The Fall guy and the loser its Satan and God!

reply to post by AQuestion

1. Do you give humans credit for anything that they do right?
2. Do you believe that we each make our own choices or do you believe our choices are predetermined and that we are not responsible for them?
3. Do you wish to be God or would you rather know God?
4. Would you be willing to experience 15 minutes of absolute hell in order that no other sentient being would ever have to?

1. Yes.
2. We have free will.
3. I wish to establish a communicative partnership with "God", if he were to exist. That means my opinion bears just as much weight as his, as it is my life. This also means that any deviation on my part from his optimal course of action will not be treated as an opportunity to punish my independence.
4. I would wish for every sentient creature to experience both the best and the worst of what their reality has to offer, as it will promote empathy and compassion towards its fellow creatures as it learns to understand other perspectives in said reality.

reply to post by Agarta


Dear Agarta,

My response was only to Akragon and I consider him a very dear friend. He and I are more than welcome to communicate U2U. I do not know you, I know him. Peace.

reply to post by chishuppu


Dear chishuppu,

I never gave an excuse for anything, that is different. We as humans are capable of great evil as you can see, my statement in way was to point out that the current thoughts of what God and Satan are are wrong. We are all responsible for our own actions, but the problem is that the human ptb have us in a system that cause a lot of conflict especially since its failing. Put us in an environment where we are all in equal footing and you will see harmony or less violence. Anywhere where some have more than others will cause a major issue because those that don't have need to get from those that do. The sense, am I making it?

Jesus told us to be good slaves. That sucks; but, it is the truth. Yes, the tptb are scum suckers and it does not matter, what we do for one another matters and we always have the choice of helping or hurting. That defines us and it is the only thing that does. Challenges in life allow us to understand ourselves better, pain is transient; but, love can be eternal. That is my answer and now I am going back to sleep.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Dear AfterInfinity,

4. I would wish for every sentient creature to experience both the best and the worst of what their reality has to offer, as it will promote empathy and compassion towards its fellow creatures as it learns to understand other perspectives in said reality.

. We are in agreement even if we don't agree on all the details.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Dear AfterInfinity,

4. I would wish for every sentient creature to experience both the best and the worst of what their reality has to offer, as it will promote empathy and compassion towards its fellow creatures as it learns to understand other perspectives in said reality.

. We are in agreement even if we don't agree on all the details.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I've found it's best not to concern one's self with satan once the strong man has been bound because at that point he doesn't have anything to offer of any value whatsoever.

So what was "satan" then goes down the drain, chained, into the abyss, no matter how much he may thrash and wail, and that's oblivion, so there's nothing to feel sorry for, because "satan" was just a faulty way of thinking and being, at best, a systemic phenomenon of a mental illness based in ignorance.

There's nothing to fear and we should not get caught up in dualities when speaking of God the holy one and his angels of light and love.

Let hell fall away, and that's what happens at the end of the Bible.

It's of no concern.

reply to post by AQuestion


Thank you for two things, first thank you for holding what seems to be a private conversation on a public board. Maybe you should refrain from doing so just in case another member might question you like I did and Second Thank you for snubbing me publicly on a public forum.

As it so happens Akragon and I have had several conversations as well, mostly on the boards and If I am not mistaken in the chat room as well so you have no monopoly there. As for not knowing me, then apparently I have not made any type of impression on you as you and I have had several conversations over the last 2 years as well, but that does not give you a rhyme or reason for being rude when asked a question on a public board.

It seems to me that you are, yet again for a third time, avoiding the question posed. That too is okay as it simply shows your true colors. Instead of simply saying, "Ya know, I really don't know much about them" you chose to go on the attack and not even bother to admit what little knowledge you have while speaking negatively.

Please do not embarrass yourself any further by looking them up and finding some perceived negative to throw out onto the boards in order to help save face in public, but please do go and do some research so you don't look so ignorant in the future.

reply to post by Agarta


Dear Agarte,

Ask me anything. As far as my relationship with Akragon goes, well, that is our relationship. Akragon is incredibly sarcastic (which I like), inciteful and charming. You are more than welcome to not like me, it is a big club you are just one more. I trust Akragon and I will not tolerate people telling me how he and I should relate to each other. I poked fun at him and was told that I secretly hated him and that was complete garbage. He is one of the few whose opinion I respect. You do not get to correct me for what I say to him, he is more than welcome to correct on anything we disagree on, And he may do such thing in public. Would you like to address the real issue of the OP? I am willing to.

Originally posted by Agarta
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Please do not embarrass yourself any further by looking them up and finding some perceived negative to throw out onto the boards in order to help save face in public, but please do go and do some research so you don't look so ignorant in the future.

edit on 2-3-2013 by Agarta because: Spelling

Dear Agarte,

Sorry if I am have embarrassed myself, have I done it more? I believe what I believe and say what I mean. How can that ever be embarrassing? Even if my words are completely stupid, how can I embarrass myself by saying what I believe? It is not about being right, it is about being truthful. Try it sometime, it wont hurt you.

reply to post by AQuestion


Since you two are bantering back and forth about me... let me join in the fun...

Ye know that Akragon guy posted a thread a while back called Understanding the indescribable which was directly from a Gnostic text...

What a crazy cat!! [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5666611dd36b.gif[/atsimg]

Though you know... after reading that thread I've noticed he didn't get many arguments from the Christian community... And even got an interesting Cudos by Flyersfan who is a Catholic member

I didn't really get an answer about personal issues with "Gnostic's"...

So perhaps i'll just talk to myself here...

Madness!!

What?!?! Where??!?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I wish to establish a communicative partnership with "God", if he were to exist. That means my opinion bears just as much weight as his, as it is my life. This also means that any deviation on my part from his optimal course of action will not be treated as an opportunity to punish my independence.

You are trying to place yourself as an equal with God....
You seem to be forgetting that your "life" was given to you by God. Your egoistical approach to this matter and your sense of entitlement are clouding up your understanding of God.

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

Hello dear friend.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Satan dared to be his own master, and said he would show humans how do do the same. I fail to see what's wrong with that.

He didn't "dare to be his own master".
He was pretty close to annihilation.. but his earlier faith in God saved him. He later grew proud and looked down upon mankind as "inferior" because man was made of earth, while he was made of (what he thought was a superior material) - fire.

He didn't show humans how to be their own master... he only planned to mislead humans into hell. He could do this only with the active participation of human will.

Be warned, Satan is not a friend or a role model.

If humans can flourish without the hand of a deity, that's something to be proud of, right?

By "flourish" do you mean make money, live well, enjoy life? Well, some people do... and some don't.
Its irrelevant in the larger picture. Because there is more to life than our material existence here on earth... its what happens after that counts. Whether or not you go back home alive after a days work is in the hands of God. Humans cannot postpone their deaths even by a single hour.

If "God" wants us to worship him, then obviously he looks down on us too. Otherwise, he would encourage us to become gods too.

God is worthy of worship.
He does not "look down" upon his creations because they are made of a certain material.

reply to post by AQuestion


I replied via u2u to avoid further derailment of the thread.

reply to post by Akragon


I had read it but took it as something to contemplate as you asked at the beginning. I will read it again and post my thoughts.

reply to post by Agarta


ok, i will respond tomorrow. I consider Akragon a friend and will not hear how people believe we are not. Only he can tell me that we are not and he did not say that for a reason. He knows how much I respect him.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


According to who? Your "holy" book that was written by the other side? You are probably one of those people that believe that Lucifer is Satan.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

He was pretty close to annihilation.. but his earlier faith in God saved him. He later grew proud and looked down upon mankind as "inferior" because man was made of earth, while he was made of (what he thought was a superior material) - fire.

Does "God" not view us the same way? Why else would he demand our souls in return for immortality? Whether we live or die, he is still a deity, correct? He doesn't need us, but we need him. That's a dangerous arrangement. He could have us dancing a merry jig, because he holds all the power. We don't have a voice, because we don't hold any cards.

Well, we do hold on card - dependence. If we become independent, he loses his power. Why do you think he fights so hard against it? He wants us to rely on him. He wants us to need him, because that makes us controllable. He doesn't want to lose his influence over our actions. Because he doesn't trust us? Because he can't stand not being the sole object of our admiration? Any way you slice it, "Satan" got his worst attributes from the inventor of said attributes. We just excuse one and not the other because the one created us, so we think we owe him something. We owe him nothing.

I didn't choose to be born. I owe him very little. The most he will ever get is my respect, if he ever shows himself.

He didn't show humans how to be their own master... he only planned to mislead humans into hell. He could do this only with the active participation of human will.

Be warned, Satan is not a friend or a role model.

And who told you this? The god who would benefit most from discrediting "Satan", I suppose? Did you bother to get the whole story? No? Such a pitiful attempt at research. You should always get both sides.

By "flourish" do you mean make money, live well, enjoy life? Well, some people do... and some don't.
Its irrelevant in the larger picture. Because there is more to life than our material existence here on earth... its what happens after that counts. Whether or not you go back home alive after a days work is in the hands of God. Humans cannot postpone their deaths even by a single hour.

If you're worried about the afterlife, then obviously you haven't lived very well. If you have lived a decent life, then you shouldn't have to concern yourself with judgment. You don't need a god to live a decent life. Atheists live decent lives. They volunteer, they donate, they help with the local hospitals and schools and fundraisers. They have morals, they have emotions, and they have honor. I have spoken to quite a few, and while we disagree on many topics, they are very good people. But they don't have a god. They don't answer to one. And they aren't the least bit concerned about the afterlife. In fact, they believe they have only this one chance, so they make the very most of it. A very healthy outlook, I think.

So why should I be concerned about the afterlife? I've made mistakes, but I'm not a bad person. Anyone who knows me can tell you that.

God is worthy of worship.
He does not "look down" upon his creations because they are made of a certain material.

No one and no thing is worthy of worship. Worship is the practice of exalting one above oneself. This is a debilitating practice because it discourages one from believing that they can become like that which they admire. They would be unwilling to surpass the object of their worship because then their image of that person or object would shatter. Equality shatters all idolatry. Which would you rather have - equality among all entities, or worship between the perpetually repressed and the perpetually exalted?

I know what my answer is.

You are trying to place yourself as an equal with God....
You seem to be forgetting that your "life" was given to you by God. Your egoistical approach to this matter and your sense of entitlement are clouding up your understanding of God.

If I must have a god to rule my life, then I want to be that god, as it is my life to rule.

My life was forced upon me. I had no choice in being born. If I had had a choice, I might have declined. But seeing as how I had no choice in being born, I wish to have a choice in how I die. I wish to make my own fate - without the judgment of any self-righteous deity. Is that wrong? How can that be wrong?

It is my life, is it not? So where is my voice in the matter? Where is my choice? I choose free will. True free will. The freedom to exercise my own will as I see fit.