cowards. And they're my enemy.

Originally posted by tangonine
It boils down to simply this: socialism and marxism are the politics of the lazy, capitalism is the politics of the individual.

It does not.

You either believe in your individual right to be free or you're a socialist/communist.

No you don't and aren't.

I have no use for people who relinquish freedom for security.

Why would you want to use other people? Are you a crypto-commie masquerading as a misanthropist?

They're cowards.

They are not.

And they're my enemy.

Prove it.

reply to post by FyreByrd

The Constitution of the USA is the same - it's a good set of rules and ideals but was never meant to me static and unchanging. The inflexable, dare I say, conservative interpretation of the Consistution is lacking any understanding of the simple fact that times, people and institutions change that require new guidelines and ideals.

How nice of you to spell out the socialist agenda.

The problem with socialism (and define it however you want) is the people who do not want to go along with those new changes usually end up dead. It is fun watching the spin that the left throws out to get rid of the peoples rights.

The proletariat are achieving class consciousness worldwide, what better way to confuse them than to make them think that the next stage in the natural progression (post class divisions.) is the opposite to what they should be working towards. Misinform them so that they actually strengthen corporate rule instead of moving beyond it.

Secondly, maybe the whole idea of taking marxism and truly evolving it in the present day, is for each one of us to also evolve within, then maybe we'll see that a population of people that are awake to spiritual truths as well as worldy truths can adapt to the current problems in a way that could never have been predicted.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by tangonine
It boils down to simply this: socialism and marxism are the politics of the lazy, capitalism is the politics of the individual.

It does not.

You either believe in your individual right to be free or you're a socialist/communist.

No you don't and aren't.

I have no use for people who relinquish freedom for security.

Why would you want to use other people? Are you a crypto-commie masquerading as a misanthropist?

They're cowards.

They are not.

And they're my enemy.

Prove it.

Just disagreeing with me doesn't give you credibility. Take a number and find your way to the end of the line.

And for the English endangered species, I'll throw out this bit of learnin' "I have no use for your" is terminology used to describe someone(s) of whose opinion you do not respect.

Read: "you are dismissed and you mean nothing to me."

I hate having to spell it out for the slow kids.

Your nitwittery reply is noted, and logged.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
How nice of you to spell out the socialist agenda.

The problem with socialism (and define it however you want) is the people who do not want to go along with those new changes usually end up dead. It is fun watching the spin that the left throws out to get rid of the peoples rights.

No, that's fascism (see Stalin who corrupted things instead of Marx.) You should maybe research marxism and socialism without an inner bias properly to get a better idea of what it's about, because it sure isn't about enslaving people if done properly.

An agenda by the powers that be doesn't work if the upper class have their power removed, and if you think that isn't the case I'd love to know how you work that out. If you do have a response to this remember that any system that comes to power and makes things worse than they currently are certainly isn't socialism, because it's impossible that a population working together can be worse than this mess. This is slavery. Working together and sharing ownership of the places we work in (meaning that we're also removed from the slavery of the greedy bosses using people for ever increasing profit, which is what a corporation is all about and also impossible and doomed to failure.) after having removed the manipulation of the upper classes isn't.

Corporations exist to earn profit. The laws that keep that in place will either be wiped out or we'll be wiped out as a species.

Originally posted by tangonine
Just disagreeing with me doesn't give you credibility.

It would be enough for me.

Take a number and find your way to the end of the line.

That should be no problem with a number.

And for the English endangered species, I'll throw out this bit of learnin' "I have no use for your" is terminology used to describe someone(s) of whose opinion you do not respect.

Thanks for straightening that out.

Read: "you are dismissed and you mean nothing to me."

Thanks for straightening it out again.

I hate having to spell it out for the slow kids.

Well, thanks for going the extra mile.

Your nitwittery reply is noted, and logged.

Something you hate to do, right?

I thought I'd spelled it out like Sesame street but let's go pre-school for the learning impaired:

Socialism is based on the good of the collective. That means you, as a high achiever, gain nothing. You'll be folded into the bell curve. You as the lazy underachiever don't need to give anything as you'll be folded into the bell curve.

The individual. The You. is lost in the collective.

If you don't understand that then, I pity you.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by tangonine
Just disagreeing with me doesn't give you credibility.

It would be enough for me.

Take a number and find your way to the end of the line.

That should be no problem with a number.

And for the English endangered species, I'll throw out this bit of learnin' "I have no use for your" is terminology used to describe someone(s) of whose opinion you do not respect.

Thanks for straightening that out.

Read: "you are dismissed and you mean nothing to me."

Thanks for straightening it out again.

I hate having to spell it out for the slow kids.

Well, thanks for going the extra mile.

Your nitwittery reply is noted, and logged.

Something you hate to do, right?

The irony is in your avatar. The greater good for the sacrifice of the individual. You, absolutely, are my enemy. And since you haven't offered a cognizant argument, you're dismissed.

The trite and sophomoric comments above don't merit a reply. You're small ball. You can't actually think critically, can you?

By the way Americans : we're going to have to be integrated as a species for us to truly move on. Either a solution will come from outside your country that you'll also have to adapt to as we go on, or somehow you'll end up overcoming the crap that you're going through and the rest of the world will end up adapting to the way you've managed to do things. But either way, we're going to have to be on the same page one day.

Just sipping some Mexican beer. I'd be a whole lot happier knowing that the people who made it owned the place they worked in rather than being wage slaves.