About Libertarians

Having realized that neither the Republicans nor the Democrats accurately cover my view's I have been looking into the Libertarian party lately.

If you look over my posting history you will notice that I voted for Obama, I am not ashamed of it. Believe this battle is better than the battle we would had fault with Romney but I do, however realize that when nothing for the lesser of two evils maybe there could had been a better choice.

I am seriously thinking of switching to full fledged Libertarian, I am registered as a Democrat but I find my views fluctuating between the two dominate parties.

I noticed last election there seemed to be a lot of Libertarians around and I now have a few questions for you guys ...

Little background, I am a blue collar Union worker, a maintenance tech at a large company everyone loves to hate
I have done research searching for my answers but I figured I may ask around as well.

First, would it be a conflict of interest being a Union Member and being Libertarian?
From what I have learned private sector unions are OK, to a point but Public sector Unions are bad. Personally, I like having Union protection on the job and understand that the Freedom of Association should cover Unions to a point just curious what others thought of it.

Second, is Libertarians Pro life and Pro choice? Digging around it is hard to nail this one down. At first I believed they were pro choice and that Freedom of Choice covers this issue but what about the choice of the father and deeper still, the choice of the unborn child?

Normally this would not be an issue to me but my girlfriend who unbeknownst to me is obviously pro life and she raised some interesting points, which I listed above. The choice of the father and the unborn child and using adoption as a solution, needless to say momma is pro life and since I was hoping to interest her in the Libertarian party as well this suddenly became an important issue.

Lastly, is the Economic Freedom issue. Do libertarian's support NAFTA and free trade with other countries, outsourcing of American jobs and buying cheap imports to be sold in the states? I was hoping they would be more on the side of American made products made and sold in America but I can't find a clear answer there.

That is all the questions I currently have, I hope there are some knowledgeable Libertarians around. I personally am ready to see a peaceful change in this country and wondering if the Libertarians are the answer?

What I dont understand, at this point in time, is why you would want to affiliate with any of the parties.

Partisan politics are one of the biggest problems in this country. The idea that you should align with one group, and restrict your own ability to think by having to vote within those lines is a foreign concept to me, i guess.

Avoid affiliating yourself with some ridiculous group.

You can be libertarian without being a Libertarian.

I've always marveled at folks who go out of their way to seek out groups to join be they political, religious, hobby oriented or whatever.

Groups are too much work with all the contradictions and endless upkeep.

reply to post by Tazkven


You ask good questions.

First I will point you here, though I am sure you have visited it more than once in your quest so far:
Libertarian platform

Second, know that a platform serves as a guideline on how to vote, try to follow it when possible, though really there is always room for some slight deviation as voting straight as someone tells you to isn't always a great idea.

To adress some of your questions, I would say that libertarianism looks into the conservative platform but answers reasoning with the constitution.

So for things like Unions and for abortion I think it would lean closer to a true conservative value. In which case, as you said, a private sector union would likely be better than a public sector union. Abortion is tricky because libertarians believe pretty strongly in the freedom of choice, but also heavily emphasis family and morales and this one falls pretty in the middle of the road. Ron Paul was pro life I think but maybe Johnson was for choice, so I am not positive on that one. As for NAFTA, I am sure there isn't actually a party platform on it, and if there is I would need to research it more to fully grasp as to why libertarians would lean for or against it.

Generally you would need to ask yourself, what does the constitution say, and why? Also ask, does this limit my freedom, how much is the government involved? Is this infringing on someones' rights or freedom?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


A hundred stars! Good answer.

OP, why align yourself with ANY party, when none fully addresses your concerns? We are all individuals. Free yourself! Don't let anyone think they can expect your vote just because the letter behind their name matches your affiliation.

Freedom from political parties is a Good Thing.

reply to post by Tazkven


There is really only one TRUE political party in America and that is the Constitution party. Believing in, adopting and practicing what our country was founded on and in the spirit of. It is the only true law in America and one that embraces what the country should be and what it should hold most dear.

The collection of fundamentals doesn't end with the Constitution though, see also The Bill of Rights, The Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, The Mayflower Compact, Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen and The Gettysburg Address.

These are all very important to understanding the spirit, history and purpose of why our country was founded. You may already be well versed in these and if so, continue on! However, I don't if you are, so I was just throwing them out there.

It's an easy party to be in, there is no political ideology or endless debates about left or right rhetoric, just an outline and framework of how to be free and why we should be free and the laws that govern that agreement between government and citizen.

I find myself agreeing with one side sometimes and another side half the other time, debating with Republicans on some issue's then with Democrats on others, it all seems counter productive. Dealing with differant sides of the same coin, while we continue to lose rights and liberties. I want to see change in this country, preferably peaceful change and trying to find a solution for me ...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Partisanship is dangerous to swear by, but not to affiliate with. There needs to be some collective train of thought that is categorized with partisanship. There needs to be, as a whole, a collective voice for the people which is expressed through partisanship. Now being restricted to only 2 parties is ridiculous, maybe even 10 or 20, but I think having a group to say you belong to isn't a bad thing. By saying you are libertarian you are admitting to agreeing to at least most of the stances the party takes.

Now, that does't mean you shouldn't do your research and keep up with how the party and your own opinion is changing... And it would seem the OP is exploring this, so get off their back hahaha

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


I am not on anyone's back. I just don't support political parties. I'm in my 50s and have never belonged to one. And I've done just fine. In fact, I am able to think for myself, instead of aligning myself with some predetermined set of values that someone else came up with. I have views that span all parties. How could I pick one? I don't need to belong to a group to know what I support and believe in. It frees me to vote for the CANDIDATE, and not for some set of ideals that I may or may not agree with.

You gave your opinion - I gave mine. So get off my back.

I personally think all political parties should be 100% done away with. People should vote for the person based on the issues, not based on what their political party is, which is what happens more often than not.

I don't disagree with anything anyone here has said here. I am 40 and in my youth I followed the George Carlin example, I didn't vote because I believed it did not matter. Later in life as things seemed to get worse I figured maybe I better start voting and now things are an awful mess and neither the republicans nor democrats are fixing the issues, they are just taking away our rights and freedoms and personally I am sick of it.

Not having political parties is a great idea but it isn't our reality and I also admire being party free but again it is the two parties in power screwing us over, pardon my bluntness. I felt like my views better aligned with Libertarians and maybe we need to get different views in their instead of the same old battles, voting for the lesser of two evils all the time which are just different sides of the same coin.

Earlier when I said I want to find the right solution for me, that actually was not accurate ... I want to find the best solution for us all.

Well Tazkven you can be party free even if America isn't. What that means is vote for the candidate whose views most match up with your own. Don't vote straight one party.

And the two parties are screwing everyone over because they are the two with the most power. Do you really think that if the Libertarian Party or the Green Party or whatever Party gets the kind of power that the Dems and Repubs have that they won't start screwing people over and trying to further their own agenda which is to continue to line their own pockets?

Libertarianism can be as much a philosophy as a political party and I think it works better that way...though I do tend to vote Libertarian.

Libertarians at the most fundamental level believe in individual freedom and personal responsibility. Libertarians also tend ot be socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

I do not care how other people live...that is their choice and they can live with the rewards or the ramifications of their personal decisions. I also believe that you do not spend money you do not have...no, it is not ok to spend too much and then steal from the people in the form of raising taxes to accommodate your poor leadership and management skills.












Many people will drop in and give you their interpretations of the party...which is easy enough to research, the party actually has a platform of their political positions on most every topic. They are not bible beating loony tunes, but you are "free" to be one if you choose. Many of these "moralists" that consider themselves Libertarians are actually Constitutionalists and just don't know it...the Constitution party is very Religion/morally founded.

Me personally...I live by the Philosophy of Freedom. It just so happens I agree with "most" of the Libertarian platform so I choose them most of the time...But all I care about is freedom. I will do my best to assure that my freedom does not encroach upon yours...and I appreciate you reciprocating the gesture...do not cross the fence into my yard and tell me how to live and I can promise I won't do it to you.

reply to post by Jeremiah65



That has to be one of the best summaries of the Libertarian Party I've ever seen. Very interesting the difference between the true Libertarian Party and the Constitutionalists. Star to you.

reply to post by LazarusTsiyr


Would like to think not, the screwing us over part ... Seems to be against their ideology. As far as the money thing goes I am of the belief that is the fault of the big banks but that isa different thread in another forum

reply to post by Jeremiah65




Thanks for the input, that is how I believed the philosophy of the politics were I was just unclear about the questions I asked in the OP, again thanks.

Also, about the OP, I apologize for the typos and wrong words in some spots, I am using my phone in full web view and that combined with autocorrect is producing less than diserable results.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


I missed your post initially but want to thank you your response and the information you provided, it is greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by Tazkven
reply to post by LazarusTsiyr

 

Would like to think not, the screwing us over part ... Seems to be against their ideology. As far as the money thing goes I am of the belief that is the fault of the big banks but that isa different thread in another forum

Well we'd all like to think that, but as we've seen throughout history "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." And I'd be willing to bet that any other political party that gets the same amount of power as the Dems and Repubs would become just as corrupt.

reply to post by Tazkven


To give you my opinion of those specific questions you asked…

1) People should be free. If they choose to come together in a group to further their prosperity through collective bargaining, they should be allowed to do so. The phrase “Strength in numbers” is not a theory or philosophy, it is a fact of reality.

2) Pro life or Pro choice. Most Libertarians are by default “pro choice" primarily because what another person chooses to do with their body, or their home or their mind is no one else’s business…period…especially the damn Gov.

3) Free trade…I can quote you right out of the party platform on this one…most completely miss the point though. They think Libertarians want to ship all the jobs to countries to be done by slaves…not true. What Libertarians want is the Government out of the middle of it…stop meddling, taxing and controlling. Here is the party platform position…Free trade between two consenting adults should be just that. The Gov's purpose is to protect our borders, our rights and our property...that's it.

From the Libertarian Party Platform

2.0 Economic Liberty
Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.

2.1 Property and Contract
Property rights are entitled to the same protection as all other human rights. The owners of property have the full right to control, use, dispose of, or in any manner enjoy, their property without interference, until and unless the exercise of their control infringes the valid rights of others. We oppose all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates. We advocate the repeal of all laws banning or restricting the advertising of prices, products, or services. We oppose all violations of the right to private property, liberty of contract, and freedom of trade. The right to trade includes the right not to trade — for any reasons whatsoever. Where property, including land, has been taken from its rightful owners by the government or private action in violation of individual rights, we favor restitution to the rightful owners.

2.2 Environment
We support a clean and healthy environment and sensible use of our natural resources. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Pollution and misuse of resources cause damage to our ecosystem. Governments, unlike private businesses, are unaccountable for such damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights in resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. We realize that our planet's climate is constantly changing, but environmental advocates and social pressure are the most effective means of changing public behavior.

2.3 Energy and Resources
While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

2.4 Government Finance and Spending
All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose any legal requirements forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a "Balanced Budget Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes.

2.5 Money and Financial Markets
We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies and unconstitutional legal tender laws.

2.6 Monopolies and Corporations
We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals. We oppose government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest. Industries should be governed by free markets.

2.7 Labor Markets
We support repeal of all laws which impede the ability of any person to find employment. We oppose government-fostered forced retirement. We support the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions, and an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union. We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

2.8 Education
Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education.

2.9 Health Care
We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want (if any), the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions. People should be free to purchase health insurance across state lines.

2.10 Retirement and Income Security
Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.

Read the rest of the platform at the above linked address

reply to post by Tazkven


There are only 2 extremes of social organization.

Totalitarianism(Pure Authoritarianism/Statism)Anarchism(Pure Libertarianism/Astatism)

If you want small restricted decentralized government. Then vote for US libertarian party or the US constitutionalist party.
If you want big unlimited centralized government. Then vote for the US communist party,US Fascist Party or the US democratic party.