Obama's Second Bill of Rights is coming, page 14

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reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 05:22 AM by Kram09

reply to post by seabag

Yes my first post was petty. Sorry about that.

Are you satisfied with the status quo in America? You’re probably a Canadian who just jumped in to make a few smart remarks and grab a little attention. Move along!

Canadian? Even though my location says England...? Yes move along! Because you don't want to hear other opinions do you!?

Anyway I can't honestly believe you are implying that Obama is like Stalin. That is a shocking level of ignorance.

If that's what you believe then I'm afraid I can't take anything you say seriously.

So why is FDR the bad guy then?

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 05:26 AM by Kram09

I believe Obama has been a Stalinista

In what way?

Have their been great show trials and thousands shot out of hand?

Is there a large network of gulags where American citizens are toiling in slave labour?

Please stop with the ignorance.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 05:29 AM by Kram09

reply to post by seabag

Are you satisfied with the status quo in America?

No I am not.

But I don't believe replacing Obama as President will effectively change anything. Your politicians are essentially all the same.

Ever since 9/11 the United States has effectively been turned into an authoritarian police state. It's still continuing, but very incrementally. In a way that people don't properly notice or in which they believe it is actually for their own security.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 05:32 AM by Kram09

reply to post by seabag

Also have you ever read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists ?

Just out of curiosity.

I'm currently reading it.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 07:27 AM by timetothink

reply to post by Honor93

I had the same thought about the housing bubble.

It was engineered to lead to forclosures that were then sold of at half price or less.

It was a big scam.

Someone close to me lost their home that they owed 85,000 on and the bank sold it for 30,000......how does that work?

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 08:31 AM by gangdumstyle

Originally posted by Kram09

FDR is a villain and Obama is akin to Stalin.

All that the OP has been trying to say..

It is good people are starting to see it in the correct light.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 09:42 AM by Pervius

"""""""*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living.
""""""""""""

It was the German Americans who fed the beast that enabled America to beat the Nazi's.

The Nazi's wanted revenge on those German American farmers. They worked in American Research labs and devoted their lives to make things to destroy German-American farmers.

After every blade of grass in America got polluted with DDT/Arsenic/Radiation and the cows bioaccumulated those toxins and made their milk toxic......

EVERY German-American farmer was put out of business when the Leaders decided to start importing dried/powdered milk from 3rd world countries since every blade of America's grass was polluted making our milk bad.

The Nazi's defeated the German-American farmers in the end. Those former Nazi's are now living the high life rich from allll the money they made from us working in our Research Labs.....all the German-American farmers......all gone.

Obama could NEVER bring back or overturn what was done. The Fed's in power sided with the Nazi's as they both were making $$$$ and nobody wants to answer for what they did to that sect of America.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 12:33 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by nenothtu

well said and completely agree !!

it makes me wonder if the whole housing 'bubble' was manipulated for just that purpose ... to 'give' shelter to everyone, even the IL illegals who are obtaining driver licenses ... sure, give them the 'authority' to use our roads, (that we paid for) to earn a living that they aren't even responsible for ... just peachy.

i'm beginning to think there is more benefit in becoming an 'illegal'
after all, if they are going to lawfully practice our sovereign status ... maybe it's time to jump ahead in line ?

At one time I considered moving to Mexico, just so I could sneak back across the border and load up on freebies!

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 12:37 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Kram09

I believe Obama has been a Stalinista

In what way?

Have their been great show trials and thousands shot out of hand?

Is there a large network of gulags where American citizens are toiling in slave labour?

Please stop with the ignorance.

You're only bickering over a matter of scale, not a matter of disposition or attitude. Please stop with the ignorance indeed!

How many, in your estimation, NEED to be shot before it becomes a problem?

How many gulags, in your estimation, need to exist before it's a problem?

How many people are you willing to sacrifice before there is a "problem"?

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 12:40 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Kram09

Ever since 9/11 the United States has effectively been turned into an authoritarian police state. It's still continuing, but very incrementally. In a way that people don't properly notice or in which they believe it is actually for their own security.

It's been going on a lot longer than that. 9/11 was just a way-marker, a milestone on the road to tyranny. That seems to be what jarred the attention span of the rest of the world, what caused you all to take notice, but it's been ongoing for a long time before that, as you say - incrementally.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 01:11 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Obama isn't a socialist. If he was, then the healthcare package would have included a public option, which mind you was popular among voters at the time.

So because of the exclusion of the “public option” this entire OP is somehow discredited and Obama and his buddy Cass Sunstein have no socialist agenda now?

I think their actions and words speak louder than your opinions.

I believe Tenth is right there. Obama is not a Socialist, but he IS a Collectivist, of which Socialism is but a pale subset. Other Collectivist types include Communists, Fascists, and Corporatists. Collectivism itself is not a problem. The problems arise when collectivists monopolize control, and force their decisions on some one else, who may NOT be of the collectivist mindset. The centralization of control in collectivism is the real enemy. I don't care if collectivists set up their own cute little communes and dictate away to one another, so long as they leave me out of that loop. When you apply the concept to an entire nation, and collect and centralize the power in a single place or entity with no escape hatches for the citizens who just want to be left alone to thrive, you end up with something like the Soviet Union, Cuba, China... or the modern-day U.S.

WE THE PEOPLE are rapidly descending into the very same sort of system I spent my entire mis-spent youth fighting against. Now I'm old, and it appears the fighting never ends. No rest for the weary.

I don't care what sort of cute little label people employ to try and separate one variety collectivist from another, and thereby keep the constant arguing going. "He's a commie!" - "No he's not, because commies do this or that or the other, and he's not doing that!" It's all a sham, a charade, the intention of which is to keep people unbalanced and at each other's throats while the collectivists have their wicked way with us, laughing all the way down the halls of power because they've pulled the little blankets over everyone's eyes, keeping us from seeing the bigger picture, the main expanse of wool.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 01:18 PM by Kram09

reply to post by nenothtu

Answer the question.

Why is Barack Obama like Jospeh Stalin one of the most paranoid mass murdering tyrants in history?

It's you who is spewing ignorance.

There are none of the things I mentioned.

You need to educate yourself seriously. Instead of spouting such utter irresponsible drivel.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 01:25 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Kali74
Unless Obama is proposing turning over all production in the US to it's laborers than it isn't Socialism, it's something else. What else could it be?

Oh yeah... he's putting on a caring face while enhancing status quo Capitalism. "Don't worry folks, we won't let you starve! Just don't ask us to address the causes of poverty." Our current form of Capitalism can't exist without exploitation, if any form of Capitalism can. So yes folks, if you want to keep cheering for billionaires who got their billions by not paying a living wage... that export jobs to even cheaper labor in China etc, even though their workers here were loyal and hardworking and producing pretty profits then you'd better start cheering for welfare programs too.

No form of Socialism, or any other collectivist agenda, can exist without exploitation, either. It's exploitative of the producers to take from them and give to the leeches every bit as much so as it is to take from "the workers" and give to the corporate leeches. The only system which isn't inherently exploitative is for each to take care of himself, and whomever else HE chooses to. even then, some jackass somewhere is going to find a way to extract and exploit.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 01:39 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by nenothtu

Answer the question.

Why is Barack Obama like Jospeh Stalin one of the most paranoid mass murdering tyrants in history?

He kills and imprisons at will. Ever heard of Anwar al-Awlkai? Or his son? They escaped the physical confines of the US, but not the Wrath of Obama for having done so. Do you seriously believe those two are alone in that, or somehow "special"?

Ever heard of Jose Padilla?

Ever heard of Bradley Manning?

Don't even try to tell me that the Soviets were somehow worse in intent. As I said before, you're only bickering over a matter of scale.

It's you who is spewing ignorance.

There are none of the things I mentioned.

You need to educate yourself seriously. Instead of spouting such utter irresponsible drivel.

I live in it. There is no better education than that. If you can't see it from overseas, then it's probably just a matter of being blinded by the glare of your own gilded cage. Do you know why people in third-world countries have such a radically different view of life on the ground there than what the developed countries see?

It's because they LIVE in it.

You're on the outside looking in - and apparently trying to see through the glare.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 01:46 PM by Kram09

reply to post by nenothtu

Yes I know about them.

I know about the NDAA, the imprisonment of Bradey Manning, the persecution of whistle blowers, the ongoing drone strikes which are killing indiscriminately, the fact that the only person going to jail for the CIA torture of detainees is the man who exposed it etc etc.

I feel strongly about all those things, yet I still think it's grotesque for you to compare all that to Stalin and oppression in the Soviet Union.

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 02:07 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by neo96

No person in this country owns the land their homes or business sits on thank that genious idea to SOCIALISTS as in property taxes after all the needs of the many outweigh the need of the few.

Yes they do own the land. Property tax has not one thing to do with Socialism. Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, how does property tax have anything to do with that?

No, they don't "own" the land. Not in an objective sense. The main economic difference between the earliest system in America ("quitrents") and the current system ("taxes") is who collects your rent for the land you "own". Then it was private capitalists, now it's the socialist government. That seems to fall into the very definition of "socialism". If you think you "own" any land, just stop paying your taxes, your "rent" to the government, and see how long that "ownership" persists. The same goes for all of the buildings on that land, whether those buildings are factories or domiciles.

Here's another neat trick for an "owner" - just ignore zoning laws, and do what you want with the property you "own". If you "own" it, you can do that, right?

RIGHT?

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 02:14 PM by nenothtu

reply to post by Kram09

There is no doubt it is grotesque, but it's not inaccurate. Sometimes, when we look at a thing, it takes the ugly shock of grotesqueness to see it in all it's glory, and for what it is. Just because it can get "more grotesque" does not mean it's non-existent in the present. It just means that things can get worse if left unchecked. My goal in life is to put it in check.

To do that, I have to see what IS, in order to determine what can BE.

I don't know if you've ever been grouse hunting, but in order to successfully hunt grouse - or even catch a fly with your bare hands - you don't aim for where it IS, right now, you aim for where it WILL BE when you intercept it.

What we have here is just a matter of scale, and trajectory.

edit on 2013/2/2 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 02:18 PM by sonnny1

Originally posted by Kram09
I still think it's grotesque for you to compare all that to Stalin and oppression in the Soviet Union.

Thats ok. The comparison has been thought of in Russia also.. The Old Communist Pravda says.......

He is a Communist without question promoting the Communist Manifesto without calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia. Obama’s fools and Stalin’s fools share the same drink of illusion.

Russia lost its' civil war with the Reds and millions suffered torture and death for almost 75 years under the tyranny of the United Soviet Socialist Republic. Russians survived with a new and stronger faith in God and ever growing Christian Church. The question is how long will the once "Land of the Free" remain the United Socialist States of America? Their suffering has only begun.

Obama's Soviet Mistake

I would think those in Russia can give their "opinion" to what they feel is a good comparison, because THEY suffered it.

edit on 2-2-2013 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 02:39 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by seabag

Hmm never knew 41% or 10% of anything was ownership.
Stupid maths!

A single share constitutes "ownership", just not "sole ownership". Then again, ownership by a collective is not "sole ownership" either, is it?

edit on 2013/2/2 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-2-2013 @ 02:45 PM by nenothtu

Originally posted by XPLodER

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by XPLodER

There is a difference between EQUALITY of Opportunity and Equality of Station in Life by taking from those that have and giving to them that have not ("taking from each according to his means and giving to him according to his needs").

i wonder what Jesus Christ (pbuh) would think about the distinction,

if jesus would wash the feet of the poor and break bread with them,
would he consider the rich being so well off and the poor so impoverished as "justice"?

as a matter of station?
as a matter of social class?
as a matter of opportunity?

did he say feed the poor (except any whom you deam lazy)>?

to build the largest middle class on earth and the most wealthy nation on earth there was a top tax rate of 70%

is this not the best way to allow for each to have the fruits of the success of the society?

after all capitalism can only survive when there is an affluent middle class.

what would Jesus do (pbuh)

xploder

He would save their souls and allow them the freedom to look after their own asses. There appears to be a difference between breaking bread with someone and keeping them up for the rest of their natural and unnatural lives.

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