Colo. House passes gun-control measures

Originally posted by pgobbs2277
I live in Colorado.

This sucks, because I wanted to own a gun for the sake of the 2nd amendment.


people say "Why do you need a gun like that anyway?"

Read the freaking 2nd amendment, it is solely for the purpose of taking down people militia style.

You can still own a gun, they have just severely limited your choice of what one. The 2nd Amendment is not for taking people down militia style, if I am interpreting what you mean by that correctly.

The 2nd Amendment is for the people to have the right to own any firearm of any style comparable in technology to those of the military for use in protection, be it personal protection or protection from the government should they attempt a coup of the Republic or in the case of invasion from a foreign occupying army.

reply to post by Ghost375

C'mon. This really isn't a big deal. 15 rounds is more than enough

This is how things start, with the idea that 15 rounds is more than enough, then it becomes 10 rounds is more than enough, then 5, then 0. Sweeping changes like disarming a population of 300 million takes time, time on a scale that most people don't like to think about. This time around the Confiscationists have decided to work at the state level where they have a better chance of success, so they will pass their unconstitutional crap legislation in states like Illinois, California, Washington and Colorado, then when the next supermajority is had in both the house and senate with a sitting Democrat president they will return with an ban package that will make the AWB as proposed by senator Feinstein and it will pass with flying colors because "the states have already proven this is mandated by the will of the people".

If you dont think this is how its going to go down I highly suggest you research both the Door-in-the-face and Foot-in-the-door compliance techniques, those who want to strip you of your rights are using these tactics on a long term scale.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
Its kinda Funny how all the Gun Lovers are Mortified by the Bill Passing.

But a Company attempting to BLACKMAIL the Government of Colorado, thats Ok.

You guys are a Joke.

You are insane! How in the hell is it blackmail when they have all the liberty to do their business where ever they so please. It's not like they are extorting the government! They are providing an opportunity for their Representative to do the right thing and strike this down.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
In case people want to see the bill, you can find it here at the Colorado State Legislature (PDF)

Highlights:

-- There is a grandfather clause

(2) (a) A PERSON MAY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE IF
HE OR SHE:
21 (I) OWNS THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE ON THE EFFECTIVE
22 DATE OF THIS SECTION; AND
23 (II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY
24 MAGAZINE.

-- There might be an equal-protection case in the making here since they allow some to possess and manufacture but deny others; exceptions are tricky and a citizen could easily use McDonald or Heller to highlight this argument.

-- Serialization of the magazines....that is interesting.

I am not sure how this follows...

SECTION 3. Safety clause. The general assembly hereby finds,
21 determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate
22 preservation of the public peace, health, and safety

How does this preserve the public peace, health, and safety? It is a feel good measure "hey look we did something".

The problem is that they now will force you to prove when you purchased the said magazines. This is the catch 22.

reply to post by Bearack


That is the reason for the serialization clause. Basically if you have a magazine without a serial, then you can argue that you were grandfathered in. The burden is on the state and most logical courts (if it ever got challenged) will seek that burden to be proved by the State that you bought such magazine after this law goes into effect.

It is a nonsense law and will be challenged and should be challenged solely on the equal protection clause. Laws are to be uniform in application and this one carves out exceptions that most judges don't like. We will see though.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by Bearack

 

That is the reason for the serialization clause. Basically if you have a magazine without a serial, then you can argue that you were grandfathered in. The burden is on the state and most logical courts (if it ever got challenged) will seek that burden to be proved by the State that you bought such magazine after this law goes into effect.

It is a nonsense law and will be challenged and should be challenged solely on the equal protection clause. Laws are to be uniform in application and this one carves out exceptions that most judges don't like. We will see though.

I surely hope that if passed, it goes immediately to the Colorado Supreme court and before the ink is dry on the draft, placing their argument with the SCOTUS.

I read about this yesterday and I have been too emotional to respond to it till now.

I moved to this state about 20 months ago with 2 duffel bags and a $1000 dollars in my pocket. I had only an interview for an oil contractor but for me this was a chance to realize a dream. I had the opportunity to live in one of the most beautiful states in the US. I was homeless for two months because while I had a job I did not have enough money to get an apartment, turn on power/water ect. and had to live in a tent when I was not on a job site.

Today my situation has improved dramatically I live in a wonderful apartment near the mountains and can go to Rocky Mountain National Park on a weekly basis. Since my financial situation has improved I have enjoyed collecting firearms as a hobby. I currently own 8 different guns, all of which I shoot at ranges on a regular basis. I carry a firearm almost everyday. I do not view this a paranoia. I was taught growing up to hope for the best but plan for the worst and I do this with my personal security. At home I have a shotgun (kel-tec KSG). This guns primary purpose is home protection. It holds 15 shells of 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shells which is an enormous amount. It is well above the limits imposed for shotguns by the Colorado state legeslature (8 shell max capacity). The only reason it will continue to be legal is that I bought it before this insanity began.

To those of you who say that a person protecting their family does not need 15, 30, or even a 100 round weapon my answer is that I need as many rounds as it takes to protect myself, the ones I love, and my property from any threat that might befall them. Is it likely that some crazy person is going to come into my house tonight or gun me down in public tomorrow, probably not. But nobody at VT, Aurora, and Sandy Hook probably thought it was very likely either. By the time you realize the need for a weapon, if you don't have one, you're dead.

That is why these laws break my heart. I love Colorado, I love living here. Sadly after this August I will not be able to live here any more. Laws like these are a gateway to what is happening in California and New York. I will not be made a criminal for exercising my right to self defence and I will not have some politician who has never even held an "assault weapon" tell me how many rounds it takes to defend myself. This is why I must leave. I left Kansas with next to nothing because I found a job out here. I will return with nothing if I have to in order to preserve my right to defend myself.

I am not one of the people on this site who says they will leave a state but doesn't. I am setting a deadline. By August when my lease runs out if these laws have not been challenged I am moving from the state of Colorado back to Kansas. Since I have to travel long distances for my job anyway I will be meeting my boss next week to determine if I can continue to travel out of KC with my company. If I cannot then I have 6ish months to find a new job.

It was a great time Colorado, I would have spent the rest of my life here if I could.

--noodlewrangler

I hope Louisiana offers Magpul some incentives to move operations down here. We could use the jobs. And the magazines.

reply to post by jaynkeel


Maybe those polititions should have voted on what their peeps wanted instead of voting what tthey feel...what they feel is not what they are supposed to be voting ...what the people want is what they are supposed to vote..

MAYBE SOME OF THOSE MEMBERS OF THE COLORADO REDNECK SOCIETY SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND GO TAKE THEIR STATE BACK ...BY FORCE IF NEED BE

reply to post by SELAboy


I hear you SELA its not like we dont need the jobs here...Id work for them in a heartbeat..
Even have have the perfect building picked out in Monroe area!!

Interesting that Magpul has made in Colorado crossed out on their product page and a question mark next to it. I know they said they'd move but it really must hit home for the folks employed there now, what their elected officials have done to them.

Originally posted by Ghost375
Perfect example of why there's no talking to you people.

"You have proof that Obama is not directly responsible for eroding our rights?"
This has nothing to do with the conversation!!
Your entire response degraded into some tirade against Obama, and trying to call me an Obama supporter, ha! And we aren't even talking about him! I mentioned him in passing. He's obviously not the topic at hand.
The only thing worse than your guys' obsession with guns, is your obsession with Obama.

Realize how crazy you guys look and sound. It's beyond obsession at this point.

People can't even talk about limiting guns, that the founding fathers would never have dreamt were possible, without you all flipping out.

i'm perfectly rational, so i shall reply to you.

it IS a big deal, and i shall explain why, thusly...

Limitation is infringement. the second amendment, which is a part of the constitution/bill of rights, which is the supreme law of the land, very clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It is very clear language. the right of the people(you and me) to keep(own), and bear(carry on one's person) arms(weapons, in this case, firearms) shall not be infringed(limited, restricted, diminished, encroached upon).....that means neither the federal government, nor the states/counties/municipalities/etc have any legal authority to in any way infringe upon our constitutional rights...

the right exists..it is up to the individual whether or not they choose to exercise it....this is where the argument comes in...those who do not choose to exercise that right believe that those of us who wish to exercise it should not be allowed to...that's authoritarian, and stupid..

as to the silly argument regarding weapons the founding fathers never would have imagined....that is a stupid, because they KNEW that technology would advance, and with better tech would come better weapons....the second amendment was worded in the way it was to ensure that the people were properly armed and equipped, so they could not only defend themselves, but so that they could come together as a militia, in defense of their communities...

You see, these united states were never supposed to have a permanent standing federal army, the defense of the country was supposed to be the job of the militia..

are you starting to understand what i'm telling you? am i being sane and rational enough?

Originally posted by jaynkeel
Interesting that Magpul has made in Colorado crossed out on their product page and a question mark next to it. I know they said they'd move but it really must hit home for the folks employed there now, what their elected officials have done to them.

gee, does that mean that any magpul products i own that have "MAGPUL INDUSTRIES CORPORATION - BOULDER, CO USA" stamped on them are now collectors items?

Check this recent statement from Magpul out.

Magpul is proud to announce the “Boulder Airlift”, our program to make sure that responsible Colorado citizens have the opportunity to own standard capacity PMAGs prior to the potential implementation of pending legislation that would infringe on their Second Amendment Rights. The program will be open to all responsible CO residents, (with both billing and shipping addresses inside CO) and provide access to a limited quantity of PMAGs. Remember to contact members of the Senate and the Governor prior to ordering and urge them to oppose HB 1224. Full details at www.magpul.com... Similar to the Berlin Airlift, the Boulder Airlift will bring much needed supplies to freedom-loving residents trapped inside occupied territory. While we plan to initially use FedEx or UPS instead of aerial delivery, we figure that $5 flat rate shipping will make up for any loss of “style points.” The increases we have made and continue to make in production capacity will allow us to open this program with very minimal impact on the number of PMAGs we are shipping to our dealers and distributors out of the state. We are also aware that Colorado is not the only state with existing or pending magazine capacity restrictions; we are working on programs for other affected states as well.

You gotta love their commitment to the people and the cause. Just another reason why I love to do business with them.