If God is perfect then...., page 1


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reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 09:48 PM by backcase
reply to post by mrperplexed


The sublime and infinite Creator is maternal towards His creation. He has Love for you, and He gives you the free will to accept or discard that Love, and live in the extremity of your very own decision forever.


reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 09:50 PM by littled16
reply to post by mrperplexed
What makes you think that lack of emotion is equal to perfection? If God made man in his own image and man is an emotional being wouldn't that imply that God is an emotional being as well? If you think that God does not experience emotion then apparently you have never read the Bible. Give it a read and see what you think.



reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 10:05 PM by mrperplexed
reply to post by littled16


Well I understand he hands out infinite sentences of burning in hellfire.. Emotion is compromising by nature. A perfect God would never experience anger, wrath, need to be worshiped, need anything "proven" to him, etc.....


reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 10:11 PM by EnochWasRight
Originally posted by mrperplexed
He will have no emotion or care that I do not believe in him.

He will have no emotion or care that you do believe in him.

Or am I wrong? (If so, why?)


The universe was created for one reason: To express God's Love in an image that demonstrates His image of Truth. That image is Love. God's will is to give and receive, as it should be. The will of the thief is to take.

The Gospel of Phillip

When the pearl is cast down into the mud, it becomes greatly despised, nor if it is anointed with balsam oil will it become more precious. But it always has value in the eyes of its owner. Compare the Sons of God: wherever they may be, they still have value in the eyes of their Father.

Our souls are the pearls cast into the material universe, but the entire universe, the pearls and the one that created it is the Son of God. The Father is raising the Son in the wilderness.

For more, consult this post: First Adam and Last Adam is the Son of God

Can you love your children more than God? Here is a good mind bender. Before Jesus, all of humanity was His forefathers. Adam was the Father of humanity. We are both born from Adam, the forefather of Adam and saved by Adam (Life giving Spirit). Adam then becomes our Father again.

Jesus said, "You must be born again." Baptism is our immersion into the waters of life. If Adam is both the Father of mankind and born from mankind as the last Adam, then your sons and daughters may raise you later when you are born again. You are raising your own fathers and mothers in some sense. I'm my own Grandpa.

Of course God loves His family. How could God NOT love his child that writes a song such as this! We are made for his good pleasure. We are His image.

We killed him, AND, our future is in HIS hands.



edit on 25-2-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 10:19 PM by littled16
reply to post by mrperplexed
But that is just a matter of your personal opinion. God is what he is. When we decide for ourselves that God should be like "this or that" we are trying to mold him into what our ideals of perfection and are in essence practicing idolatry. You either accept Him "as is" or you do not, and if you do not what is the point of your questions other than to attempt to bolster your own personal opinion? And if you are so certain in your opinion why would you need to bolster it?


reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 10:45 PM by mrperplexed
Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by mrperplexed
But that is just a matter of your personal opinion. God is what he is. When we decide for ourselves that God should be like "this or that" we are trying to mold him into what our ideals of perfection and are in essence practicing idolatry. You either accept Him "as is" or you do not, and if you do not what is the point of your questions other than to attempt to bolster your own personal opinion? And if you are so certain in your opinion why would you need to bolster it?



LittleD, great point.

And I see your logic on idolatry actually. The thing is, how can I accept him "as is" when he has never proven to me that he even exists. I am not certain of my stance.. He may exist, He may not, but when he is touted to be "perfect", that puts parameters around him. And if he is indeed perfect, he wouldnt punish me for all of eternity for not believing in him. Me, his imperfect creation that he has shown no proof of existence to. I think it is a fair question considering my eternal damnation is on the line.


reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 10:47 PM by borntowatch
Originally posted by mrperplexed
reply to post by littled16


Well I understand he hands out infinite sentences of burning in hellfire.. Emotion is compromising by nature. A perfect God would never experience anger, wrath, need to be worshiped, need anything "proven" to him, etc.....




Maybe you are wrong in your understanding of eternal hell for humanity...can you prove human judgement is eternal
Maybe your whole understanding of God is wrong


reply posted on 25-2-2013 @ 11:47 PM by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by mrperplexed


He will have no emotion or care that I do not believe in him.
He will have no emotion or care that you do believe in him.
Or am I wrong? (If so, why?)


How exactly did you equate perfection with having no emotions?

I had posted something relevant to this a few days earlier. I'm going to repost it here with a few minor tweaks.

Take the example of the sun. We can choose to appreciate it for its heat and light.... or we can just take it for granted.

Some people appreciate it and others don't. The fact remains that the sun shines in the sky and its brightness is neither increased by people who appreciate it.... nor is it decreased because of those who don't. Yet, without the sun all of us stumble about in the cold and the dark. So it is us who need the suns heat and light... its not the sun that needs our appreciation.

With God, He IS there.... whether or not we acknowledge and worship Him. Our belief or lack of belief neither adds to his glory nor takes away from it. In the end, we find out that we need Him, not the other way round. Now of course, God being watchful over His creations, deals with believers differently from those who disbelieve.
edit on 25-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 12:09 AM by mrperplexed
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by mrperplexed


He will have no emotion or care that I do not believe in him.
He will have no emotion or care that you do believe in him.
Or am I wrong? (If so, why?)


How exactly did you equate perfection with having no emotions?

I had posted something relevant to this a few days earlier. I'm going to repost it here with a few minor tweaks.

Take the example of the sun. We can choose to appreciate it for its heat and light.... or we can just take it for granted.

Some people appreciate it and others don't. The fact remains that the sun shines in the sky and its brightness is neither increased by people who appreciate it.... nor is it decreased because of those who don't. Yet, without the sun all of us stumble about in the cold and the dark. So it is us who need the suns heat and light... its not the sun that needs our appreciation.

With God, He IS there.... whether or not we acknowledge and worship Him. Our belief or lack of belief neither adds to his glory nor takes away from it. In the end, we find out that we need Him, not the other way round. Now of course, God being watchful over His creations, deals with believers differently from those who disbelieve.
edit on 25-2-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


And I would accept this fully, 100 percent. However it takes no faith to believe in the sun and the sun is not an all perfect creator of the universe of whos image we are made in, and I am told that if I do not believe in God, then there are eternal consequences for that. And unlike the Sun, God does not make his presence known to all.



reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 12:09 AM by bb23108
Your questions in the op imply a God apart from you - as though Reality or Truth or God could somehow be separate from all that is arising. This presumption should be inspected, just like the presumption we make that we are separate entities apart from all others, apart from the world, and also apart from God (if we go that far with this "objectifying" approach).

Reality or Truth is not something our minds can actually objectify and then somehow correctly make all kinds of presumptions about Reality's motives, emotions, etc. Again, how can Truth be separate from anything arising? If it could be, then that something would not arise, as there would be nothing true about it. This is not to say that Reality is not free of what is apparently arising, but it should be inspected if Reality is even separate from what apparently arises, rather than our simply buying into our inherited objectifying God as Other ideas.

Man has objectified God as the Great Other - to pray to, to believe in, to even blame for all our troubles. We need to go deeper with these presumptions and ask if this objectification of God is true. We need to find this out because it is the fundamental act of separation we tend to do - to separate from Truth, and even from what is arising in the moment - and this gives us an illusory sense of a separate "I". The "I" then starts being clever with words relative to God ideas, questions why would God do that in his perfection, why would he care, etc., etc., etc.
edit on 26-2-2013 by bb23108 because: punctuation.


reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 12:23 AM by AQuestion
reply to post by mrperplexed


Dear mrperplexed,

I wasn't sure if I wanted to post on this thread because I am not convinced of your sincerity in asking your questions. I decided to give it a shot and see where it goes.

Your first question had to do with God being perfect; but, you did not define your terms. What is perfection? Is it a result or a process? If God is the totality of everything then it could be argued that by definition he is perfect, he is all that is possible. People often assume that perfection means endless joy; but, that would be mind numbing.


And I see your logic on idolatry actually. The thing is, how can I accept him "as is" when he has never proven to me that he even exists. I am not certain of my stance.. He may exist, He may not, but when he is touted to be "perfect", that puts parameters around him. And if he is indeed perfect, he wouldnt punish me for all of eternity for not believing in him. Me, his imperfect creation that he has shown no proof of existence to. I think it is a fair question considering my eternal damnation is on the line.


People do not go to hell for the reasons you believe, you were taught bad theology. There is only one "unforgivable" sin and it is the rejection of the "Holy Spirit". That is the spirit of love for one another and for all of God's creation. It is said that we could all see him in everything and we all can. You say you do not believe in him, do you believe in love? Do you believe that others matter just as much as you do? Are you willing to live a life of selflessness where you spend your time helping others all the time? Jesus said that we were to do everything from love and that it was more important than the specific actions. You can "do all the right things"; but, if it is done without love then it counts for nothing. The inverse would be that if you do everything from love you are doing the right thing. And yes, if I have to respond to anyone because of this post, it will be people who have accepted bad theology and not Atheists.


reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 12:45 AM by vethumanbeing
Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by mrperplexed
What makes you think that lack of emotion is equal to perfection? If God made man in his own image and man is an emotional being wouldn't that imply that God is an emotional being as well? If you think that God does not experience emotion then apparently you have never read the Bible. Give it a read and see what you think.



God is not gross matter. God created the human to express itself; to know itself as dense matter. God does not have a physical brain or body. You are its expressions coming back to it and describing your experiences. It learns from you. It cannot feel emotion, only catalogs it as 'this is that is' electrically and more importantly magnetically: I am describing moments in creation, it has a better grasp on those idea forms now through entropy (time) enabling it to understand the 'concept' of emotion; it has to be human fully to grasp that concept. Has that event occurred yet and if not why? Jesus is not returning as Savior, he is already here, and very unwilling to sacrifice himself again. PTSD disorder Big Time.
edit on 26-2-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 12:51 AM by mrperplexed
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by mrperplexed




People do not go to hell for the reasons you believe, you were taught bad theology. There is only one "unforgivable" sin and it is the rejection of the "Holy Spirit".


- Is uncertainty the same as rejecting?

Do you believe in love? I believe in love however I am not sure I have experienced it.

Do you believe that others matter just as much as you do?Absolutely

Are you willing to live a life of selflessness where you spend your time helping others all the time? Selfelessness, yes. 100 percent of the time, no.

I understand in theory what Jesus is saying, however all the above does not pertain to God as much as Jesus;s message.


reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 01:05 AM by AQuestion
Originally posted by mrperplexed
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by mrperplexed



People do not go to hell for the reasons you believe, you were taught bad theology. There is only one "unforgivable" sin and it is the rejection of the "Holy Spirit".


- Is uncertainty the same as rejecting?

Do you believe in love? I believe in love however I am not sure I have experienced it.

Do you believe that others matter just as much as you do?Absolutely

Are you willing to live a life of selflessness where you spend your time helping others all the time? Selfelessness, yes. 100 percent of the time, no.

I understand in theory what Jesus is saying, however all the above does not pertain to God as much as Jesus;s message.


Dear mrperplexed,

What an intriguing answer. Is uncertainty the same as rejection, all depends on the reasons doesn't it. Faith is a belief that leads to action, you believe something so much that you respond as if you knew 100% it was the truth. We do that with gravity, there is insufficient mass to account for the gravity of objects. It is a quantum physics thing and you can look it up. We don't know everything, we act on things based on faith, we believe it is true to the point where we treat the world as if our presumption is correct.

Now lets go back to your response, I told you that the only unforgivable sin was the rejection of the holy spirit and explained that it is the rejection of loving all of God's creation. Are you unsure if you reject love and others? That is odd, you either love others or you do not. You said you have not experienced love, you misunderstand, you give love, you do not experience it. It is not something you receive from others, it is what you feel about others and apparently, based on your answer, you have not loved others or you would understand that. Life is about defining ourselves not what we get from others.

Let me throw a thought at you. Lets say you lived a life and had a heart dedicated to others and there turned out that there was no God; but, you continued as a sentient being. What is the worst that would be true of your eternity, it would be that you loved others. Now, lets consider the inverse.


reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 01:22 AM by arpgme
reply to post by mrperplexed


A God of emotion, is not perfect, it'll be easy to control such an entity through his emotions.

All you have to do is do or say certain things to control his emotions at will...


reply posted on 26-2-2013 @ 01:45 AM by AQuestion
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by mrperplexed


A God of emotion, is not perfect, it'll be easy to control such an entity through his emotions.

All you have to do is do or say certain things to control his emotions at will...



Dear arpgme,

I disagree, an emotionless God is not perfect. We are made in his image and we have emotions. Does the Holy Spirit have no emotion, did Jesus have no emotion because we know he wept. Having emotions does not mean that you can be controlled by them, it means you have them, free will allows us to determine how we respond to our emotions.
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