EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

You Americans are soo funny. If Alawki and his son were plotting attacks against the US, which I presume they were, and ended up killing US Citizens you'd all be like "COME ON!!! WE KNOW WHERE HE IS!!! ATTACK HIM!! Don't we have some guidance missiles or something???" Like most of you hyped up on Hollywood peep would...

and when he does, it's a big deal.

The day a white US citizen is killed on American soil with a drone, will be the start of a civil war and the media will be on your side. Seriously.


Edit: Didn't Alwaki encourage Hasan for the Fort Hood shooting?

Originally posted by roadgravel
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

CIA created Al Qaeda. The CIA should be on the drone target list since they are upper management.

Hard to believe it can keep getting worse. Evil has no limit, it seems.

We have VERY different and VERY strongly held opinions on that. I'll politely agree to disagree because there are far larger things to worry about as this thread and many other stories here and elsewhere show, then who made who 20 years ago.

None of that matters at this point and our troops aren't being blown to pieces by CIA assets. CIA Case Officers aren't being blown to mist by their own colleagues. Whatever was or wasn't has little bearing on what we see in the world right now, today, IMHO.

You can bet the CIA is still stirring the pot. They do many thing that have negative effects on the US. Belive in tem if you so desire. History of southeast asia, central american, and endless list.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Ummm.... Anyway...So how far does one need to go? Get suckered into a series of chats? Read Inspire a few times? Write ..ahem... "disloyal" messages on a wild internet website? Since WHEN did assassination of citizens inside the nation even get TALKED about?!

When did assassinations of citzens get talked about? never! its just always been done. Now its getting talked about which just proves how regular it has become, they are even legislating to cover their assess when they do it, sneaky pricks

Originally posted by roadgravel
You can bet the CIA is still stirring the pot. They do many thing that have negative effects on the US. Belive in tem if you so desire. History of southeast asia, central american, and endless list.

I never suggested I believed in them. I don't think the rank and file case officer is any more evil than anyone else working in Government. That is to say, they're used the same as the rest. One of the first casualties in these wars was a CIA case officer by the name of Johnny Micheal Spann. If you've never heard the name or how he was killed, you ought to look into it. I've read that event now from 3 different perspectives of direct knowledge or witness to it and it never gets any better.

Mixed feelings on actual cause leaves me dropping it there but it's got nothing to do with any idea that he died working against the American public in any way.

Now.... If we want to talk about the pencil pushing puzzle makers in CIA management and command of their active side? That's a WHOLE different story and as the saying goes "Oh! what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive!". To the extent the case officers are used as pawns and play toys, that's where the game plans are made to play from.

I've spent far too much time educating myself about what, how and why the U.S. was involved in Afghanistan during the Soviet Invasion. Far more tragically though, why and HOW we just turned our backs, wished them well and left them to die at the hands of people like the Taliban to think those people would EVER have worked with US even if our side would have worked with THEM. Bin Laden was heard to say more than once that he'd take a live CIA officer as quickly as he'd take a Russian one if he could get away with it...and that was WHILE we were supplying Stingers to the Mujahideen over the Paki- border. He and his band of wackos were not thought well of by anyone as I've understood it by research and effort to get at the truth.

So.. as I said.. We'll disagree and not much will change that. I'm pretty entrenched on this one without solid, sourced and verifiable information to trump what I've read and found myself going back to the early 90's. That was before anyone could have even imagined what would come years later to lie about things then. Not so perfectly for it all to fit the way some suggest it does.

Just do me the favor of not assuming what I do believe. Ask me...but don't assume. On this, you assumed very wrong to where my true feelings lay. BTW, I'm painfully....deeply..painfully..aware of the crap the Criminals in Authority pulled in Southeast Asia. I'm WELL aware of how much of the Central American operations in the 1980's were funded when Congress balked...and I suspect it's business as usual, given the ready sources of funding that exist today. Criminal lack of ethics or honor doesn't equal evil. That's just par for the course in Government. ALL Governments.

reply to post by Swills


"if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders"

this is what's #$%^&^&*ing wrong with this countries legal system

IF THEY ARE BELIEVED

We have people that don't believe the moon is there and people who still think the earth is flat, would you want these people being the ones making the decisions on what to believe? lol what a #$%%^&ing farce of a system.

And to top it off "even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S" so much for habeas corpus lol


and ok so they ok the drone strike, im pretty sure they blow lots of stuff up around them, so what happens to or for the innocent people found dead around the "believed" terrorist, oh well to bad so sorry?

told yah, nazi germany won the war, we are now nazi germany.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


"None of that matters at this point and our troops aren't being blown to pieces by CIA assets. CIA Case Officers aren't being blown to mist by their own colleagues."


you have no proof of that, but there is plenty showing they kill their own, bhengazi? (maybe)

reply to post by CALGARIAN


"The day a white US citizen is killed on American soil with a drone, will be the start of a civil war and the media will be on your side. Seriously"


well great so if they kill people with ethnic backgrounds we might not here about it till half the country is dead,,,

we are the melting pot of course, heh not just white people anymore. (was it ever all white?)

reply to post by Swills


well there is this.

Nobel Peace Prize Nominee: Obama Asks Military Leaders If They Will “Fire On US Citizens”

Shock claim purported to come from “one of America’s foremost military heroes”

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
January 22, 2013

2009 Nobel Peace Prize nominee Jim Garrow shockingly claims he was told by a top military veteran that the Obama administration’s “litmus test” for new military leaders is whether or not they will obey an order to fire on U.S. citizens.

Garrow was nominated three years ago for the prestigious Nobel Peace Prize and is the founder of The Pink Pagoda Girls, an organization dedicated to rescuing baby girls from “gendercide” in China. Garrow has been personally involved in “helping rescue more than 36,000 Chinese baby girls from death.” He is a public figure, not an anonymous voice on the Internet, which makes his claim all the more disturbing.

“I have just been informed by a former senior military leader that Obama is using a new “litmus test” in determining who will stay and who must go in his military leaders. Get ready to explode folks.“The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”. Those who will not are being removed,” Garrow wrote on his Facebook page, later following up the post by adding the man who told him is,“one of America’s foremost military heroes,” whose goal in divulging the information was to “sound the alarm.”

Garrow’s claim is even more explosive given that the country is in the throes of a national debate about gun control, with gun rights advocates keen to insist that the founders put the second amendment in the Constitution primarily as a defense against government tyranny.

It also follows reports on Sunday that General James Mattis, head of the United States Central Command,“is being told to vacate his office several months earlier than planned.”

Concerns over US troops being given orders to fire on American citizens in the event of mass gun confiscation first arose in 1995 when hundreds of Marines at 29 Palms, California were given a survey as part of an academic project by Navy Lieutenant Commander Ernest Guy Cunningham which asked the Marines if they would,“Fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the United States government.”

The survey was subsequently leaked because many of the Marines who took it were shocked by the tone of the question.

www.topix.com...

www.examiner.com...
www.examiner.com...

1800guntrader.com...

theintelhub.com...

______beforeitsnews/obama/2013/01/shocking-warning-dr-jim-garrow-obama-only-wants-military-leaders-who-will-fire-on-u-s-citizens-2447140.html

educate-yourself.org...

www.youtube.com...

www.ronpaulforums.com...(originator-of-Obama-Military-high-command-rumor)-Talks-With-Alex-Jones

maybe the turn out was not so great so they will have to rely on drones to make up the difference.

Right to bear arms won't be much use to people when there is drones attacking them.

reply to post by lacrimaererum


no, a technician and a laptop will.....

The US Constitution....

"Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Bold lettering added...

There is NO justifications, exceptions, caviats, yea buts, or any reasons listed in this document allowing the murder of US citizens with out a trial.

reply to post by Swills


I'm gonna play devils advocate here.

Let's say someone goes in and robs a bank. While robbing the bank they kill 10 people and are fleeing the scene, running around loose on the street armed and dangerous.

Now the cops are gonna come looking for you to take you down.
You don't want to come easily and start shooting at the police.
The cops shoot back and kill you.

Are we not looking at a similar situation? There's no trial no due process.
Discuss.

This just shakes me to the core. Nothing will prevent them from using drones on US soil to kill SUSPECTED terror big wigs who just happen to be US Citizens. Wow! No arrest... No charges, No indictment. Just Pure Suspicion... Just like the case with Anwar Alwalaki.... If they can get away with that under the "law" they can get away with anything...

Assassination by drone is the new norm for Obama and the man who masterminded the program.. Screw due process and intel gathering....

The government "believed" that iraq had WMD, the government was so sure in that "belief" that they started a war over it.The government should not legally be allowed to kill anybody based purely on "beliefs" because those "beliefs" might turn out to be wrong.
This is clearly unconstitutional so why hasn`t this been brought before the supreme court yet?

reply to post by Tardacus


Those WMD's ended up in Syria who most recently threatened to use them on the rebels... Marked on the warheads "if found please return to Saddam"... They knew we were coming and bugged them out...

I remember this interesting story from 2010 which seems to corroborate the testimony given by Saddam's #2 general in 2006
pjmedia.com...

Doubt we will ever know for sure unless we can physically get our hands on what Syria has threatened to use..

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
"associated force" eh? What the hell constitutes a leader?! The majority of Al Qaeda street fighters have a grade school education at best.

Al Qaeda's LEADERS are not un-educated...Osama Bin Laden and other leaders are recruited because of thier intelligence and education...the soldiers of Al Qaeda are the uneducated ones recruited as living bombs.

This memo specifies specifically "Operational Leaders"

Kahn was one "American" taken out by a drone strike..

Here’s a quote from an al Qaeda magazine interview of 24 year old American citizen Samir Khan who was born in Saudi Arabia, grew up in Queens NY, and use to live in North Carolina:

"I am proud to be a traitor to America.”

"I am a traitor to America because my religion requires me to be.

We pledge to wage jihad for the rest of our lives until either we implant Islam all over the world or meet our Lord as bearers of Islam."

answersforthefaith.com...

He exploited his knowledge of America to recruit American Jihadists and helped recruit US Maj. Hasan who mowed down fellow soliders at Ft. Hood. Khan was killed beside Anwar al-Awlaki in 2011 via drone strike.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000Ummm.... Anyway...So how far does one need to go? Get suckered into a series of chats? Read Inspire a few times? Write ..ahem... "disloyal" messages on a wild internet website? Since WHEN did assassination of citizens inside the nation even get TALKED about?!

They specified "operational leaders"...

That said...this needs to be hammered. It is actually dumb for the Pres. to get a legal opinion. It creates a legal precedent, whereas they could have continued to operate in murky waters in the shadows...rather than establish a legal foundation that while places the Administration on safer ground, also can be exploited by future Presidents. Just because the policy is being used to rightl defend America now, doesn't mean it won't be used for bad purposes in the future. Congress, the security council and others should immediately intervene and demand full oversight...this legal "authority" needs to be excised, like a cancer as soon as possible. The GOP are fans of witch hunts, well they have a a real witch for once and they should chase it down and drown it. Fingers crossed.

Ok, let me see if I have gotten this straight. Here in America, if you break a law, you either go to jail or pay a fine. If you commit a crime, it is usually jail time after a trial of some sort. If you commit murder, it usually ends up in a trial that may get an acquittal (think OJ et al) or you may end up doing many years time while waiting for some sort of death device (injection, chair, other?) . Hang around with the wrong crowd, maybe discuss Al Queda on a site like ATS or have very polarized political views that may be interpreted as "terrorist thoughts" and one day you walk out your door and 'Poof!' you've been taken out by a drone with no warning, no opportunity to explain, no trial, just done in by your own tax dollars and maybe your own son/daughter whom you so patriotically supported in their decision to join the armed forces.
Is this the picture of a free and brave country?

This is a silent, sanctioned, lynching and an act of cowardice on our DHS and other ABC's as they don't want to confront and be wrong on our own soil, rather kill them off with no repercussions.

reply to post by Swills

this is disgusting on so many levels. this government has gotten to big, and to powerful, they need to be humbled

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

"None of that matters at this point and our troops aren't being blown to pieces by CIA assets. CIA Case Officers aren't being blown to mist by their own colleagues."


you have no proof of that, but there is plenty showing they kill their own, bhengazi? (maybe)

What proof is is you'd want to see or ever accept? Any prisoners the US has taken alive to prove the point I'm sure some will just say are plants, lies or outright fabricators. Any statements by the troops themselves of what, who and how they see it happening to them in Afghanistan or earlier, in Iraq is obviously dismissed out of hand and given no weight or you wouldn't be asking at all.

SO, outside of the impossibility of proving a negative and particularly in a war zone and on an active battlefield? How is it anyone sitting here at their keyboards in the United States can prove what you ask?

What I will do is take the word of my own family members who have been over there. (and over..and over...and damnit, time to bring 'em home) One such relative was in the first wave of Marines to arrive in Afghanistan when the CIA was told to stand down and the Marines were told to head in and make a proper war out of what was almost over before it started....if it'd been allowed to play out naturally. So I'm going by a fairly wide base of individual perspectives for time and place in this overall war.

What would you be suggesting though? There are no radical Islamic fighters standing against U.S. forces?

By the way... Benghazi proves itself quite handily if you look at the documents dumped by Darrell Issa's committee early on. Think what you like about the man or his party motivations. The documents generated by the compound, the Embassy in Tripoli and Washington detail the events for months prior and up to the time our people were murdered at the consulate compound. It's very damning.