The New National Identification System Is Coming [See Immigration]

Fear mongering? Or the real reason for immigration reform?

National ID Article

“Maybe we should just brand all the babies.” With this joke, Ronald Reagan swatted down a national identification card — or an enhanced Social Security card — proposed by his attorney general in 1981. For more than three decades since, attempts to implement the proposal have all met with failure, but now national ID is back, and it’s worse than ever.

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A long time this has been in the making and it's certainly been a touchy subject. We as a people aren't too enthusiastic about a 'Show me your papers' kind of society.

After the election, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), who is leading the Democrats immigration push, told NBC News that one of his top priorities was to “make sure that there is a non-forgeable document” for all employees. After years of pushing for one, Sen. Schumer may have broken through GOP opposition. “We’re going to have to come up with something, but the principle we all agree on,” Sen. Chuck Schumer said this week.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) told Politico that he was for “a super Social Security card that would have some sort of biometric things like a fingerprint in it.” Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-S.C.)—also, a longtime supporter of national ID — agrees. “You’ll have documents that can’t be faked,” he told CBS News after the election.

A biometric, potentially RFID equipped piece of ID. Ideally carried at all times and used for absolutely anything and everything. Imagine a world where the government CAN track you, simply be requiring ID for purchases of various goods and services.

"Security Checkpoints" could become the norm depending on what other measures show up in these proposed immigration bills.

The Senate immigration bill will mandate all employers use E-Verify to check the immigration status of their employees. Right now, employers can voluntarily submit the employee’s name and number to check if they match the name and number in the system. If the names or numbers don’t match, you must take further steps to prove your identity at SSA offices.

The system creates a guilty-until-proven-innocent approach to employment that also allows DHS to monitor every worker throughout the country. Some proposed mandates would require employees who work multiple jobs to automatically visit SSA offices — the new DMVs of employment — to prove that they really do work both jobs.

The 1st paragraph discusses something we already know about, but the 2nd one, wow. How could they devise that plan and think it was viable? Report to SSA offices to prove you work?

Insulting.

So that's what I think immigration will be used for. To place travel restrictions and create sub sets of citizens who must then go through the hoops of proving their identity to a government.

This will need another agency no doubt or an inflating of an existing agency such as ICE. Considering the effectiveness of governments concerning immigration, I expect it to be another giant failure.

ETA: As a side note, this to seems all fabricated together with the struggle for gun control. Although I highly doubt they will ever come for the guns in that sense, I do see them attempting more ridiculous restrictions along with the travel ones I mention above.

~Tenth

It's all gearing towards an implantable key and we are building our own cages. Once in place this key then interfaces with your car, access to internet, banking, geo-fencing, control point access, real time tracking, etc. It's not enough to just be a free range slave, they want their property marked and accounted for.

If you submit to this level of control you become firmly imbedded into a system of assimilation. Unfortunately those who are already dis-empowered will be the first to submit to their digital gods.

Whats needed is stricter laws against companies and individuals who higher undocumented Immigrants, the whole un-forgeable thing is BS the government can not even make the currency fool proof from forging. Anyone with the time and resources can defeat the system. Employers who higher people illegally now will continue to do so, making a Super ID will not change that.



Its much like the gun control debate, the Stated reason is a red-herring and an excuse to in-act stricter controls against the Citizens.

How much freedom do we have if we have to have government ID's just to get a job in this country now, as is the "Papers Please" part of Arizona law was up held, I can see it now check points to restrict travel between states where we need our "national ID" to pass and travel.

Nazi Germany much?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Imagine a world where the government CAN track you, simply be requiring ID for purchases of various goods and services.

I thought they did that already? Never figured out why a chip is needed in a bankcard... here in the UK they claimed it was so you could use the "chip and pin", instead of swipe and sign... but one of my debit cards from a different country used to use the pin without a chip (with the strip)! Of course all new passports also have the chip...

I also have an ID card from one of the countries I've lived in... it's only got my birthdate, the equalent to social security number in the country (I got those in 5 different countries), a picture and my signature.

Here in the UK they were talking about having eye scan details, finger print details, etc on the ID cards. The idea has been scrapped for now.

I like the ID card I got - it's perfect - shows that I am me and also what age I am, incase that's ever needed for something. Anything else I find intrusive and un-needed. Just another way to chain us up on a shorter and shorter chain.

It's a good thing our troops have been giving their lives to defend our freedoms.

The terrorists hate us for our freedoms... so to battle that, we need to lose our freedoms. That will show those terrorists who's got the real power.

Does anyone still believe in that fairy tale?

Yea, well this is all going to gel when they remove cash from the system. They will say it is to prevent robbery, drug dealing, and all manner of illegal transactions. That is how they will sell it. I believe Canada has already announced an end to cash is coming there. They can't do it if they can't stop people from using faked documents. Eventually, they will claim that documents can be stolen, etc, and the reason they need to chip everyone to work in the cashless system. If people don't resist this, they will be fulfilling many prophecies about not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. The beast being the government, US or world. I recall reading an article that I think was about Arizona where the people would not pay fines for the traffic cameras and finally they had to remove them because the company couldn't afford to keep running. Either the people opt out of the system and start bartering or finding other ways to trade things of value or the system will become more and more restrictive and encumbering until the citizens are seriously imprisoned in an invisible system of bars.

Just IMHO.

double post removed

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I am in essence FOR a common ID CARD. However nor for a tracking ID -chip. ID has a 2-fold way of being looked at. Much of the tracking devices have their "positive" side. For example the "On-Star" navigation system that can get help to you when in an accident. Cell tracking for missing persons, etc. Where it becomes dangerous is when the Government has all the data only. For example we gripe about the many "Ponzi-schemes". Well with a national ID, someone claiming to have a "deal" you cant afford not to take, could be checked in an instant. The ID car problem is much more the problem that only ONE side can check the data, namely TPTB. If a national ID system would enable every citizen to check the validity and claims of another, then we would be protected much better against fraud and scammers. ID and certifications could enable employers to check for the validity of an applicants claim. No more "fake doctors" in "specialty clinics" and so forth. It could be an ID bracelet, that would remain "non-tracking" but would activate a tracing alert when exposed to a certain amount of force. In an accident or in Some danger as a Violent assault. Or it could be triggered with carbon Monoxide, heat sensors and so to locate people trapped in burning buildings.
IF an ID-system would enable ALL of us to access the proper informations and not just the government, then it would make a lot more sense.
Another issue concerning ID.
I am not living in the USA, but I am amazed at the sheer number of law enforcement agencies. I am pretty much used to my local Police, the RCMP - (our version of an FBI) and CISIS - (Our version of an CIA). And a few additional enforcement agencies as tax and coast guard and wildlife agencies. A friend of mine who headed the security during the Atlanta Olympics for the German team was amazed that he alone had to deal with over 40!!! US agencies on a simple few square miles wide Olympic site.
Now with so many agencies, HOW can an average citizen know who is "real" and who is a fraud? Add to this the many Private Security firms, and anyone can pretend to be anyone.
And adding to this: America prides itself for "Private" enterprises as being the key to a free market society. However what i rarely hear from Americans it the Notion that "WE are the Government". And security and safety should be in the hands of US, not some private entities. This means security should be in the hands of the government, which WE have elected and which WE have to control. For this it needs accountability and transparency! Security has to be centralized. They shall know what I do and I should be able to know what they do.

Signs of the time. We got cameras looking at us from many different angles, banks are tracking our income/buying habits, internet companies are monitoring everywhere we go online and what we do, law enforcement is labeling any group it wants as terrorist to keep tabs on, we got drones keeping an eye from the sky, etc.. etc..

I think it's to late to put the genie back in the bottle. The new driver licenses and future social security cards are just adding to the full picture.

reply to post by aspiechick


It's not the same as your bank.

Your bank is a private business, the government would need some sort of leverage to spy on you in that case. They require cooperation.

However National ID means Federally run programs that compiles, analyses and then distributes appropriate data to whatever other projects they have going.

No cooperation required, no warrant required. No consent required.

~tenth

It's not going to work down here in Texas as long as there is cash, groceries or trade goods. You see, we don't hire "undocumented workers", we offer persons of undetermined origin the opportunity to make "a little money on the side".

I know lots of folks, perfectly legal citizens of the good ole USA, who don't have "real jobs" with withholding and benefits - they barely scrape by with a collection of donors who give them some work from time to time in exchange for money (mostly) but here in rural Texas there's what amounts to quite a bit of share-cropping. Last time I checked, you didn't need an ID to sell stuff at the farmer's market.

I hear ya'll about the trackable ID - when my passport expires and needs to be replaced, I'm thinking a minute or two in the microwave should do the trick.

ganjoa

If preventing illegal immigrant parasites getting jobs and funneling money out of the country was really a priority, they would instead of scheming up some complex, expensive, and unnecessary system, simply require a written and oral English test be administered. If a very high level of fluency was not indicated, such as that of those whove grown up speaking English, no job, no benefits, no anything, expect perhaps a free bus ticket to the boarder.

Problem solved.

But we all know its not really about immigration, dont we?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
It's not the same as your bank.
Your bank is a private business, the government would need some sort of leverage to spy on you in that case.

I'm pretty certain it is. The banks already had all the details they needed with the swipe, there was no need for a chip. Here they tried to explain the change over with with "now you can use your pin - much safer!"... yes, maybe those that's never used a swipe card and then a pin fell for that, but as I haveused a swipe card and pin (no signature needed) I suspect some whole other reason.

That said, I think the signature thing is ridiculous (not swipe and pin. Swipe and pin = good. Swipe and sign = ridiculous. Chip and pin = someone's keeping an eye on us... and it's not the banks!). At a nearby shop one of their chip and pin machines is faulty, and I need to swipe and sign instead. Only one of my cards have my signature (embedded in the card, not the card being signed), I did the original signature about 15 years ago... I have since changed my name (new name on front of card, old name signed on the back), but they issue me a new card each year, with the same old signature. None of my other cards have been signed. They have never checked to see if my signature matches the card I use. Never. I've used about 4-5 different cards there, 1 signed that doesn't match the name on the front of the card, one an unsigned business account card (which has a business name on the front) and a few other unsigned personal account cards.

Still, I'm all for optional ID cards, that hold just the basic info. In my drinking days, when I was younger, and still got ID'd, it was my favourite choice to bring with me for a night out. Not something you worry about loosing, as you generally don't need it for anything else.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Ok now for some reality. We would be seeing a new type of crime where fingers are cut off. Or fingerprints are lifted and fabricated. Or forging their own fingerprints into documents. The criminal sort will always be there, they will just change with the times.

Mark of the Beast - 666.

I'm not going to bother I speak American English as my first and only language and if they start letting people get by without a SS number then I will quit using mine. If an illegal doesn't need ID I don't know why an Aerican would.

Having read the article that is provided and the responses the following can be stated:

While some would welcome this,others will not. There are good reasons for both.
I can not say yes it is a good idea, due to the simple fact I do not trust the federal government. Time and time again the federal government has shown that it is irresponsible with information, does not have my best interest in mind and ultimately tends to treat the very people that it is suppose to govern like second class citizens. It has been shown that there are 2 seperate laws in the country, one for those who are either rich, famous, or wealthy and one set for the rest of the people. The government has choosen not to take care of issues that with a stroke of a pen could end years of arguments, seeking further to keep the population divided and feeling unsafe. They have shown an unwise aspect to governing and only to act in a reactionary way, rather than wise, thinking about the long term consequences of their actions and acting in a proactive way. Nor has it been shown conclusively that this will preven identity theft.

On the flip side, of this issue I can see the need for a national ID, as it would mean that instead of having to pay money if I move from one state to another, the ID would be good. It would in short, if it does have the biometric data on it, could make it harder for identity theft from occuring. There are costs with that, and some do not see that. Having seen first hand on what could happen, it is a nightmare unto itself, having to call multiple orgaizations and ultimately there is no information if the person is caught. The mounds of red tape involved can be dishearting to those trying to sort out and prove that they are the victims of such a crime. The person who I was helping through this, well lets just say his identity was stolen by an illegale immigrant and about messed up his socical secrutity disabillity, if he did not catch this.

If anything I am on the fence on this one as would be many, as there are good reasons for and against a national ID card.