Australian Historian Uncovers English Crop Circles Circa 1945

First time I came across a crop circle was in the summer of 76 close by to Meon hill in Warwickshire. Nothing fancy at all, not designs, just a large perfectly circle of wheat laid flat. If you wanted people to notice it, it was in the last place you'd make one, as it was only me and couple of friends who saw it, purely by chance.

Yes, the vast majority are constructed by "circle makers", the fact is though, there is still no scientific understanding of what actually forms those "genuine" circles.

I would remind people that the link between crop circles and UFOs stems wholly from the following incident.

Tully "Saucer nest"

The circle I was witness to was almost identical to that shown in the photo in the link. It's hardly surprising that some made the link on seeing that photo and the genuine circles from England in the late 60s and early to mid 70s. Doesn't make the idea that the English one;'s are actually linked to UFOs right at all however, given the only people who took any interest in the science behind the circles were Ufologists, yet again, main stream science was left behind and allowed every nutter in, by being its' typically blinkered self.

hokay, have d/l'd a much updated version of google earth further to previous posts, and it totally borks my old pc and wont run, maybe i will try it on someone else's pc when i get a chance..


i love that despite all the info given in this thread, and all the people supposedly interested in this subject, no one else has read through the thread and tried to investigate these and report back which would potentially take minutes.

way to go the great minds at ATS

reply to post by skalla


I use my phone for ATS. No Google Earth for me.

reply to post by skalla


But... if I am not mistaken, one of those "circles" wasn't a circle at all. It was only a partial because it laid up against the field boundary. In my eyes that removes your ack ack explanation.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by skalla

 

But... if I am not mistaken, one of those "circles" wasn't a circle at all. It was only a partial because it laid up against the field boundary. In my eyes that removes your ack ack explanation.

edit on 29-1-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)

it's the "sliced orange" one that may be the ack-ack emplacement - like i mentioned earlier i know the place that i suspect its at, i parked my car on the opposite hill at least twice a week for some 8 years, the trees are not very high and it's a hill at the edge of a valley. could easily be an ack-ack emplacemnt and i'm just trying to verify/eliminate that theory

Originally posted by JayinAR
I am glad to see this thread. Not that it will do much good, though. Skeptical people will simply say that the hoaxerswere doing it back then as well. And they will ignore any evidence to the contrary. Crop circles are smoking gun type evidence of aliens, in my humble opinion. The arecibo reply glyph seals the deal for me. I have outlined why in the thread I will link below. www.abovetopsecret.com...

I beg your pardon, "skeptics will ignore evidence to the contrary"?

Being a hardcore UFO enthusiast for almost 2 decades now, I have devoured every piece of "evidence" suggesting crop circles are not made by men. Not ONE of those lines of inquiry have ever panned out. If you truly, honestly examine the sources for the exotic claims, like BLT Research (infamously bad research - they didn't even use controls!), you'll ultimately find, as I did, that the evidence for a non-human origin anounts to some cool designs and wishful thinking.

On the other side, there is a large body of evidence - proof, even - that 1) while circles in crops have been made for centuries, the popularly known "crop circles", involving complex designs, started in the 70s from two British men. And 2) there has been a steady increase in complexity since the 70s. Why would that be? Seriously, I've never heard a believer answer that one. And 3), since you know that humans invented the artform, why would aliens just copy us, coincidentally using the same anonymous signature?

The reality of this phenomenon is quite easy to see. Just be honest with yourself.

reply to post by Son of Will


You "know" that humans invented the art form? That's funny. From where I sit, the entire thing is enigmatic. And as I said before, I will not presume to know the motives of the makers. I cannot answer why complexity seems to increase because I do not know why they appear in the first place.

You should read through the cases on the site I posted earlier. Back in the 40s, and even before, there were enough cases of this happening as to establish the phenomenon as a regular occurrence even back then. The fact that all the local farmers in the area knew well enough about it to write it all off as common meteorological occurrence establishes this. They called them "Devil's Twists". Some cases even report people being witness to their formation. They describe whirlwinds creating them. So, with that in mind, what then becomes the motive of a hoax?Nobody was coming to view them. They were just regarded as a minor nuisance! Complex designs? The first glyph to show complexity was from back in the 40s as well. Three large circles joined by a curved small line.

I don't see whirlwinds as a rational explanation for this. And in any event, the Doug and Dave explanation is effectively blown out of the water. This has been happening for a long, long time.

www.greatdreams.com... ... This site is a good place to look at the different research in CC anomalies.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Son of Will

 

You "know" that humans invented the art form? That's funny. From where I sit, the entire thing is enigmatic. And as I said before, I will not presume to know the motives of the makers. I cannot answer why complexity seems to increase because I do not know why they appear in the first place.

Perhaps it's a by-product of the natural progression from string, board and rope to AutoCad, laser, and GPS.

And where are you sitting? Apparently elsewhere when the "artists" are vandalizing the farmers' fields.

reply to post by draknoir2


GPS? You must mean hand held GPS units like made by companies like Garmin and Magellan, right? GPS units with accuracy of 25' +/-, right?

Sure, that can explain some circles. But not nearly all. The well known MilkHill formation would be an example of a formation that cannot be simply brushed aside by saying "but people have GPS, man"... Not unless you are suggesting hoaxers are spending thousands of dollars on surveying grade GPS units with millimeter precision.

ETA: Furthermore, in "genuine" circles, the crop isn't vandalised. It isn't harmed at all, in fact.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by draknoir2

 

GPS? You must mean hand held GPS units like made by companies like Garmin and Magellan, right? GPS units with accuracy of 25' +/-, right?

Sure, that can explain some circles. But not nearly all. The well known MilkHill formation would be an example of a formation that cannot be simply brushed aside by saying "but people have GPS, man"... Not unless you are suggesting hoaxers are spending thousands of dollars on surveying grade GPS units with millimeter precision.

ETA: Furthermore, in "genuine" circles, the crop isn't vandalised. It isn't harmed at all, in fact.

edit on 31-1-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)

If you're definition of "genuine circles" is based upon the "science" of the Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato research team, then your definition is flawed.

How about a question for the skeptics? If these things are so easy to make, and make so much money, why aren't we seeing these designs appear in, say, France? The US? Sure, they find circles in other countries occasionally, but nothing like in England? Wonder why that is? I mean apparently "corporations hire people to do it cuz it makes Money"... (of course everyone knows when people see the Mayan glyph for Quetzalcoatl's Head dress the immediate impulse is to run out and buy Nike shoes).

Originally posted by JayinAR
How about a question for the skeptics? If these things are so easy to make, and make so much money, why aren't we seeing these designs appear in, say, France? The US? Sure, they find circles in other countries occasionally, but nothing like in England? Wonder why that is? I mean apparently "corporations hire people to do it cuz it makes Money"... (of course everyone knows when people see the Mayan glyph for Quetzalcoatl's Head dress the immediate impulse is to run out and buy Nike shoes).

firefoxcropcircle.com...

The Aliens don't even like IE.

reply to post by JayinAR


hi jay, your post was not really aimed at me (IMO), but i am an intersted party. i'd like to ask your opinion or thoughts as to why these features are clearly so prevelant in england. i mean, i'm british and love the place, but what's so special about england, and wiltshire in particular that leads to this phenomena?

Originally posted by JayinAR
How about a question for the skeptics? If these things are so easy to make, and make so much money, why aren't we seeing these designs appear in, say, France? The US? Sure, they find circles in other countries occasionally, but nothing like in England? Wonder why that is? I mean apparently "corporations hire people to do it cuz it makes Money"... (of course everyone knows when people see the Mayan glyph for Quetzalcoatl's Head dress the immediate impulse is to run out and buy Nike shoes).

reply to post by draknoir2


You can't be serious. A link to a bunch of mowed designs in fields?

Ever heard of the term slippery slope fallacy? Example: Hitler was Christian. Therefore all Christians are nazis. NOBODY is claiming that people don't make some circles. But the fact remains that they are found in the hundreds. The majority are never claimed.
The point of my question remains. If corporations have found CCs to be a money maker, why don't we see the phenomenon elsewhere? Pseudo-debunking at its finest in action with the CC debate. Every time.
Mean, you said yourself this is vandalism. Its been happening for hundreds of years. Care to link me to what must be dozens of arrest reports?

reply to post by skalla


I don't know. That's a good question though, huh?

reply to post by skalla


Lots of pubs within walkind distance to the fields.

Why none till after the tractors spray the fields???

Michigan has them in the UP because they were anti aircraft missle placements during the cold war. can see them from spacr their so big

reply to post by draknoir2


sorry dude, but i'm not an "alien"-ist and even i think that those were sh1te - not even vaguely comparable - can you find some that are not both green and super tacky? please

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by draknoir2

 

You can't be serious. A link to a bunch of mowed designs in fields?

Ever heard of the term slippery slope fallacy? Example: Hitler was Christian. Therefore all Christians are nazis. NOBODY is claiming that people don't make some circles. But the fact remains that they are found in the hundreds. The majority are never claimed.
The point of my question remains. If corporations have found CCs to be a money maker, why don't we see the phenomenon elsewhere? Pseudo-debunking at its finest in action with the CC debate. Every time.
Mean, you said yourself this is vandalism. Its been happening for hundreds of years. Care to link me to what must be dozens of arrest reports?

Pseudo debunking? How is a corn maze any different from nocturnally stomped patterns with regards to scale and complexity? And what about the Firefox crop circle, produced under the same conditions and time constraints as any of the most "controversial" crop formations? I'll put "Can be produced by humans, therefore humans" up against "I didn't see it produced, therefore aliens" any day of the week.

Would you accept debunking from a prominent figure within the crop circle community?

www.colinandrews.net...

BLT pushes crap science, and the croppies eat it up because it's what they want to believe.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by draknoir2

 

sorry dude, but i'm not an "alien"-ist and even i think that those were sh1te - not even vaguely comparable - can you find some that are not both green and super tacky? please

No problem, "dude".