Iran’s cutting-edge Fighter a hoax, critics claim, page 11

reply to post by neformore

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I am more than happy to post the realities of U.S. Military weaknesses when and where they exist...however this is not the case here.

In the examples by some here as they either pertain to War Games or an Adversarial Countries ability to pop up undetected inside a U.S. Carrier Groups defensive perimiter....many people here are not taking into account either the reason for such events as well as the conditions.

In the exaple of the War Games...as a friendly nations sub scored hits when playing the agressor....conditions were specifically changed and modified to allow this nations sub to even have a chance of scoring a hit.

In a REAL Naval Battle...ANY SUBS anywhere near 1000 Miles of a U.S. Carrier Group would be being tracked by U.S. Satellites equiped with Ground and Ocean penetrating Radar as well as detectable by such U.S. Satellites Gravimetric detection and Magnotometer detection capabilities.

These War Games were specific to allowing U.S. Surface Ships to gain experience in tracking and possibly sinking an advanced Sub. If U.S. Subs been allowed to be serving an active search and destroy role...that sub would have had NO CHANCE.

U.S. Ocean Floor Listening Mics were also not allowed to be used in this excersize. Thus the game was set as if the U.S. had used all ways to detect, track and kill such a sub...the war game would ahve been over before it was started.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Adaluncatif

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ABM's such as the Patriot lacked in Range, Speed and ability to be able to aquire targeted missiles fast enough with their Computer System for any capability to do so for multiple incoming targets greater than a handful.

These are no longer issues for the current U.S. ABM/ASAT that is the improved SM-3.

These mainly Cruiser Based ABM's were redesigned using a new...Long Burn High Powered Solid Fuel that allowed them to obtain Hypersonic Velocity as well as by using a Networked Group of Supercomputers...gave this Missile the ability to track and target mutiple incomming missiles and intercept and destroy them at high velocity and at Orbital Distances.

These SM-3's are right now the best in the World and will eventually be augmented by the FEL.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

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So what you're saying is that you, sitting behind your computer screen there, know better than the people I know, who were honest to god real life experienced sonar operators on 688(i) boats. They weren't actually surprised by an Akula, and actually knew exactly where it was the entire time. They just either didn't know what they were seeing on the screen, or weren't told it was there, but it was actually on their sonar screen the whole time.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by SplitInfinity

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So what you're saying is that you, sitting behind your computer screen there, know better than the people I know, who were honest to god real life experienced sonar operators on 688(i) boats. They weren't actually surprised by an Akula, and actually knew exactly where it was the entire time. They just either didn't know what they were seeing on the screen, or weren't told it was there, but it was actually on their sonar screen the whole time.

Trust is a dangures thing.

It makes you so much easier to be lied to.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by golemina

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ALL current fighters are unstable as hell. That's how they get so maneuverable. The F-117 was called the Wobblin Goblin because if they lost any part of the flight control computer it would tuck and tumble. The F-16 was one of the first to be deliberately built unstable. There isn't a current fighter out there that can fly if the flight control computer goes out, because that's the only thing keeping them stable.

It's called relaxed stability. By making it less stable, then smaller control inputs are required to maneuver the aircraft. A positively stable aircraft, like most commercial aircraft, will maintain straight and level flight once it's trimmed. A relaxed stability aircraft has to be actively flown at all times. You can trim it to help, but you have to keep a much closer eye on it than a positively stable aircraft.

Actually they are NOT built to purposely be unstable, to get the performance and handling out of aircraft like the F-18 it has to be controlled by a computer because of all the small adjustments it has to make.
Maybe that is what you meant, but I know firsthand Iran is NOT in any position to tangle with the USAF! If anyone wants to know how I know this and how I was involved in Iran purchasing obsolete F86 Saber Jets in the 1980;s (after I repaired Luftwaffe target tugs that had the wings torched off) I will be glad to explain.

reply to post by wulff

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It's relaxed stability. In a positive stability aircraft, you trim it, and it stays flying in that position if you take your hands off the control column. In a relaxed stability aircraft, such as the F-16, and most modern fighters, if you trim it, and you take your hands off the stick, the aircraft is going to go into a turn, or is going to do something other than fly how it's trimmed. You have to constantly keep control inputs into the aircraft. It also means it's unstable.

reply to post by maes2

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No one but the US has the F-22, and no one else ever will have the F-22. It can't be exported, and the assembly line to make them is now shut down, so it would be prohibitively expensive to get them.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by maes2

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No one but the US has the F-22, and no one else ever will have the F-22. It can't be exported, and the assembly line to make them is now shut down, so it would be prohibitively expensive to get them.

really, I did not know it. I just said what I had heard. what about F 35.
do you mean that they will not sell them to Saudi Arabia or Turkey. I know that Saudi arabia and UAE and others buy many weapons from USA and others yearly.
so what the hell do they buy every year !? if they do not buy high tech fighters from USA, so they are just some stupid customers.
what about Israel. it can reach USA more easily.
anyhow USA has enough camps in the middle east to use it's fighters itself.

reply to post by maes2

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They have a few F-22s stationed in Saudi Arabia.

reply to post by spy66

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They were in Dubai, not Saudi, and they came home a few weeks ago. They went over last summer, and came home in mid January.

reply to post by maes2

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F-15Es, F-15C upgrades (AESA radar, etc), M-1s, quite a few things that are more advanced than a lot of countries in the area have. They are quite up to date. In fact Dubai has the most advanced version of the F-16 ever built, in the Desert Falcon. It's more advanced than any the US flies currently.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by maes2

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No one but the US has the F-22, and no one else ever will have the F-22. It can't be exported, and the assembly line to make them is now shut down, so it would be prohibitively expensive to get them.

I agree, there are some aircraft in our stables that can't be sold even to our allies case in point
1. B-1 B "Bone"
2. B-2
3. The A10 "Warthog" and even my old ride the B-52 has always been 'ours'.

This is one of the few things our government has done right!
Also, as much as I love the looks (I always thought it looked better than the Raptor) and performance of the F-16 but it's a 1970's design and is rapidly being obsoleted and as it is being sold to our so-called "friends" we have to stay a step ahead of it.

reply to post by wulff

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Actually, the most advanced F-16 ever built is the Block 60 Desert Falcon that the UAE flies. It even beats the USAF birds (they only have the Block 50/52). The Block 60 is a nice jet.

F-16E/F Block 60


Based on the F-16C/D Block 50/52, it features improved radar and avionics and conformal fuel tanks; it has only been sold to the United Arab Emirates. At one time, this version was incorrectly thought to have been designated "F-16U." A major difference from previous blocks is the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, which gives the airplane the capability to simultaneously track and destroy ground and air threats. The Block 60's General Electric F110-GE-132 engine is a development of the -129 model and is rated at 32,500 lbf (144 kN). The Electronic Warfare system is supposed to be quite advanced and includes the Northrop Grumman Falcon Edge Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite RWR together with the AN/ALQ-165 Self-Protection Jammer. Falcon Edge, which was developed by Northrop Grumman specifically for the Block 60, is capable of showing not only the bearing of any threat but also the range. The Block 60 allows the carriage of all Block 50/52-compatible weaponry as well as AIM-132 Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM) and the AGM-84E Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM). The CFTs provide an additional 450 US gallon (2,045 L) of fuel, allowing increased range or time on station. This has the added benefit of freeing up hardpoints for weapons that otherwise would have been occupied by underwing fuel tanks. The MIL-STD-1553 data bus is replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber-optic data bus which offers a 1,000 times increase in data-handling capability. UAE funded the entire $3 billion Block 60 development costs, and in exchange will receive royalties if any of the Block 60 aircraft are sold to other nations. According to press reports quoted by Flight International, this is "the first time the US has sold a better aircraft [F-16] overseas than its own forces fly".[13]
Like the F-35, the Block 60 F-16 has a built in FLIR/laser targeting system rather than using a dedicated pod that would occupy a hardpoint, increase drag and RCS.[14]

Wiki

reply to post by Zaphod58

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Thanks for the info, being from the 'heavy's' I also like reading about the fighters!

lol, first thing I thought of....

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