Australian Historian Uncovers English Crop Circles Circa 1945

reply to post by mikell


Are you seriously suggesting people get drunk and then decide to go create symmetrically perfect crop art that can sometimes be several hundred feet in size? Haha!

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by skalla

 

I don't know. That's a good question though, huh?

as a lover of mythology and mysteries etc, i have often mused on the whole wiltshire crop circle thing, and i'll share some of my own views/ideas etc..

firstly, i am sceptical that aliens made them (in the conventional sense that is put across by many) - i dont really consider this a serious proposal any more, respectfully and IMO

i think the human explanation is overall a good and rational one. there are a lot of eccentric and artistic folk in the uk (we aint all suits and tie types) and the clear artistic development and locality of the art helps to support this. (wait for me to go on before you disagree, please)

i dont personally feel that witness testimony is worth all that much. beit "doug and dave" saying they did it; some farmer going "it appeared over an hour when i was out in my tractor" (british farmers and tall tales are synonymous); or someone claiming to see an orb do it.

there was also a very interesting thread here a few months back....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
that sadly somewhat died, some of the sources were not great, but it did make me think about the possibility of CCs or some CCs being an expression of earth energy/natural law/phenomena in some way, like the patterns on a snow flake for example.

however, i do have my own theory, which i'm not sure i have ever posted anywhere, so "copyright" to me
anyways... what about there being somekind of "mystery cult" or group, people trying to bring about an awakening of some kind, a spiritual epiphany etc and this is the reason for the fairly deep and meaningful subject matter of some of them - after all many require some research or detailed thought to divine possible meanings. this is the brief version ofc, i'm at work and have spent ages on ats over the last few days

what do you make of this possibility?

reply to post by draknoir2


What I refer to is the fact that you haven't addressed any of the points of the thread. Namely circles created in the 1940s. Pre Doug and Dave. Who, if you will remember, were credited with the "invention" of the entire phenomenon. Instead you take a sniping approach and try and "rib" your way at other posters.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by mikell

 

Are you seriously suggesting people get drunk and then decide to go create symmetrically perfect crop art that can sometimes be several hundred feet in size? Haha!

to be fair, there are folk all over rural england who could drink all afternoon and it makes no noticable difference

just sayin!

reply to post by skalla


Well, to be perfectly honest, I think ET is doing a lot of these. I would also entertain the global consciousness theories and the inter dimensional theories.
Although many crop formations are in fact made by humans, I simply cannot attribute a phenomenon that has been happening for hundreds of years to vandals, drunks or cultists WITHOUT seeing it happen in similar fashion in other places around the world. Sorta like how lots of ancient cultures built pyramids independent of each other... if crop art is something people just take a fancy to creating, it wouldn't be just the English doing it.

All that being said, crop glyphs ARE found elsewhere. But NOTHING like the numbers over there. Something like 85% are found within a short drive of Stonehenge. That is staggering.

reply to post by JayinAR


well the "mystery cult" (a crude phrase and not so descriptive but the best i could come up with) could be a localised thing, thats kinda my point - i'm not saying it's the answer, but i think it's as good as the rest and better than some.. and it's worth noting that the stonehenge avebury area does attract mystically mided folk - visit salisbury or wiltshire and it's plain as day

also it's more rational than the alien explanation - ofc believing that CC's are not made by aliens has no bearing whatsoever on my feelings about life elsewhere in the universe.

it been an interesting discussion, thx dude

and if i ever get on google earth and find more about the OP i'll post it, and try to remember to u2u you as i know you are an enthusiast

reply to post by skalla


Sounds good, man.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by greyer

 

I disagree with your premise. Anything that isn't a simple circle is obviously a hoax? I think that as people started paying closer attention to the circles, the makers started making them more elaborate. For instance, the first glyph to have circles connected my a line was way back in the 40s, if I remember correctly. And there was absolutely ZERO reason for anyone to hoax this as all of the locals were well aware of this phenomenon and simply dismissed them all as whirlwind winds. Or what they called "devil's twists". This is a very real thing. And yes, people have gotten in on the fun nowadays as well, but it really is a case of life imitating art.

This paragraph is actually why the public pays attention to the circles, because there is a trend going around based on what people are telling each other. It is not real information, it is disinformation, a very popular thing in this field. A physical landing trace yes, but there is no such thing as a design created by aliens unless it is their own language and the language looks like skinny lines creating odd shapes, but not like a design you would see on a T-shirt.

Zero reason? Some people are liars. That is a not just a good reason but a great reason. I don't know why they lie, maybe they love to lie, maybe they love to hate I don't know. But it is an incredibly ignorant thing to say there are not a lot of liars in the world.

I've haven't heard of your whirldwind phenomena but it may be something more mysterious, it is not a design on the ground in a field.

reply to post by greyer


We should avoid making absolute proclamations such as "this is what the alien language looks like" or "anything beyond a simple circle is an obvious hoax" when we have no way of knowing ANY of that. It is ironic that you spoke of disinformation in the same post. Haha

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by draknoir2

 

What I refer to is the fact that you haven't addressed any of the points of the thread. Namely circles created in the 1940s. Pre Doug and Dave. Who, if you will remember, were credited with the "invention" of the entire phenomenon. Instead you take a sniping approach and try and "rib" your way at other posters.

I reread your post and I owe you an apology. Was doing two things at once and didn't give it my full attention - reacted to what I thought you were getting at instead of what you actually said.

But at the same time, I never mentioned "Doug and Dave", nor did I say that all crop circles were hoaxes. My position is that the more complex and contemporary the circle, the more likely it is to be a "work of art". I understand crop circles have been appearing for centuries, and am willing to attribute them to one of three likely causes: natural phenomena, animals, and humans. I am not willing to put much credence in speculation of alien intervention, which has a laundry list of assumptions and leaps of faith required just to qualify as a possible cause, and that's before even getting into such things as motives.

What I was bristling at was my [erroneous] assumption that you were using the "science" of BLT to explain how "genuine" crop circles were distinguished by undamaged plants. Fact is you never actually mentioned BLT or any of their specific contentions in that area, which is to your credit.

reply to post by draknoir2


Well I appreciate the apology.

And yes, the "natural" phenomena explanation seems most likely of them all when you consider that people have been witness to their formation on a number of occasions. One person was even lucky enough to witness two formations appear on two separate occasions. Each time the person attributes them to cyclonic winds. But my question is, why only in that specific location in England? Why not the Great Plains of the US? We have vast, vast expanses of farmland with seasonal Mega storms, yet no crop circles...

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by greyer

 

We should avoid making absolute proclamations such as "this is what the alien language looks like" or "anything beyond a simple circle is an obvious hoax" when we have no way of knowing ANY of that. It is ironic that you spoke of disinformation in the same post. Haha

Not ironic as it is a hidden truth of this subject, you may have meant hypocritical.

Telling everyone not to believe in crop circles has nothing to do with disinformation because the purpose of disinformation to convince and misdirect, rarely does disinformation say to reject something. Blue book was disinforming the public yes, but they were telling obvious outright lies and keeping secret truths. Saying it is swamp gas is asking you to believe in an explaination, being a skeptic is just denying what people say.

If I mention alien language it would be heading in the direction of creative writing, but the point was that crop circles are UFO landings and not designs as one would think, the hoaxers have been exposed but that doesn't mean a UFO hasn't ever landed in a crop field.

HI folks I'm the Tasmanian historian who did the 1945 Google overlay work I've been reading the comment thread and would like to say first that I do not have a book coming out (though movie offers would be considered).
Unlike me, the work is serious and is part of an overall project on historic crop circles. You should note that the first scientific description of a crop circle was published in Nature in 1880 and the first photo was taken in 1932 (not an ack ack installation). The late, famous, astronomer Sir Patrick Moore described a crop circle cluster in detail in 1963. If you are seriously interested in the Google 1945 crop circles just Google 1945 crop circles and my name Greg Jefferys, and you will find my website which contains several papers I've wriiten. I am trying to do good scholarly work here and not ascribing attributes or cuasitive agencies to the crop circles, just reporting on the historic record. There is no doubt that crop circles have been well documented since the 1880's and probably much earlier. The Mowing Devil pamphlet probably being the earliest example presently known. The BIG hoax is the hoaxers claim that they made them all. Also check out the Old Crop Circles or, if you can get a copy, Terry Wilson's book "The Secret History of Crop Circles"