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The Fall guy and the loser its Satan and God!

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posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



Originally posted by AQuestion
1. Do you give humans credit for anything that they do right?


Well, what is "right"? What list of things are "wrong", depending on the "list" it may be very different answers. It is subjective.

MY morality says that exercising one's own free-will for expression and individuality while allowing others to do the same is "good", while forcing one's will upon another is "bad". But I don't believe that there should be any "credit" for allowing people their free-will as this is just natural.


Originally posted by AQuestion
2. Do you believe that we each make our own choices or do you believe our choices are predetermined and that we are not responsible for them?


My belief on this is uncertain so I cannot answer and my opinion may change as new information is released and I learn more. I do wish that there is free-will and whether or not there is, I really don't care as I am more focused on having the ability to do what I want as long as it isn't forcing my will upon another, but whether or not my arising desires are "pre-planned" I really don't care and I don't know for sure.


Originally posted by AQuestion
3. Do you wish to be God or would you rather know God?


What is a "God"? If you are talking about the Biblical god, I would never wish to be him nor would I ever want to be associated with such a being.

If you are saying "God" in the sense of ultimate power - I would say YES, but ONLY for my own life and NOT for the control of others. I would love for all to be free with ultimate control over their own lives.


Originally posted by AQuestion
4. Would you be willing to experience 15 minutes of absolute hell in order that no other sentient being would ever have to?


will I be willing to go to hell for 15 minutes of absolute hell so no other being would have to? It depends on the rules. If hell is only temporary until the crime of forcing will upon others is paid - ABSOLUTELY NOT. Maybe next time they'll learn to not put their will upon others causing them pain and suffering, but If hell is eternal then it is unjustifiable and I wouldn't allow it to exist and any god advocating such I would be against. I am not willing to spend 15 minutes in hell for such an evil god, and if he decides to send others to hell for all eternity because of it then that god is a tyrannical and I am not at fault.




posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by chishuppu
God is the architect of this reality, he made the universe with great detail because it starts from sub atoms up, your very movement starts at a subatomic level. Photosynthesis which creates carbohydrates is activated by waste light/poop like useless light the sun does not need, this universe is atomically detailed to be what it is. God created us to be like this, Satan is a prisoner in hell, he doesn't get orgasms for making you sin, he gets nothing zero. One of my favorite questions is that why did Satan rebel against God. No matter what foolish pride or strength you have doesn't change that God is supposed to be God. To put that to scale useless scale I would say it would be me vs the sun times infinity, what would make me think I could beat that, unless it was doable especially when Michael did the deed instead of almighty. As someone who rarely features in the bible seems people have made satan more than he ever was, ever.


Dear chishppu,

Are you who they called in. ROFL. Is this really the best questions you have. LOL. You take no responsibility for your choices. Really? Your whole answer is an excuse for choosing to be selfish. Gnostics are always looking to blame someone for being selfish, take responsibility for your choices.

By the way, be cute, I am on for the night.
edit on 2-3-2013 by AQuestion because: Just to let them know



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


Well lets look at the facts. Considering the fact that I have read your post, do you suppose it's fair to myself to decide to read materials from various different sources and consider for myself that which I choose to believe?
I believe that Satan did fall, and is a loser. I don't know about your study into theology, but from all that I've read, you seem to me to be mistaken. Take this into consideration: Delivered from the powers of darkness.
edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: To add.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Dear arpgme,

And you have defined yourself and chosen your result. Have fun with that. I answered your questions, take responsibility for your answer, choose your eternity.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


What is your issue with "gnostic's"... if I might ask?




posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:02 AM
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Satan did not "rebel." Satan is not a fall guy.

When God manifested Himself as Christ and was sentenced to death by the very people whom He came to save, or "fix."

By so doing, He acquitted Himself of the totality of the blame and left it to Men to make -themselves- "perfect" (or lacking inequality and the desire for greed and war) by His example.

Satan was just the other side of God. The side that says "If I give them free will and also knowledge of Good and Evil, surely they will be corrupted and choose to commit evil," that is God. The side that says "What if they don't?" that is Satan. The one that says "I will love them until they love me," that is God. The side that says "But what if they never do?" That is Satan.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



Originally posted by AQuestion
Dear arpgme,

And you have defined yourself and chosen your result. Have fun with that. I answered your questions, take responsibility for your answer, choose your eternity.


I have chosen freedom (free-will), joy, open-mindedness, and honesty. If you do not like these virtues then maybe the path of slavery is for you..



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion
 


What is your issue with "gnostic's"... if I might ask?



Dear Akragon,

I am stunned that you would ask me such a question, I do not deceive nor play games, I say what I mean, they do not. I do not respect anyone who blames others for their choices and I thought we agreed on this. My greatest sin was not the guy I almost choked to death, it was the one I hurt just to see what would happen. We all mess up, we are judged not by what we do wrong, we are judged by whether or not we want to be better, not perfect, better. We do have eternity after all.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion
 


What is your issue with "gnostic's"... if I might ask?



Dear Akragon,

I am stunned that you would ask me such a question, I do not deceive nor play games, I say what I mean, they do not. I do not respect anyone who blames others for their choices and I thought we agreed on this. My greatest sin was not the guy I almost choked to death, it was the one I hurt just to see what would happen. We all mess up, we are judged not by what we do wrong, we are judged by whether or not we want to be better, not perfect, better. We do have eternity after all.


It was just a question...

I don't think i'm quite getting what you mean by that...

Are you saying that "gnostic's" scripture is bunk, or that those that claim the title are "deceivers"?

If we've been over this before, refresh me... its been a long day




posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Dear Akragon,

Firstly, I do hope you understand you that I truly respect you and your questions and answers. I also like your sense of humor a lot. I love it when you challenge me. Gives me a good sermon when I address your questions to my congregation.



Are you saying that "gnostic's" scripture is bunk, or that those that claim the title are "deceivers"? If we've been over this before, refresh me... its been a long day


My problem with gnostics is simple. Rather than saying they are gnostics, they attempt to deceive other religions into their beliefs. I don't respect deceit and perversion. I never hid that I was a Christian or believed in God, they try and hedge their bets. I know deceit when I see it and when they do not answer my questions, I know what I am dealing with. I also know how to read their prior threads and posts. Anyone can look up mine and I have made many.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



Firstly, I do hope you understand you that I truly respect you and your questions and answers. I also like your sense of humor a lot. I love it when you challenge me. Gives me a good sermon when I address your questions to my congregation.


*bows casually*

Thank ye..



My problem with gnostics is simple. Rather than saying they are gnostics, they attempt to deceive other religions into their beliefs.


I do believe many Christians are also guilty of this... aside from not claiming to be Christian... Most are quite proud to tote that status... While gnostic beliefs are looked down upon by an overwhelming Christian community... can you blame them for hiding their beliefs?

Do you believe I am Gnostic?


I don't respect deceit and perversion. I never hid that I was a Christian or believed in God, they try and hedge their bets.


Really sounds like your generalizing an entire population with bias beliefs... Perhaps from a few experiences...

Then again perhaps you've met every gnostic in the world who knows... I've never actually met one in my life..


I know deceit when I see it and when they do not answer my questions, I know what I am dealing with. I also know how to read their prior threads and posts. Anyone can look up mine and I have made many.


Have you noticed any "gnostic" themes in my threads?

Per chance?


edit on 2-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion
 



Firstly, I do hope you understand you that I truly respect you and your questions and answers. I also like your sense of humor a lot. I love it when you challenge me. Gives me a good sermon when I address your questions to my congregation.


*bows casually*

Thank ye..



My problem with gnostics is simple. Rather than saying they are gnostics, they attempt to deceive other religions into their beliefs.


I do believe many Christians are also guilty of this... aside from not claiming to be Christian... Most are quite proud to tote that status... While gnostic beliefs are looked down upon by an overwhelming Christian community... can you blame them for hiding their beliefs?

Do you believe I am Gnostic?


I don't respect deceit and perversion. I never hid that I was a Christian or believed in God, they try and hedge their bets.


Really sounds like your generalizing an entire population with bias beliefs... Perhaps from a few experiences...

Then again perhaps you've met every gnostic in the world who knows... I've never actually met one in my life..


I know deceit when I see it and when they do not answer my questions, I know what I am dealing with. I also know how to read their prior threads and posts. Anyone can look up mine and I have made many.


Have you noticed any "gnostic" themes in my threads?

Per chance?


edit on 2-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Dear Akragon,

I will answer your questions in order. You should know better than asking me if I believe someone saying they are Christians means I believe they are. How can you possibly accuse me of supporting people just because they say the believe in God. Many will come calling his name and he will send them away because they have no love i their hearts. I could quote the verses, you know them so I will not. I am not an evangelist, that should be pretty clear by now. I am better than an angel, I am human, I am not pure, I am conflicted by my choices and learning. Angels don't learn, they never get any better, they are pure and I am not.

Now, I shall respond to your comments about gnostics. It is there religion that calls for them to pervert the truth. It is their belief system. They believe that there are secrets and only the "good" ones get to know the truth.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



I am better than an angel, I am human, I am not pure, I am conflicted by my choices and learning. Angels don't learn, they never get any better, they are pure and I am not.


Interesting... have you talked to an angel?

I know nothing of them... or even if they exist


Now, I shall respond to your comments about gnostics. It is there religion that calls for them to pervert the truth. It is their belief system. They believe that there are secrets and only the "good" ones get to know the truth.


Yeh... but I don't like "religion" so lets set aside organized beliefs and deal with your issues with their writing...

technically its on topic because said scriptures are considered "heretical" and thus The work of the Devil...




posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 04:17 AM
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Tetragram created Tetragramaton and it was good, why? because there was no chaos, no confusion. Just like a rat in a hallway it only had one way to go and it lead to Tetragram. Tetragram wanted to let Mankind into the higher realms but wanted that Mankind should earn it, not just be given it. Freewill means nothing if there are no choices.

In order to give Freewill Tetragram knew there must be a separation of the balance and this comes with the gifts of perception, emotion, and judgement and Lucifer were their name. Lucifer gives to mankind the ability of Freewill and nothing more. Tetragram, in giving the gift of Lucifer, changed the hallway into a maze in order for Mankind to earn its place in the higher realms.

Through the gift of Lucifer, Mankind broke the balance into good and evil in order to comprehend Freewill and its possibilities. These possibilities gave rise to the taking of sides rather than the balance that is Tetragram and therefore Tetragramaton. This taking of sides gave rise to Elohim, Retrogramaton, Saboth, Satan and many others who Mankind has set as the pinnacles of possibility and therefore chaos and confusion were introduced just as Tetragram had intended.

The question as to whom to blame for negativity or positivity will always be through perception, emotion or judgement because the balance that is Tetregram has been forgotten. One is here on Terra to experience Life in the lower realms in all its wonders in order to put the higher realms into perspective which was Tetragrams final gifts, the comprehension of Unconditional Love for all things without perception, emotion, or judgement and an earned right to enter into the higher realms of existence.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion
 


What is your issue with "gnostic's"... if I might ask?



Dear Akragon,

I am stunned that you would ask me such a question, I do not deceive nor play games, I say what I mean, they do not. I do not respect anyone who blames others for their choices and I thought we agreed on this. My greatest sin was not the guy I almost choked to death, it was the one I hurt just to see what would happen. We all mess up, we are judged not by what we do wrong, we are judged by whether or not we want to be better, not perfect, better. We do have eternity after all.


You didn't answer the question and what you wrote has nothing to do with it. Gnosis means Knowledge and Gnostics means the search of knowledge neither fit in anything you have written thus far. Is there a specific set of Gnostics or Gnosis that you are talking about? like maybe the Essenes for example?
edit on 2-3-2013 by Agarta because: Spelling



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by chishuppu
God is the architect of this reality, he made the universe with great detail because it starts from sub atoms up, your very movement starts at a subatomic level. Photosynthesis which creates carbohydrates is activated by waste light/poop like useless light the sun does not need, this universe is atomically detailed to be what it is. God created us to be like this, Satan is a prisoner in hell, he doesn't get orgasms for making you sin, he gets nothing zero. One of my favorite questions is that why did Satan rebel against God. No matter what foolish pride or strength you have doesn't change that God is supposed to be God. To put that to scale useless scale I would say it would be me vs the sun times infinity, what would make me think I could beat that, unless it was doable especially when Michael did the deed instead of almighty. As someone who rarely features in the bible seems people have made satan more than he ever was, ever.


Dear chishppu,

Are you who they called in. ROFL. Is this really the best questions you have. LOL. You take no responsibility for your choices. Really? Your whole answer is an excuse for choosing to be selfish. Gnostics are always looking to blame someone for being selfish, take responsibility for your choices.

By the way, be cute, I am on for the night.
edit on 2-3-2013 by AQuestion because: Just to let them know


I never gave an excuse for anything, that is different. We as humans are capable of great evil as you can see, my statement in way was to point out that the current thoughts of what God and Satan are are wrong. We are all responsible for our own actions, but the problem is that the human ptb have us in a system that cause a lot of conflict especially since its failing. Put us in an environment where we are all in equal footing and you will see harmony or less violence. Anywhere where some have more than others will cause a major issue because those that don't have need to get from those that do. The sense, am I making it?



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Obviously humans were created to take the blame for gods mistakes.
None of gods other creations have free will only humans do.
Do the plants have free will to decide whether to bloom in the spring or not to bloom?
Do the planets in the universe have free will to chose where they will travel?
They do what they were programed to do.

If an app on your computer is flawed and doesn`t work right is it the computers fault? The computer has no free will it only does what you (the creator) programed it to do.

Of all gods creations, ranging from the entire universe to the smallest bacteria, humans were gods last creation and the only creation that was given free will.
after looking around at all he created, and seeing the flaws in his creations, god needed a whipping boy to blame.he couldn`t blame any of his creations because they didn`t have free will they were only doing what god programed them to do, so god had to create one more thing and give it free will so he could blame this last creation for his mistake, he created humans.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by AthlonSavage
 



What do you think, do you agree Satan has been falsely accused to cover for Gods failings?


Satan failed himself when he rebelled against God.
God asked him to get out and Satan said he would mislead humans into rebelling against God.
God said he would fill hell with those who follow Satan.

So no, Satan is not being accused falsely.

All you people who believe Satan is somehow the good guy in all of this.... realize that Satan had a superiority complex... he looked down upon mankind because we were made of clay and he was made of fire.
edit on 2-3-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


wasn`t satan kicked out of heaven before humans were even created?so how could he look down from heaven and be jealous of mankind?

when there was no satan then who or what tempted the angels to rebel?

If evil and temptation exist in heaven and can tempt even the angels to rebel than how is heaven different than earth? since angels can succumb to the temptation of evil and be kicked out of heaven,does that mean when we get to heaven we will still be subjected to evil and temptations for eternity and kicked out of heaven if we give into those temptations?

Jesus said we should turn the other cheek not once , not twice but indefinately:


Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.


so why doesn`t god take his own advice? one mistake and boom satan gets kicked out of heaven, one mistake and boom adam and eve are out of the garden of eden, one mistake and boom lots wife is turned into salt, etc etc we are suppose to turn the other cheek and keep forgiving so maybe god should teach by example.

edit on 2-3-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-3-2013 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



Satan failed himself when he rebelled against God.
God asked him to get out and Satan said he would mislead humans into rebelling against God.
God said he would fill hell with those who follow Satan.


Satan dared to be his own master, and said he would show humans how do do the same. I fail to see what's wrong with that. If humans can flourish without the hand of a deity, that's something to be proud of, right?


All you people who believe Satan is somehow the good guy in all of this.... realize that Satan had a superiority complex... he looked down upon mankind because we were made of clay and he was made of fire.


If "God" wants us to worship him, then obviously he looks down on us too. Otherwise, he would encourage us to become gods too.



posted on Mar, 2 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



Dear AthlonSavage,

You show a complete misunderstanding of life, God and humans. You take no responsibility for humans choices and call Satan a fall guy. No, he like us are all responsible for our choices. It is about choice, that is what defines us as people. As for Satan, he is no fall guy, he accuses us day and night before God for every mistake and shortcoming we have. He is not our friend, he is self centered and stupid because he does lose in the end.


Dear AQuestion,

Satan is in the same boat we are. He was designed with his own free will - and he chose to exercise it, choosing to become as great as "God" himself. If "God" did not want any of his creations daring to reach for the stars, he shouldn't have included ambition and free will in the package. If I choose to make my own destiny, my own fate, without "God", then supposedly, I am as bad as "Satan" is.

Is it wrong to choose my own fate? Is it wrong to choose to be as great as the being who designed me? Is it wrong to want to be my own master? The fact is, I don't trust an all-powerful being with a human personality and a narcissistic temperament. At least I can acknowledge my flaws and learn from them. Apparently, he can't.


Evil never understands good because it cannot, it doesn't understand the motivation for truly doing good. Satan understands how we fail; but, cannot understand how we are willing to die for others even if we don't believe in an afterlife; but, we do. I read so many posts coming from your perspective, anger at God because life is challenging and people are imperfect. It is an excuse for being selfish and making selfish choices. They say they had to and had no choice; but, it is a lie. We have free will, we just hate taking responsibility for our actions. We want to say "everybody does it", we want to say "I had no choice". Those are lies we tell ourselves.


If you would humor me, please define "evil" and "good".

I personally bear no anger at "God" because of life. I bear disappointment because he has condemned us for being the living examples of his own shortcomings. He knew we would be flawed, and he still bears ill will towards the flaws he himself gave us. He claims credit for everything we've done for ourselves, even though his hand is mysteriously absent aside from inspiration that we have found for ourselves. He loves us, but he created hell just in case we don't love him back.

He is a very, very disappointing god. It should come as no surprise when I say that I would prefer to be my own god and make my blessings for myself. There is more satisfaction in being my own master, more unity and harmony with the universe. Pretending I'm a neophyte is an unhealthy habit.


You may and try and convince yourself and others that you would do the right thing if God spoke to you himself and that means you miss what the test is. It is not about doing the right thing, it is about the right heart and making decisions because you love others and believe your choices will be best for everyone, with others coming first. Satan accuses us before God and you worry about what Satan thinks and point to God and blame him. You prove his point in regards to what he accuses you of. This is not an attack, it is something to consider. How many people did you help today, what did you do for others while expecting nothing back, did God stop you from helping others? My guess is not, you chose not to.


Can you provide supporting scripture for that?

edit on 2-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




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