South Dakota House passes bill allowing school districts to arm teachers.

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posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 07:25 AM
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A bill that would allow school districts to arm teachers and other personnel with guns was approved Tuesday by the South Dakota House after supporters said it could make would-be attackers think twice about entering a school building. Read more: www.foxnews.com...


Well, finally some common sense in state legislation. The answer to violent shooting sprees is to put guns in the hands of those capable and willing to stop the people who commit such an act. This essentialy makes people already there the "first responders"

Just knowing that there are armed citizens who can and will protect children in the schools and knowing there is a good chance they won't be able to kill anyone before being fataly wounded themselves will be enough to prevent at least some potential violence in my opinion.

The answer is not taking the guns out of good peoples hands, it is getting more guns into those peoples hands and relaxing the laws that limit where the good people can have them.
edit on 30-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Smart move, considering that mass shootings always occur in gun free zones. I see some real promise in taking back our country, state by state.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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If you had some of the teachers that I had in school, youd see that this isnt a good idea.
They just need to do like my kids schools do, put a cop in the school, thats all thats needed.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


South Dakota isn't really known for being a bastion of intelligence.

I'm not surprised, and won't be surprised when North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, and Utah follow suit.

And then are we supposed to be surprised when the first teacher loses their cool and pulls their gun on a student???



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


As a parent, I have been considering this idea to arm teachers since it was thrown around a few weeks ago. Initially I was for it (knee jerk reaction perhaps) but I have since changed my opinion and I’ll tell you why. There are a LOT of people who I wouldn’t want around my kids with a gun in a stressful situation. You never know how someone is going to act under extreme duress. Even trained military and law enforce personnel can break down under that pressure, and the thought of a school teacher being put in that position (around my children) is frightening. In the military we had a term “Spray and Pray.”

Look at this case were cops shot one guy 46 times. This was the reaction of trained LE to a man with a KNIFE. Imagine the reaction of a scared, under trained, inexperienced school teacher when he/she confronts a mass murderer with a gun(s)??



Would you want your kids around when the bullets start flying in a panic? I'm all about the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms but I'm not comfortable with the idea of my kid's school teacher having a shootout with an armed killer near my children. Personally, I think high schools should have 2-3 resource officers and ALL smaller schools should have at least one resource officer. Currently there is NO resource officer at my children's elementary school.


edit on 30-1-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 


The irony is the fact that people enter "gun free" zones thinking that they are safer.

I hardly think that a teacher will pull a gun on a student, considering the multitude of alternatives they have for dealing with unruly kids. Nothing like thinking the worst of your fellow citizens. Seems to me this is the game plan.

This whole subject is designed to cause division and provide yet another distraction. Common sense should prevail, sadly it has not.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I trust the citizen that does not wear a badge more than those that do. As a parent I know the teachers and faculty, the rent-a-cop not so much.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I see where your coming from and I understand your points, they are all valid but with that said, I don't think communities across the board can afford a full time resource officer in every single elementary and middle school. I do think they should be required in every high school but I just don't know there is money in the districts to achieve that in every school.

I am not advocating giving every teacher a gun. I am saying that interviews should be held for existing staff members to identify who is not only willing but capable both mentally and physically of performing the job of being armed and prepared. Once that individual or individuals were identified, they would receive the proper training needed and be given an appropriate pay raise in line with the increased responsibility.

This idea is much different than saying, sure lets arm all the teachers and have a shoot out at every school. If done properly, this is probably the single most effective way to counter act mass shootings. I understand every parents concern about teachers having guns around students and that is why it is very important to properly identify those people within the school system who are capable and give them the right training.

While no solution is ideal, I think this is the best overall approach when you consider the other option is waiting for police to arrive to tape off the scene of already dead children.
edit on 30-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 



I trust the citizen that does not wear a badge more than those that do. As a parent I know the teachers and faculty, the rent-a-cop not so much.


Well, you’re entitled to your opinion. If my kids go to school with your kids then one of us is going to be disappointed because one of these two scenarios will happen (armed teachers or more cops).

My mother in law is a teacher. The thought of her brandishing a weapon is terrifying.


Her son (my brother in law) is a cop. I would most definitely trust him more in that situation.

edit on 30-1-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 


Nothing like stereotyping huh?

How's the crime rate in your little piece of utopia?

Whens the last time a teacher in america went haywire and killed a classroom full of kids? Yea, didn't think so. Way to try to demonize a gun owner though.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 



I don't think communities across the board can afford a full time resource officer in every single elementary and middle school.


If the fed REALLY wants to do something about gun violence rather than just ban weapons and attack the 2nd then the money should be made available to the states to provide these officers.




I am not advocating giving every teacher a gun. I am saying that interviews should be held for existing staff members to identify who is not only willing but capable both mentally and physically of performing the job of being armed and prepared. Once that individual or individuals were identified, they would receive the proper training needed and be given an appropriate pay raise in line with the increased responsibility.


I could tell you several stories about accidental discharges, dangerous conduct, spray and pray incidents and other dangerous activities with guns that I witnessed in the Marine Corps. These incidents involved highly trained killers well versed in weapons and tactics!! The notion that the average teacher is going to receive even a small fraction of the training these men had is wishful thinking.

I see where you’re coming from, and I was initially in agreement with armed teachers. The more I consider it the more concerned I become about the safety of my children.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I fully understand your points and they are valid to say the least.

There are cops that have served 30 years and never fired the weapon "on duty". The weapon in a majority of cases acts as a deterrent. Why would that be any different with a trained teacher?

I had several cops, dogs, and metal detectors in my school as a kid. I'd rather my kids have armed teachers


When I get rid of all emotion and argue myself down to the "bare bones" of a situation like Sandy Hook, I'd want my children to have an armed teacher rather than prayers to protect them.

ETA - I too have a tendency to apply my military experiences to the civilian world. As soldiers we carry our weapons for offensive reasions (much like police really), teachers would be carrying for defensive reasons. It's apples and oranges in my opinion. Soldiers are shooters first and everything else second, civilians are everything else first and shooters as a last resort. But again, that is only my opinion.
edit on 30-1-2013 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by 200Plus
 


When it comes down to it, I’d rather have someone in the school armed, be it a teacher or cop. I have a preference but at least someone will be there to respond instantly rather than waiting for 911 response. I just hope there is no collateral damage (friendly fire incidents).

Disarming the American people certainly isn’t going to prevent more killing.




posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by seabag
 


We all hope there is never a "friendly fire" event in any situation.

I would agree that a trained officer should be the primary in an event. I just know that one or two people cannot be everywhere at once.

I do not have the answers to fix the problem we face as a nation. I'm not sure anyone really has the answers. I just want the kids to have a fighting chance at survival if/when this ever happens again. I doubt anyone wants less than that.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Helious
 


South Dakota isn't really known for being a bastion of intelligence.

I'm not surprised, and won't be surprised when North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, and Utah follow suit.

And then are we supposed to be surprised when the first teacher loses their cool and pulls their gun on a student???


Youre just an anti-gun nut. Practically all your threads as of late have been started just to give youself a soapbox to deliver a snarling hellhound rant against firearms.

And take it from a South Dakotan.. You're hardly one to define smart.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by Juggernog
If you had some of the teachers that I had in school, youd see that this isnt a good idea.
They just need to do like my kids schools do, put a cop in the school, thats all thats needed.


Because cops have never used there guns inappropriately?



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by Juggernog
If you had some of the teachers that I had in school, youd see that this isnt a good idea.
They just need to do like my kids schools do, put a cop in the school, thats all thats needed.


Because cops have never used there guns inappropriately?


Hey, Im no huge fan of cops and I am definitely pro gun but the cops in my city are actually pretty cool and in the 12 years that ive lived here and im sure for many years before that, there has never been a problem at the schools.

I hated every staff member I met at my daughters school but one day I had to talk to the cop at the middle school, because my daughter was having issues with another girl and it turned out that he was the only person there that I actually liked.
I would trust them over armed teachers, any day.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Juggernog

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by Juggernog
If you had some of the teachers that I had in school, youd see that this isnt a good idea.
They just need to do like my kids schools do, put a cop in the school, thats all thats needed.


Because cops have never used there guns inappropriately?


Hey, Im no huge fan of cops and I am definitely pro gun but the cops in my city are actually pretty cool and in the 12 years that ive lived here and im sure for many years before that, there has never been a problem at the schools.

I hated every staff member I met at my daughters school but one day I had to talk to the cop at the middle school, because my daughter was having issues with another girl and it turned out that he was the only person there that I actually liked.
I would trust them over armed teachers, any day.


I agree with you, I also believe that there are good and bad cops just as there are good and bad teachers. I think the importance is in understanding and identifying the right kind of person who should have a gun in a school and if they possess the character to do so and not so much if they wear a uniform or not.

I also do not know what kind of impact a full time officer would have on children that young. To me, it seems like conditioning them at a young age to be fearful of something or to be used to authority protecting them constantly from the outside world. There are ramifications of any choice and none of the them should be taken lightly or for granted I simply wanted to illustrate the point that teachers and cops are made up of the same people, they just wear different clothes.

I'm sure some of the best soldiers, some of the most brave that fought in world ward II were bakers, shoe makers and yes, probably teachers.



posted on Jan, 30 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Juggernog

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by Juggernog
If you had some of the teachers that I had in school, youd see that this isnt a good idea.
They just need to do like my kids schools do, put a cop in the school, thats all thats needed.


Because cops have never used there guns inappropriately?


Hey, Im no huge fan of cops and I am definitely pro gun but the cops in my city are actually pretty cool and in the 12 years that ive lived here and im sure for many years before that, there has never been a problem at the schools.

I hated every staff member I met at my daughters school but one day I had to talk to the cop at the middle school, because my daughter was having issues with another girl and it turned out that he was the only person there that I actually liked.
I would trust them over armed teachers, any day.


Same here. I live in a community well off enough where we have a police officer stationed at the elementary, middle, and high school at all times and I feel very secure with them having firearms around the children. The children also get taught the very good lesson that guns keep you safe from bad guys.

The officer that is stationed at the middle school also has his child attending there. I'm thinking that pretty much any bad guy would get his switch flipped to the off position within a couple of feet of the entrance.

And being South Dakota a number of the teachers are hunters so they are no strangers to handling a firearm females included.



posted on Jan, 31 2013 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by Juggernog
If you had some of the teachers that I had in school, youd see that this isnt a good idea.
They just need to do like my kids schools do, put a cop in the school, thats all thats needed.


Columbine had armed resource officers. The problem is that a would be attacker will know where those officers are and either do as those kids did and lock them out of the building, or make sure that officer is their first target.

I think this is a great idea. If a teachers has a CCP, and volunteers to undergo classes and carry their weapon at school then that would be a serious deterrent to those who might think to do something like that.





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