Was Oswald really shot?

Originally posted by broctune

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by broctune

 

I have a thread in the RATS forum called "Footage of Lee Harvey Oswald", there's a video out there somewhere of Oswald alive and well in Siberia circa 1980's.

I'm looking for it. Where is the RATS forum?

I think you have to have a certain number of points or something to get there, I can't post a link to it directly as it's not allowed to link to RATS stuff in the regular forums, u2u me and I think I can send you one though.

reply to post by twitchy


I did see your RATS thread, and I stay by my assumtion that GHWB and the IMC were behind this. People like to say that the CIA/KGB were, but I think thats only because of the connections that George de Mohrenschildt had with them.

It is important to note that GHWB made his way on the political scene right after the Dallas event. Oswald is and always will be a "Red Herring" in the big scheme of things.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Guyfriday
As for the Limo:
Secret Service was not happy with the thought of JFK riding around in it. They even tried to get JFK to put a protective dome on the car. So in the end the Limo having no top on it was JFKs idea.

Video Of Secret Service Being Ordered Away From JFK's Side...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

At best, the Secret Service was hardly on the ball on that day and I'm still not convinced Greer didn't just turn around and shoot him himself, there's frames missing and some other likely manipulations to the film but that would sure explain why Jackie bailed out of the back of the car, I don't buy the 'retrieving brains' crap at all.

What we need is an audio guru to go back to the original audio of Jack Rubenstien's shot and see if sounds like a blank or a bullet, there should be a detectable difference. Check out the RATS thread I posted earlier about the footage of oswald, I'd sure like to get another look at that video. My wife is the only other person that saw it before it vanished from my computer and I've been trying to find another copy of it for about fifteen years now.

I think Greer shot Kennedy. If there's some elaborate conspiracy, which it's obvious there is, then why take any chances? The most likely scenario is that the driver stopped the car, turned around, and shot him at point blank range.

Originally posted by Guyfriday
reply to post by twitchy

 

I did see your RATS thread, and I stay by my assumtion that GHWB and the IMC were behind this.

Absolutely.
Have you seen the film Dark Legacy by John Hankey? It's on Netflix now if you have a subscription there, it goes into a piece by piece expose of the Bush connections to the JFK assasination. There's aslo a picture floating somewhere that shows GHWB outside of the book depository, don't know if it's him or not, but the resemblance is uncanny and that smirk is defining IMO.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Guyfriday
reply to post by twitchy

 

I did see your RATS thread, and I stay by my assumtion that GHWB and the IMC were behind this.

Absolutely.
Have you seen the film Dark Legacy by John Hankey? It's on Netflix now if you have a subscription there, it goes into a piece by piece expose of the Bush connections to the JFK assasination. There's aslo a picture floating somewhere that shows GHWB outside of the book depository, don't know if it's him or not, but the resemblance is uncanny and that smirk is defining IMO.

I've seen that film too. I also think GHWB was behind the JFK assassination.

This page links to an autopsy photo of Oswald. He is listed after JFK .

vanessawest.tripod.com...

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
This page links to an autopsy photo of Oswald. He is listed after JFK .

vanessawest.tripod.com...

Good link. Thanks.

reply to post by Hefficide


it being that powerful, someone else would have had been shot, or the bullet is in the wall or something...
bottom line, does anyone know where the bullrt went?

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation

Originally posted by Jchristopher5
reply to post by broctune

 

I don't know, but we the people are REALLY stupid if we fell for that.

I have always thought it unlikely that LHO was acting alone, and doubts they he was the only shooter. The Ruby assassination of LHO is very suspicious, on many levels. Could have definitely have been organized and "executed" by the CIA.

Not sure there would have been a lot of reason to keep LHO alive though. He had served his purpose, and if a CIA plot then he had to know he was doomed. Is it possible he is sipping, or was, drinks with umbrellas in the, somewhere? I don't say no to anything any more, but it seems unlikely he was spared.

Ya not sure there was any benefit behind keeping Oswald alive. If anything it posed as a huge threat.

unless he was in on something

Originally posted by violence=answer
reply to post by Hefficide

 

it being that powerful, someone else would have had been shot, or the bullet is in the wall or something...
bottom line, does anyone know where the bullrt went?

No bullet recovered. Convinient, huh?

Originally posted by broctune
I found this discussion: cluesforum2.info...

I'd never really thought about it being faked before, but the whole Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby thing has always seemed weird to me. In the videos, you can clearly hear a long honk, followed by a short honk, which could have been Ruby's cue. Oswald doesn't bleed and one shot in the abdomen likely wouldn't kill someone. What do you guys think?

Sort of unrelated, but someone mentioned in another thread that Ron Paul has un uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. Makes you wonder...

that was me who mentioned the resemblence. i bet you have trouble finding ron pauls birth certificate!
and no oswald was not shot, and neither was jfk nor was mary pinchott!

The "JFK-MURDER" was a STAGED EVENT / JFK wasn't "KILLED" on 11/22/63!

it's all theatre, and theatre requires actors.

my previous post

one of the surprisingly very few pictures online of a young ron paul.

i always thought oswald talked as if he had some tissue stuffed up behind his upper lip.
both paul and oswald have problems with eyebrows and the ears of both are similar.
there are who, what and where issues regarding ron paul and the early sixties.


even if this isn't the case, it is all theatre anyway.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by broctune

 

Oswald doesn't bleed and one shot in the abdomen likely wouldn't kill someone. What do you guys think?

Well, he did bleed, quite naturally, and since when does a shot to the stomach produce an "unlikely" death? See Heff's post above, that explains how someone theoretically could suffer a lot of damage from such a shot - something Oswald was a victim of, receiving a great deal of damage there, as anyone else would, and there was pretty much a long shot in terms of survival too. Simply saying being shot in the stomach doesn't kill isn't enough information either. Hell, people can also die from shots to the arms or leg's, yet some others out there miraculously survive certain shots to the head etc.

I suggest, for those who want a bit of an insight into the actions took place to save him, they read this, beginning at page 129 of the book titled "Trauma Room One: The JFK Medical Coverup Exposed". It provides a bit more detail than the simple use of the term "shot in the stomach" and provides a more accurate imagery of his injuries sustained, and more..

Sort of unrelated, but someone mentioned in another thread that Ron Paul has un uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. Makes you wonder...

Forgive me, but.. Seriously? I mean no offence but this is why it's sometimes hard to continue discussing this, my favourite topic, here on ATS.. If I'm being completely honest.

edit on 20-2-2013 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

no smoke from the gun, no visible blood, no agonising and prolonged cries that are
associated with gunshot wounds to the stomach, markings placed on the ground, car
horns coinciding with the beginning of the action etc. etc. but it's all real because moderators
heff and rising say so. did either of you even go through the points raised in the
OP link? if so, comment!

i never did hear you comment on cultos excellent and compelling thread linked in
my above post. do you discount completely all the evidence amassed supporting
his conclusions, or are you just unwilling to entertain this real and present possibility?

or are you gatekeeping, raising agent? nice to see you made it to moderator.
(note to self: do not discuss no plane crashes and media fakery on 9/11, the sandy
hook hoax, alternative realities regarding hitler etc. with r.a.).

and please, enough with the feigned indignation! all aspects and possibilities,
no matter how ridiculous sounding, are worthy of investigation in this utterly
contrived narrative.
do you deny any likeness between a young ron paul and lee harvey oswald
from the photos above?

reply to post by OutonaLimb


I was going to post but this is so so old.

Seems perfectly logical that if the CIA was going to choreograph they might recycle actors. The photographs of Enron chief Ken Lay set off the poltergeist alert for me. Could have been an intentional make up similarity being used for transparency purposes. They did that with some of the Oswald media photos back in the 60's, placing subtle discordant cues that we would call blatant photoshop here on ATS.

If you are under 16 just getting into the ATS lore, it might be an interesting history lesson.

Are they still teaching about the Kennedy assassination in the public schools?

Regarding gunshot wounds; gunshot wounds seldom produce the results people expect. Most people are conditioned by movies and TV to expect two things which seldom, if ever, happen in reality. They expect lots of blood almost immediately, and secondly they expect the victim to exhibit a violent physical reaction such as being blown backwards, shuddering or immediately falling down.

Large amounts of blood only come when a major artery/vein or blood vessel has been hit. Further, when internal organs are badly damaged many times the blood from the injury is contained within the body cavity. Sure, it will eventually show up (and in large quantities) but it is not necessarily an immediate bloodbath.

Blood loss is also a function of the heart beating. If the heart stops many times so does the blood loss unless gravity can have its way. One exception to the no large blood loss notion is head shots. The human skull is filled with blood. When a person is hit in the head, regardless of heart function, there is generally large amounts of blood almost immediately (the JFK assasination is a good example).

People see old ganster photos where it looks like a complete blood bath, but these photos were always taken after the fact, after the victims had 'bled out' so this too contributes to peoples expectations of seeing lots of blood immediately after someone is shot. Often times though, it just isn't the case.

Personally, I think LHO was shot (and killed) that day. I still don't believe the official JFK story, but I do believe LHO was killed and it happened just how we all saw. Equally, I also believe that LHO was never supposed to have been captured (he was supposed to have been killed before being captured), and his capture presented an extreme risk to someone.

On a side note, if there is one element of the JFK assasination which suggests the incident wasn't actually a government hit, it is the killing of LHO in public the way he was. Had the government been behind the JFK assasination, LHO would have just mysteriously died in custody out of public view. Who really was behind the assasination I don't know, but that's my opinion.

reply to post by OutonaLimb

no smoke from the gun, no visible blood, no agonising and prolonged cries that are
associated with gunshot wounds to the stomach,

No visible smoke? Well, naturally - I assume you've not seen the footage btw..

No blood? Wrong, obviously.

No agonizing and prolonged cries? Wrong, again.

Oswald clearly cried out in pain, and could be heard crying out immediately as the shot's were fired and in the aftermath too. If you didn't know this, you've trying to debate without even seeing the shooting take place as these cries are clear.



In images after the shooting, we can clearly see a man in pain too, and also some blood.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/lt51264293.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/pa51264326.jpg[/atsimg]

horns coinciding with the beginning of the action etc. etc. but it's all real because moderators
heff and rising say so.

Yes, bring our moderatorship into thing's. That'll thoroughly help your case and bring forth credibility.

Also, there was a lot of people there. I think it's pretty obvious why the horn was being honked. Come on now, can we please use a little bit of common sense here?

i never did hear you comment on cultos excellent and compelling thread linked in
my above post. do you discount completely all the evidence amassed supporting
his conclusions, or are you just unwilling to entertain this real and present possibility?

No offence, but I'll be wasting my time. I have genuine research to continue in regards to this case.

JFK was shot.. deal with it people. It happened. Elvis is dead too, as is Diana, as is Tupac, as is Michael Jackson etc. etc. People in high positions are still people, and they also succumb to death just like you and me. Welcome to life.

or are you gatekeeping, raising agent? nice to see you made it to moderator.

Oh, a personal attack. I didn't have to wait long for that at all. Congratulations, you just lost the debate and all credibility by delving to the tactics of a child in primary school by going down the route of agent calling as opposed to continuing this discussion like the rational adults we're both supposed to be. But, despite this, I'll continue nonetheless..

do you deny any likeness between a young ron paul and lee harvey oswald
from the photos above?

Yes, and the notion that they're the same person is utterly ridiculous too.

Period.

You also claim in your post that JFK and also Mary Pinchot were not shot. Your credibility is vastly escaping here. Sorry, but it just is. I'm here for genuine, serious research. Not that.

oswald was an insider, just like the rest of the participants in the jfk
media hoax. do you think he would have been allowed to express his
concern that he was being set up as a patsy at a televised press conference
if he really was being set up as a patsy? no. it wouldn't make sense, not unless
it was all part of the script.

irrelevent of how a normal gunshot wound and victim would behave, the stage where
oswald was 'shot' was clearly contrived and all the conspiracy junk thrown into the jfk
saga is junk that is always included in these psy-ops to distract from the big lie, that
the events themselves are essentially faked/hoaxed/staged productions requiring
the co-operation of many insiders or club members.

no-one is hurt in the production of these productions.
it wouldn't work otherwise. actors vanish or take on new roles when they are written
out of the script.

why are there so few photos of ron paul as a younger man?
does no-one else see the striking resemblance to oswald?

ron paul is a character, a plant, controlled opposition. i bet you will not
find a bona fide birth certificate record for him anywhere.
he brought 4,000 children into the world before he went into politics.
sure how couldn't you trust him?

Originally posted by Cauliflower
reply to post by OutonaLimb

 

I was going to post but this is so so old.

Seems perfectly logical that if the CIA was going to choreograph they might recycle actors. The photographs of Enron chief Ken Lay set off the poltergeist alert for me. Could have been an intentional make up similarity being used for transparency purposes. They did that with some of the Oswald media photos back in the 60's, placing subtle discordant cues that we would call blatant photoshop here on ATS.

If you are under 16 just getting into the ATS lore, it might be an interesting history lesson.

Are they still teaching about the Kennedy assassination in the public schools?

The Kenneth Lay thing is interesting. Please elaborate.

Originally posted by OutonaLimb
oswald was an insider, just like the rest of the participants in the jfk
media hoax. do you think he would have been allowed to express his
concern that he was being set up as a patsy at a televised press conference
if he really was being set up as a patsy? no. it wouldn't make sense, not unless
it was all part of the script.

Oswald was not an insider, he was just a tool in the event. If Oswald was allowed to testify then it would have come out that he wasn't the mastermind behind this.

irrelevent of how a normal gunshot wound and victim would behave, the stage where
oswald was 'shot' was clearly contrived and all the conspiracy junk thrown into the jfk
saga is junk that is always included in these psy-ops to distract from the big lie, that
the events themselves are essentially faked/hoaxed/staged productions requiring
the co-operation of many insiders or club members.

I can totally agree to this, but if you look at the tactics used it's the same ones that the Oil Companies use. (Oil Companies are only one faction in the IMC)

why are there so few photos of ron paul as a younger man?
does no-one else see the striking resemblance to oswald?

Look at the ears. Oswald has rounded ears, Ron Pual has slightly pointed ears. Sure you can argue the cosmetic surgery was done, but even if you take that into account, the ears don't match up.

ron paul is a character, a plant, controlled opposition. i bet you will not
find a bona fide birth certificate record for him anywhere.
he brought 4,000 children into the world before he went into politics.
sure how couldn't you trust him?

Yeah he's a character alright. I don't like him personally, but thats beside the point here. If we think about this locically, ask your self, "How could Oswald get into medical school, get a medical licence, and have no one question him?"

reply to post by broctune


Wouldn't it be more likely the person was honking because people were getting in the way?
I will say that the whole thing seems surreal, but that's just the style of reporting back then very cinematic.

Also looks nothing like Ron Paul.

nevermind.. not even worth addressing.