Christopher "Renegade Cop" Dorner: Was He Framed?

I'm creating this thread to discuss the official narrative, document MSM coverage, and explore theories about the case. Please keep discussion focused on those areas to ensure a high signal to noise ratio.

Chris Dormer spent the majority of his time over the last several years being trained in "underwater" demolitions and other SEAL-related skills, and was returned to active duty shortly after beginning his career as a police officer -- in order to guard an oil platform, a strange use of the investment into his training the military spend time and money providing him.

Very shortly after his return to work with the LAPD, he filed a complaint about an incident of kicking brutality perpetrated by a female officer. There is no chance he was unaware the reaction this would cause amongst his colleagues or the possibility he would lose his job.

On Monday, the 1st of February, Chris Dormer is honorably discharged from the United States Navy.

Two days later, on Sunday, the 3rd of February, Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence are discovered in the passenger and driver seats, respectively, of their parked car, when a fellow resident of their condominium complex (into which they recently moved) noticed someone slumped over the wheel.

This means there were no shattered windows to alert witnesses, and therefore the shooter was inside the vehicle, in the back seat. Additionally, the parking area required a key code, and surveillance cameras are positioned throughout the parking area. Initial news stories also reported that "authorities say they have no motive or suspects in the killing."

With this news already in the paper, according to the narrative, Dorner then, on Tuesday, the 5th of February -- another two days after he allegedly killed Quan and Lawerence -- checks into a Navy hotel with his own iD, under his own name, making no attempt to obfuscate his appearance. He never checks out.

On Wednesday the 6th, he is named as a suspect based, in the words of the LAPD, on his manifesto, which the LAPD helpfully provided to the media despite its allegations of corruption. Perhaps they were certain the murder of two innocent people would render the content less credible.

His manifesto declares a one-man war on the LAPD, but instead, there are two days missing in his trail of activity and then he walks right in to what could very easily become a prison if the cops he knows will be looking for him soon finds out he's inside. We have no idea when he left the hotel -- whether it was before or after he was named as a suspect -- or where he was between checking in on the 5th and the next time he supposedly shows up, in the early morning of Thursday the 7th.

In this incident, the LAPD claims he opens fire on the cruiser of a crew working protection on one of Dorner's manifesto-targets. Despite the damage to the car being so severe the officers were "unable to pursue", and despite Dormer's skill as a sniper, the only injury sustained was a minor graze to the head of one of the officers. Somehow, despite being shot at by four cops at once, Dormer escapes unharmed.

Those are the facts of the first part of the timeline, which is where I believe our attention should be focused, as it is the most crucial time for understanding the incident. I'll add my questions and theories in the next post.

Primary Sources:

www.cbsnews.com... inside-car-report-says/

www.cnn.com...

blogs.ocweekly.com... (oddly, this omits all mention of the keypad and cameras, only saying there were no eyewitnesses or gunshots reported).

reply to post by sepermeru


The most important question, of course, is why the media and the LAPD have not said one word, as far as I can find, about the unusual way in which Quan and Lawrence were killed -- not only is it highly uncommon, it doesn't match Dorner's alleged behavior in other incidents. If he wanted to kill them to make a statement, why not attack them openly as he seems to have done to actual police officers? Why kill them subtly and quietly when your whole point is to send a message to both the LAPD and the public? Why not immediately take steps to disappear? Did he leave the hotel before or after he found out he was a suspect? If it was after, could it be that he knew he was being framed?

One theory is that Dormer had even more incriminating information about Quan, and shared it with the couple, requiring Quan to silence them and conveniently setting Dormer up at the same time. However, I find the idea of Quan killing his own daughter in cold blood implausible. He seems to be very low on the food chain here, not himself a cop anymore, and if Dormer didn't kill them -- wouldn't it be handy if they'd mention those pesky tapes? -- it's possible the LAPD simply chose him as the odd man out to be the scapegoat for a set-up intended to discredit Dormer's whistle-blowing.

And of course...WHAT ABOUT THE TAPES? Even unhelpful security tapes get reported about, but the only mention I've seen of the cameras is in one article published before Dormer was a suspect.

reply to post by sepermeru


Explanation: S's&F!

I concur with the OP's line of reasoning here as IF he did perpetrate the killings [note I didn't use the term murder] and had already sent the LAPD his manifesto [which is now in doubt] THEN the LAPD had ample time to inform and or protect these two deceased persons.

For me it boils down to who wrote the original and unaltered manifesto and the amount of time between the LAPD recieving that and the killing of these 2 individuals.

If the original and unaltered manifesto is not his then IMO he was clearly framed!

If the LAPD had the original and unaltered manifesto, and it is also indeed his manifesto, for more than a few hours before the killing of these 2 individuals occured THEN that is completely unacceptable on the part of the whole LAPD organization as it directly points out a serious case of unprofessionalism which directly contributed to the demise of these 2 people.

Either The LAPD is behind these slayings,...

OR,...

They weren't doing their Jobs as Law Enforcement Officers by protecting these two people who were directly targeted in the manifesto!

Personal Disclosure: On both accounts the LAPD comes of looking absolutely disgusting and objectional as a state sanctioned protection racket.

I am coming at this from an out of the box approach as a result of attempting to read this guy's "manifesto".

I discovered there are many "versions" of it floating around, and the first one I happened to read was quite long and actually had a whole rant about why the Federal Govt are good guys and why gun bans are necessary, where he rants about how easy it was for him to obtain a silencer / suppressor and why it should be illegal for everyone.

This alone caused me to think twice and reevaluate my opinions or to entirely withhold them.

One thing I cannot get out of my head though, is that this appears to be fabricated to some extent (to what extent remains unknown).

They can't all possibly be the legit original manifesto. How am I suppose to know which one is the real one now? How am I suppose to know if there is even a real one?

Something about this doesn't add up.
Well, a lot about this doesn't add up.

Originally posted by sepermeru
about the unusual way in which Quan and Lawrence were killed -- not only is it highly uncommon, it doesn't match Dorner's alleged behavior in other incidents.

Ok for one moment let us assume that it was Dorner behind all of this.

We cannot merely judge his actions or patterns so simply, as he stated directly in his manifesto all of these standard procedures and assessments will not work here, as he is 'unconventional'.

If he were really out there on a killing spree like this, I would have to assume he is going to change up his tactics every time, take totally unexpected actions and make sure he doesn't follow patterns.

I just don't think we can judge the authenticity of the media's story merely by the strange appearances of the murder scenes alone.

Now if anyone can get a hold of that video showing the actual murders, if it even exists, that would easily solve a lot of these types of speculations/questions. But I have learned not to get my hopes up about video evidence because the government has some sort of allergy or aversion to sharing evidence with us that prove their claims.

You know, I haven't really decided on anything yet.

Who is the real target here? Is the goal to destroy the LAPD and create turmoil and chaos in the city so as to require outside militaristic intervention?

Or is this really some guy who snapped and is on a war path? And the LAPD is doing damage control in a media frenzy?

It's really hard to tell frankly, and considering the circumstances I am inclined to lean towards the bigger picture scenarios which imply something of even greater concern than a mere maniac out on a vendetta.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I agree -- he could likely be varying his methods, as you say. Still, his whole point is to draw public attention, so why silently kill two people, somehow evading a keylock (not hard) and video cameras (or did he? who knows, no one will report on it!) and walk around in the open for two to three days afterward doing apparently nothing much at all? If he wanted to make a point, he would have left them where Quan would find them, or otherwise taken them out in public, dramatically. These people weren't murdered by a cop on a rampage. They appear to have been assassinated by a professional -- which could be Dormer, yes, but again we can't put him in that backseat because we just don't have the information that he was even there -- or killed by someone they know.

reply to post by muzzleflash


As for the deeper theories...

Dormer looks like a plant to me. He went from college to the Navy -- which is a whole lot different from going from high school to the Navy. It means he wanted a real job doing something serious, and it appears he got it.

From 2002 to 2005, he's in the Navy. He spends a few months in the LAPD, and then "The Navy recalled Dorner to active duty, and he served a 2006-2007 stint in Iraq guarding oil platforms." Not even the journalist who typed that took it seriously. This is code for "his assignment was classified". You don't train somebody in specialist tactics for three years and then stick them on the night watch.

"After his tour in Iraq, Dorner returned to the LAPD in 2007. Shortly after his return, he reported excessive force by a fellow police officer in July 2007."

By 2008 he was again out of the LAPD. He fights for his job until 2011...but he remains a member of the Navy until February 1st, 2012, one day before the deaths of Quan and Lawrence.

The depth of corruption in the LAPD is so serious that my first inclination for a CT centers around them. The confusion around manifestos feels absolutely like deliberate misinformation. For some reason, they want us to be thinking about the manifesto. They want us to focus on what's in there. They know it's inflammatory...which means it's also distracting.

Anderson Cooper received a note and a DVD. The contents of neither of these have been revealed, and both are in the hands of...the LAPD.

What evidence was on that DVD? What did Dorner say in the note? What did he know that the LAPD is so desperate to keep quiet?

reply to post by sepermeru


You have raised some really interesting points about the whole issue with how these incidents were timed, and the locations of which they occurred is interesting as well.

None of this really adds up at all. It's so bizarre and inexplicable.

I am just going to have to think about it because I really cannot put my finger on what is up with all of this just yet.

I will admit the further I look into it the more mysterious it becomes, and I do see some patterns emerging that remind me of some other events.

I just have a really underlying gut feeling that this whole story is some sort of bait. But for what purpose I have no clue? Maybe, maybe not. Not like we will ever know since the govt/media doesn't really like telling us much.

Originally posted by sepermeru
Chris Dormer spent the majority of his time over the last several years being trained in "underwater" demolitions and other SEAL-related skills, and was returned to active duty shortly after beginning his career as a police officer -- in order to guard an oil platform, a strange use of the investment into his training the military spend time and money providing him.

I've given my opinion in the other thread that Dorner's military service was 90% desk driving and powerpointing - nowhere near the badass navy commando he is trying to portray himself as. Until we hear something from someone who served under him or trained with him in the navy, all the talk about SERE and dems and unconventional warfare is pure speculation.

Here's a bit of a snippet about his police service by someone who served with him on the LAPD. I'm not prepared to link the source, so take my word for it or not.

...this jackass is no "Punisher". As a recruit, he shot himself while off duty and with an unauthorized weapon. He struggled with the PT requirements and we often wondered how he made it through college, let alone Naval OCS.

As far as the elapsed time, it's because his appeals to the State to get his job back just came back in the negative. Due to the fact that he was terminated due to integrity issues, the Navy pulled his TS and chose not to continue his employment there either.

So if accurate, that snippet gives us an idea of the man.

1. Shot himself? Jee-zus. However his Manifesto I believe talks about being in trouble for a "negligent discharge" while an LAPD cop. But to shoot himself? Take that as rumor material until proven, but - just wow.

2. Struggled with PT requirements - for police service? Yep, he was a donut-munching desk driver in the Navy - I can guarantee it. He's solid and muscular but has a fair amount of visible body fat in his photo. Any sort of prolonged cardio would be a problem for him. Lifting heavy things? Not so much.

3. He apparently wasn't very highly regarded by his colleagues - but that's also one former colleague's opinion and not really relevant to the case.

4. He lost his appeal to the LAPD over his dismissal and the loss of the appeal meant the loss of his military Top Secret clearance, making him redundant there too. You can clearly see from that alone why he'd be angry. Two careers and a future hinged on that LAPD appeal. Bummer for him. Not condoning ANYTHING he's done, but it's clear his life was ripped apart - very recently - and he's snapped. It will kill him and if he's in the right as per his manifesto then it's quite sad. However, what's sadder is that his LAPD and Navy psych evals didn't identify this side of his personality and nip it all in the bud.

No massive earth-shattering insights in this post, just a bit of extra texture to add to our individual opinions of the man, his grievances and his crimes.

Oh, almost forgot... he owns a whole bunch of NFA toys (from Nevada). SBRs, suppressors and there's chatter about demolitions materiel and equipment. This could get far more ugly than it is now.

reply to post by sepermeru


Well.. I want to know and can someone give me this answer to clear it up for me? The manifesto. There is one version that is focused and on one topic, and there is a version that goes off on these contrived propaganda laden tangents that seem to be written by a different voice (also when you subtract those tangents you have one fluid document). The one pushed by the media is the ironically, as he is an ex cop that would have access to these guns regardless, pro gun control, pro Obama and Fienstien, with a dash of inexplicable film critique. I got the feeling it was manipulated to push agenda so the people that would get behind this man who has the potential to gather a following loses that edge as the people that would back him would be immediately turned off by the pro obama and assault weapon ban support. So there is motive for the manipulation and media pushing it (like i've never seen a manifesto pushed). Everyone is talking about these tangent excerpts matter of factly even though I have seen a version with none of that junk. My question is which one is real? Was it manipulated? If so by who and why have there not been retractions. Were these things complete fabrications or things he had posted publicly that other people mixed into his manifesto to skew his message?

As to the OP.. I think it is possible, it depends on his mental state. Let's play what if.
What if he had been pressing for his info and whistleblowing (he still was trying to get his job back in 2011. Say these people get killed randomly by some punk and they start seeking this cop as a suspect. He sees it and says "holy # they are going to put me away for this info" and so he decides it's kill or be killed/locked up and silenced. He gathers his stuff and types up his manifesto. The only reason I only entertain this idea (like ehhh maaybe) is because of the cops reactions unloading on two different vehicles and injuring civilians. They are out to kill this man. They don't want him alive which leads me to believe he may have had real recourse and worse things to out them on. Now I am not saying this is what I believe, or that I support him because I don't, but I am willing to entertain the concept. The reason I can't wholly buy it is that this looks like it has taken some planning. It is possible though that he only killed the one cop and the other murders were unrelated but about to be pinned on him.

Who knows, but they obviously do not want him talking and the LAPD has made a debauchery out of this. I mean they shot up two civilian vehicles injuring two women. So they kind of proved his point.

As my disclaimer I want to make it clear I don't support violence. I prefer the concept of taking it apart from a suit and on the inside. However this could be a different type of man than is being portrayed on the run from people afraid of the truth. They better take him alive (they wont) but either way when this is over a #storm is coming to the LAPD.

Also I have considered that he may lay low for weeks or months and pop up to attack more cops. He said a war of attrition and as far as I know they haven't gotten him so I get the feeling he planned this well and as he said planned an asymmetrical warfare and discussed demolition. If he keeps underground.. I think he might be capable of some bad stuff in regards to the LAPD.

reply to post by sepermeru


This guy is the death cop.

You have the right to remain silent, FOREVER!

It seems like it's one distraction, after another. So many "cameras" yet, so little "evidence"??? That, alone, should send up red flags.

Let me ask this question: How do we KNOW Dorner even exists? How do we know he's alive and well? How do we KNOW??? How do we know it's not another "false flag"; another scene to the storyline, for the set-up. The way people comment; whether it be on this topic, Sandy Hook or whatever tomorrow's theme may be, they talk as if they "know". We don't know Jack about squat. We only "know" what they feed us. We only "know" what they tell us. Turn off the television, and we wouldn't "know" a thing.

I doubt if the lapd was involved in the framing they would sacrifice the daughter of an retired captain.
So far nobody has come forward in support of Dorner, or made the claim he was framed.

What about the manifest he released, where he threatens to kill the officers family, is there any reason to believe it was not published my Dorner?

The manifesto I read doesn't make sense.

In it, the person talks about complaints etc ... racism in the LAPD and discusses targets, but the person didn't think to try and make any of this public before killing people?

They waited until they lost their job before actually doing anything useful. The stories the person tells in their manifesto don't seem too hard to believe, but at the same time don't always paint this character out to be sane. In one situation, Dorner strangles a fellow police office over a verbal altercation unless I'm deeply mistaken ... though the other office was using racial slurs.

My friends who are police or army sometimes say some really not politically correct things ... so that part makes sense. I just question how Dorner went from ... angry in job ------------------------------------> rampage.

Is there something in between I'm missing other than Dorner becoming unemployable?

Crazy side thought: people being targetted by Dorner's information could kill witnesses and blame it on him.

Dorner's service record doesn't look like anything special. He has an Expert Pistol ribbon and a Rifle Marksman ribbon...which is the minimum qualification for the rifle. He lost his Navy security clearance in 2009, which he blamed on the LAPD.

He did a 6 month stint overseas attached to a unit in Bahrain, Nov 06 - Apr 07. Which i'm guessing sent him TDY to Iraq and Kuwait for a bit.

www.10news.com...

www.rgj.com...

I also read about an interview with someone who was stationed with him in Kuwait during that same time frame, where he played flag football and apparently took care of some stray cats....
www.ocregister.com...

Personally i just think he's another wack job with some mental issues, who blames others for his problems and screw ups.

Personally i just think he's another wack job with some mental issues, who blames others for his problems and screw ups.

reply to post by bg_socalif


I hope your right.

If this guy is for real. He has managed to make everyone look incompetent.

He has managed to evade the FBI and every other police agency.

I think he will reach out to the media. We will see...

My question: Why would anyone in a position of authority go through the trouble of framing this man, letting it become an international story - open to dissection by a population that is developing quite the ravenous need and desire to not believe any "official story" that is offered... when this supposed power could just have shot the guy in the head, blamed a crackhead and barely even made the local news?

Occams razor suggests that this is what it seems to be... A very angry man in some sort of a psychotic episode - acting out.

~Heff

Originally posted by nottelling
I've given my opinion in the other thread that Dorner's military service was 90% desk driving and powerpointing - nowhere near the badass navy commando he is trying to portray himself as. Until we hear something from someone who served under him or trained with him in the navy, all the talk about SERE and dems and unconventional warfare is pure speculation.

Here's a bit of a snippet about his police service by someone who served with him on the LAPD. I'm not prepared to link the source, so take my word for it or not.



So if accurate, that snippet gives us an idea of the man.

1. Shot himself? Jee-zus. However his Manifesto I believe talks about being in trouble for a "negligent discharge" while an LAPD cop. But to shoot himself? Take that as rumor material until proven, but - just wow.

Thats strange because I watched a news snippet last night on my local Los Angeles station where they interviewed one of his former co-workers from the LAPD who did not want to be identified, who said he was a Bad [snipped]. And that he was especially talented in shooting pistols with his weak side. Just more conflicting information.

Do you guys think that the LAPD added the extra crap on his manifesto to see if he would surface and make the correction, hence giving them a better chance of murdering him?