Brazilian pope with Italian sec.of state: possible deal?

A ticket to vote for the first Latin-American Pope
vaticaninsider.lastampa.it...

Brazil's Cardinal Odilo Scherer is being proposed as a candidate to be next Pope by some Italian cardinals from the Roman Curia, including Sodano and Re, but they also want an Italian as Secretary of State

reply to post by 2012newstart


Well now that is a possibility I hadn't even considered... A Pope bringing strong influence from the South American Catholic community could be a real breath of fresh air and needed change. It would certainly be a shift from the traditional European Church influence. Wow... Times are odd, and not always in negative ways.

how many hundreds of millions devote people pray for that intention right now in Latin America? Together with at least 3 ongoing apparitions of Virgin Mary in Brazil alone (at least), that makes a spiritual power that may be the necessary antidote to today's grave problems of the Catholic church.

I don't accept the theories that Petrus Romanus will be evil "a priori". they are unfounded, and may be even provoked by the evil one in shadow. The next pope has every chance to make a fresh start. Especially if he comes from a different, more spiritual place. Still, the problems await him from Day 1 in St Peter's cathedral. If it is going to be cardinal Sherer, He'd better be prepared for what is expecting him, and what is expected from him by the billions. A Change ASAP on all levels of the church life. Otherwise he'd better refuse, as Ratzinger should do in 2005.

NO ONE knows what is going on with the Cardinals.
Anything being discussed like this is pure speculation.
No one has inside information. No one.

Someone knows
But
HE is a much higher authority

Why are the greatest centers of religious belief also the greatest centers of ignorance (Catholic, Islam, whatever)? Why are the most educated regions of the world rejecting religion?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
NO ONE knows what is going on with the Cardinals.
Anything being discussed like this is pure speculation.
No one has inside information. No one.

I am not that sure. I even suppose cardinals Sodano and Re leaked it themselves, because in our modern century it is quite outdated to make deals like that behind screen and better inform the curious society in advance than to leave it understand post factum. very vise move, I congratulate them for that! Surely similar deals have been made about the Polish pope John Paul II, who had only Italian secretaries of state. There is nothing bad in such deals.

I think cardinal Sherer is the most logical choice, after the US cardinals said it is not wise to elect North American. If Sherer refuses or somehow they don't agree, the other options are not that many. If we are talking of agreement of 2/3++ and not stalemate for long time. The majority non-Italians wouldn't agree on Italian.

Originally posted by Grumble
Why are the greatest centers of religious belief also the greatest centers of ignorance (Catholic, Islam, whatever)? Why are the most educated regions of the world rejecting religion?

I don't know why it happens with Rome what we all can see it happens.
I know there are 3 apparitions in Brazil: Anguera, Itapiranga (approved by bishop) and Sao Jose dos Pinhais.

In addition to the sex scandals, the new pope must address immediately the lost part of Fatima, quick re-consecration of Russia, and others.

reply to post by Beartracker16

I suppose if a sinkhole opens under Vatican City, we'll know His vote was in the negative, eh?

This is such an odd way to 'elect' someone who is supposed to be seen as the embodiment of the Church. Just a regular guy winning a political contest, by the sound of it. A whole different kind, perhaps, but still a contest of internal politics when it's all said and done.

we all know how the rules of election are in the Roman catholic church, and they date back long ago. They differ from the elections of patriarchs in other Apostolic churches who have a bigger involvement of religious and laity outside of the top bishops (or equivalent to cardinals in Rome).

If there is a popular vote, it is clear who wins. However it is not a popular vote. I think the cardinals do very wise to make the choice that most of the Catholics on this planet would have made if they were asked to do so. The church has some 800 mln members living in the Third World, in conditions far below the Western, and it is final time to concentrate attention on that. Even the sex scandals that are so disputed in the Western countries, are not the biggest global issue of the Catholic church. Even the abortions that are so terrible issue in USA, are not a big issue in Latin America where most of the countries ban most of the abortions. What to say about gay marriages. The Catholic Church is not the Church of the West alone. The sooner we grasp that reality the better.

A pope with a hi-spirituality, no matter his name and country, would likely bring to a positive end the unending drama of Fatima too. It would be pity if after nearly a century efforts of millions of simple humble people who just prayed and sacrificed, the warning of Our Lady will materialize. And we don't even know what it is. We will know it when it happens, soon, if no reaction is made on time. According to leaked parts we are off by some 13 years the divine schedule, 13 granted years if not more. Others say 1985 would be the year of the nuclear war. I don't know who is the right one. I know the time is very little, both for nuclear and for planetary cataclysm. I hope cardinal Sherer and his closest aides have the capability to perform the necessary consecration and revelation of the missing parts literally on Day 2 of his election, thanks to the modern technology (all catholic bishops around the world are connected via supermodern satellite intranet link). And thanks to all those angels and graces that Our Lady sends thru apparitions.

reply to post by 2012newstart


I get the impression you very strongly feel the unknown details of the Fatima revelations are critical in a near term way?

I haven't honestly given it much thought except for the rather unsettled feeling I get in thinking about how the revelations and visions effected those who received them. Obviously, it was no small thing to them ...yet we seem to be told we know all there was to know from it and I've yet to hear anything so bad as to explain the reactions?

You believe the Fatima issue is playing as large in the Vatican as it is in your thoughts? I'm honestly curious on this, too. Nothing the least bit confrontational is intended. I was raised around the Catholic Church but not within it. My knowledge would be more than passing but far less than fluent in the topics.

List of papabili according to moynihanreport.itvworking.com...

1. Odilo Pedro Scherer, 63, archbishop of Sao Paolo, Brazil;
2. Marc Ouellet, 67, Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops in the Vatican; formerly archbishop of Quebec, Canada;
3. Angelo Scola, 72, archbishop of Milan, Italy;
4. Luis Antonio Tagle, 56, archbishop of Manila, the Philippines;
5. Gianfranco Ravasi, 70, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture and formerly Prefect of the Ambrosian Library in Milan;
6. Angelo Bagnasco, 70, archbishop of Genoa, Italy;
7. Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, 56, head of the Council for Justice and Peace in the Vatican, formerly archbishop of Cape Coast, Ghana;
8. Peter Erdo, 61, archbishop of Esztergom-Budapest, Hungary;
9. Jorge Mario Bergoglio, 77, archbishop of Buenos Aires, Argentina;
10. Sean Patrick O’Malley, O.F.M.Cap., archbishop Of Boston, Massachusetts, USA;
11. Timothy Dolan, 63, archbishop of New York, New York, USA;
12. Laurent Monsengwo Pasinya, 74, archbishop of Kinshasa, Congo;
13. Donald William Wuerl, 73, archbishop of Washington, D.C., USA;
14. Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga, 70, archbishop of Tegucigalpa, Honduras;
15. Joao Braz de Aviz, 65, Prefect of the Congregation for Religious and the Institutes of Consecrated Life in the Vatican, from Brazil;
16. Francisco Robles Ortega, 63, archbishop of Guadalajara, Mexico;
17. Tarcisio Bertone, 78, Secretary of State in the Vatican, formerly archbishop of Genoa, Italy;
18. Kurt Koch, 62, head of the Vatican’s Council for Christian Unity, formerly archbishop of Basel, Switzerland;
19. Christoph Schoenborn, 68, archbishop of Vienna, Austria;
20. Leonardo Sandri, 70, Prefect of the Congregation for Oriental Churches, born in Argentina;
21. Robert Sarah, 70, President of the Pontifical Council “Cor Unum,” formerly archbishop of Conakry, Guinea.

Obviously, we can remove the American cardinals after the refusal of one of them speaking for all. I guess we can well remove another Eastern European after the longest reign of John Paul II. Second German is unlikely, and that is the biggest problem for the modern-minded and very devoted to Our Lady in Medjugorje cardinal Schoenborn. A number of cardinals approach steadily towards 80 and perhaps no one wants to see a repetition of 2005 conclave. Especially when the elect one may be the last one before...you call it. So the list shrinks to several names, who have enough energy to make the change. Maradiaga is one of them and he was recently attacked from Jewish groups of some words. Peter Turkson, with all respect, already works in the Vatican and is involved with the NWO proposal, so he gets little chance unless the cardinals want a NWO proposal to be supported before the UN. I see other names that are young and good, as Ortega, Mexico, or Tagle, Manila. Let hope the cardinals will make the right election now, if they insist the election should be among themselves only. Archbishop Kreieger the primate of Brazil could be a noncardinal candidate, if they want to break taboo from top to bottom. Don't know if it will happen this time. None the least the next pope must have the capability and courage to deal with the extraterrestrials that are on the next door already.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I made several loooong threads on Fatima you can find them by clicking on my profile. There I speculate of known and unknown. Yes it is that important. The simplest is to avoid WW3. But in the years after 2000 it more goes towards surviving planetary cataclysm. I don't know and nobody until now told us except for the well known official parts. I doubt it deals with the church alone. It deals with the entire humanity. Especially after 2000 or around, a number of new apparitions were sent to earth by God. Medjugorje is just one of them (in investigation). Brazil seems much more abundant in that and her bishops much more opent to the possibility Our Lady to speak directly. As far as cataclysms go, read Anguera in the years 2005 - 2010. I hope you will find it either in the official site or in some reprints. It is just too much already given to mankind for repentance, and the sin multiplies on global scale. Not to talk about bio experiments between human and different species on embryonic level, or between human cells and electronic devices. it happens for years. It will bring what if not stopped? Sure medicine benefittes in certain cases. But is it the way and does it approve all research that involves real embrios. This is a time bomb. The new pope must be fast because the hidden reality is mind blowing.

the story gets steam and that may well be the way out of the current standoff and crisis.
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/9905826/Non-European-pope-could-pair-up-with-Vatican-official-in-presidential-style-ticket .html

Non-European pope could pair up with Vatican official 'in presidential-style ticket'
Cardinals gathering Rome are reportedly considering electing the first ever non-European pope, who could pair up with a Vatican official as his secretary of a state, in a scenario likened to a presidential ticket.

Marco Tosatti, a Vatican expert, said that Brazil's Odilo Scherer, 63, the archbishop of Sao Paulo, was now being supported by two key Vatican officials, former secretary of state Tarcisio Bertone, who is taking on the role of Chamberlain during the conclave, and Angelo Sodano, the dean of the College of Cardinals, who is overseeing the pre-conclave meetings. "Scherer is a great preacher, has a beautiful baritone voice, speaks Italian and worked in Rome at the congregation of bishops for eight years," said Mr Tosatti. Although conclave rules would forbid the next pope agreeing in advance to a candidate to work at his side, Mr Tosatti said that Argentine Leonardo Sandri, who has years of experience inside the Vatican and "could be suggested by Sodano as a secretary of state."

Wait, which pope fits in the malachy prophecy? Does this guy fit? If not id suppose hes not going to be pope..

reply to post by FlyersFan


of course i am only speculating,,,, the Cardinals have not all yet arrived at the Vatican as yet for the conclave


but... i have noticed that the 'Baltic' area has people with old Latin names from when the Catholics purged Paganism from the nations around the Baltic Sea...
names like Romanus are not unknown for that area... Norway/Sweden/Latvia/Estonia/Lithuania even Belarus and Poland might have a 'Petus Romanus' as a not unusual name & family lineage among the popuklation..


i think that all of Latin America has profoundly both Spanish or Portuguese roots
ergo a petra or peter .... along with a Rome, Romanus would not be a likely name for a personal name or an elected Pope's taken name for their Pontificate...

then on the face of it.... this may not be the 'LAST' Pope as prophecied by Saint Malachy


a person from the formerly Pagan 'Baltic" states region seems more likely to produce a Petrus Romanus
or final Pope