Hamas expresses regret for 5 U.S deaths

These bastages called Hamas are running scared. They aren't sorry they killed Americans, they are sorry they didn't kill more!!!
The only reason this "person" said this is because he doesn't want to wake up in the middle of the night, with "men in black" wearing balaclava's standing over his bed and a red dot illuminated on his forehead...

BTW, Saphronia, you seem like an intelligent person, but go for a drive in the real world sometime...

LOL! Yup, an ally is well and back at the board!!

Saphie, so you are saying that state ownership of utilities and property is the correct thing?

You do understand that their is a major difference between the U.S. and the IMF and World Bank, don't you?

Let's, rather than go point by point, cut to the chase. What you advocate is a Soviet style socialism where the government runs everything, right? It really sounds as if the free market system is what you are sore about.

no i am not!! i believe in democracy, when it's practiced it works for the people not against. capitalism-now that's a bird of a different feather, it's been good to me but has killed many including our countrymen and women.

what the IMF, World Bank are doing is not free trade, my friends. this is wholesale rape of the people. a few very rich corporations are running the worlds resources through these actions. you're trying to tire me.

ok, i will only answer direct questions...no i'm not a communist-no i don't believe that governments should run these agencies...but i don't believe they should be turned over to american big business to the detriment of the people that the agencies serve. not only does it create uprisings and "terrorist", it also creates poverty--jobs are cut due to these privitizations. if these measures were being taken to help the economies in the 3rd world-then they would have been sold to businesses/men inside of the struggling nation...there is no way a economy is boosted toward recovery by money being taken from the government of that nation and given to a corporation in the west. the countries loose money and loose industry, resources, and jobs and the corporations don't put any money back into the communities or the economy as a whole. it's rape. and all the while, americans are loosing right along side of the 3rd world population...because as these corporations rape the 3rd world they leave the US, managing to evade taxes by moving headquaters. very patriotic, bet they aren't. the process has went from a jog to a sprint in the last few years.

ah well, i'm sure you have more insults and the like to hurl at me so i'll leave you to it.

My son is badgering me for the computer, so I skimmed your posting, Saphie. I know that is dangerous, so if I misunderstand, forgive me.
I understand that you find the IMF and the World Bank to be the scourge of the universe and the torment, not only of the tax-paying citizens of the U.S. but of all the people of the world.

There's hope for you yet, Grasshopper. You make the sounds of a wise one, yet there is much, yet, for you to learn. Open your mind to my wisdom, and with what you bring with you already, you may yet take the pebble from my hand and need me know more.

ok TC, do you agree that the IMF and World Trade Organization, and World Bank are handing the world's resources over to corporations? and i'm not one to shout C-O-N-spiracy, but it's as you told me in the other thread if it looks like, sounds like, walks like, it prolly is.

what does any of this have to do with this thread???...it's the real reason the people (the masses of the people of the world are poor people effected by these policies) hate the United States. we can laugh it off as "oh their talking about the great satan again" or we can really examine what our govenment and the policies it supports are doing to the people. no one just hates for hate sake. back to my original point...nobody liked Rome save the Romans and it eventually lead to them to their downfall.

There are millions of poor people in the U.S. They are not killing innocent people.In my opinion Hamas is conditioning people to hate.As well as Arafat.It has little to do with money.In Hamases end game there is no money,just the annilation of the Jews.Its nothing more than pure hate.

Sleight of hand. Hate America, while the real deal is elsewhere.

No, you misunderstand what I say. I do not mean that the IMF or the World Bank places the world's resources into the hands of the corporations. But, where should the resources be, by the way?

The pebble will be in my hand for yet a while longer.



[Edited on 11-8-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

keep your dirty ole rock...i didn't want it anyways. well kinda.

i already answered this question TC, how is it helping the struggling economies to have all their life "blood" handed out to western based companies? it only makes the problem bigger and of course the rich richer/poor poorer. i get so tired...i guess it shouldn't matter to us...most of us have access to clean water 24 hours a day...unlike the folk in Bolivia whose situation went from bad to worse due to forced privitization (seems they hate the US too). but, even with the failure of that experiment-the Washington Consensus has picked up the pace. just wonder how long we are going to ignore the evil that our "leaders" do in our name.

You speak in riddles.

You talk about the "evils that our leaders do in our names". Would you rather live in Iraq? Then you could THINK about complaining about Saddam, (not that you'd be able to). At least here we have free speach, and are able to vote. Do you vote, BTW? Are you old enough? If you don't vote, but are of legal age, I don't think you have any right to complain.

Have you ever lived in a Third World country? Have you seen, firsthand, how they live? What they eat, out of neccessity? (I'm not talking about watching the news, the talking heads show you what they want you to see).

Wake up, girlie. I don't know you, nor you me, but take a walk on the wild side sometime. See how the "other half" lives. I've BTDT...

Heckler and Koch; The original point and click interface...

first to your questions:

yes, i am of legal voting age (27)
yes, i do vote
yes, i have been to the third world(several trips to Mexico and a few to Africa when my pops was a boxer)
no, i don't rely on news from the idoit box to shape my views of the world.

as for the rest, no i wouldn't rather live anywhere else, "the grass aint greener on the other genocide". but, with all that said i don't subscribe to the notion that since i'm doing well, all is well. that is an ignorant, arrogant stance to take. i consider myself well read, and educated. (yes, and quite vain.) i rather form my views on reality not on my perception of the immediate world around me, and i still find room to be open minded.

i don't speak in riddles but since it isn't clear to you: i mean, our government, the government of the United States of America, treats humanity like lines and statistics, but these are thinking, feeling, and reactionary peoples. so, if we are going to allow them to keep pushing we shouldn't expect folk not to push back.

Bull crap.
If it is an evil action, you think we are behind it. If there is an evil entity in this world, you think we are it.

Several years ago, while in Germany, I picked up a couple of hitchikers (being the evil American that I am). They asked my where I was stationed, and I told them. They responded by saying that they had been there the week before (Easter), to protest what we had at the particular place. I asked them why they didn't go to Russia and protest them as we were there mainly to keep them from having to learn Russian and how to stand in long lines, and there response was that they (the Soviets) would kill them if they tried to.

Same line of logic, that you slam the U.S. yet benefit from its existence.

You seem to be very good at talking about what evils you percieve to be done by us in other countries (some of your ideas are simply wrong, and some things done in other places are clearly work in progress), but you fail to ever mention the large amounts of good that we have done for other nations, for many struggling countries. And you fail to take note of the many nations that blame us for their woes when it is their ignorance that cause them to starve or their resources to dwindle, and would have been even worse off without us.

Somalia comes to mind when I think of us being stupid enough to help those who don't help themselves.

How many times have we helped but bungled? Take the Vietnamese. We figured that the Vietnamese farmer would be much more efficient with tractors, so what did we do? We sent over tractors! There they were, topped off with gfuel, all the farmer had to do was come and pick one up. And they did! All these little guys went down the road on their brand new American tractor. Next thing you know, though, was that these tractors were left in the middle of the rice fields and the farmers were back to their water buffalo. Why? Because, Uncle Sam, you, know, the one I say can't ever be a real threat to us because he is so incompetent, didn't take into consideration that there weren't BP stations at every rice paddy for the farmer to get more fuel. Once again, nice thought, but wasted money by an incompetent bunch of baffoons. This was in the '60's, but they ain't no better now.

Point of it all is, the U.S. government isn't the evil-doer of the world. Usually, it is incompetent, alot of times it does things because it is the humanitarian thing to do (we are the government, after all, and there aren't any bigger hearts anywhere), and sometimes it does what it does because it is in the best interest of us. That's what its suppose to do. But it isn't out there trying to destroy others. As a matter of fact, many of the things you said we did that were supposed to be bad will eventually work out for the betterment of the nations.

And while I'm at it, some folks hate us for no other reason than that they hate what we stand for.

We have freedoms and liberties, we have a free market system where anyone can excel if he wants to give it a shot, and we have industry that keeps 95% of us working. And a good portion of those that don't work make that choice not to.

We chose our leaders, and if we don't like the clowns in office, why, we simply haul off and vote them out and bring in a fresh batch of morons. No coups, no revolutions, just the lazy way of doing it.

Just as others peddle their goods here, we peddle our goods abroad. To many, our products/goods/services do nothing but remind them that we exist. No, we don't simply exist, we thrive and succeed. While they oppress their people, we get along quite nicely, thank you, and our success puts money into our politicians coffers, so those slime-bags are happy as well.
The others villafy us, blame their woes on us and make us out to be the bad guys. As long as their people buy the bullcrap that you even buy, and as long as they burn our flag in the streets, they aren't out attempting to burn the hides of their inept leaders. It isn't always something that we or our government did, just the mere fact that we are successful has been enough.

Which reminds me of that old saying "Why is that person mad at me? What did I ever do for him?"

oh my, TC it doesn't take two post to tell me you disagree. i'm well aware of the fact that you don't agree with me--and the reasoning behind it. sure, folk hate freedom. they do, they actually hate freedom. i mean seriously, come on. they don't hate freedom and liberty, they hate americans and some of the reasons while you choose to ignore them, are quite valid.

should i only address the good and never the bad? there is no good to tell when you are talking about hatred. it would be so easy for me to say, "well, they should do this, or they should do that...or we are only trying to help." i wish that those statements were true. but, in most cases it's not help we are offering but exploitation and in those cases we find the hatred. if our government went in only wanting to offer help, why is the situation worse and not better? why does this only take place in places where the resources are rich and the majority of the people are poor and ill or under educated? why does the solution we offer always mean give into privitization? why is it always to the same people--same corporations?

you ask me to see the good, i'll try. but, i'm asking you to see that we are not always good and people don't always hate just to hate...sometimes they have a valid reason and those are the things we need to change about our nation and it's policies. i could go on forever but it's futile, a big ole waste of time.

Privatezation, or the ownership by the people and not the government, is usually a good thing. Private ownership usually means more efficient mangement and operation, since governments are incompetent and themselves managed by dolts. Private ownership means that folks are trying to turn a profit, and that is increased by proper stewardship. Government ownership and government management, quite often means oppression. That doesn't mean distatorship is exclusively bad (Solomon's rule was such, but he was the wisest man, so that makes it better) and that corporstions are necessarily good (I was ready to overthrow Bill Gates using violence - horrible, painful and bloody violence - after '98 and ME, but XP has kinda soothed me into dumb complacency again.), but there seems to be a better chance with privatization.

I'd still like to punch Bill in the nose, though. But you already knew that, as I am a violent white male!

civillian casualties in Afghanistan 3000 and rising.

news.bbc.co.uk...

sort of puts 5 americans into perspective.
do we go after Hamas now and carpet bomb a couple of other villages?

one wonders when deaths due to the retaliation for the murder of innocents begin to exceed the number of innocents who died in the initial attack who exactly are the terrorists.

That's a good question, Lupe. In our case, we aren't retaliating, we are trying to eradicate the threat.
Israel's way has been to retaliate, a sort of tit for tat dilemma that has not worked very well since it has gone on for a while.
Let's see what this agreement brings; maybe they're all getting tired!

Saphronia, you said

they don't hate freedom and liberty, they hate americans and some of the reasons while you choose to ignore them, are quite valid

They have valid reasons to hate me because I am an American? I was born here, and didnt really have much choice in the matter. I work my ass off almost everyday to provide a decent life for me and my family. The alternative is to eat out of garbage cans.

I have never killed, harmed or caused pain in any way shape or form to any person or people anywhere in the world. (Not including a little mischieviousness when I was a youngster )

And your telling me, that there are people on this planet, in other countries, that have a right and are justified in hating me, because I am an American?

Why? Because I dont go kill a politician and spend the rest of my life as Bruno the Axe Murderers bitch on cell block D?

How would these people even know whether or not I support my government? I do, but the point is, how would they know?

And they are justified in hating me, because I am an American?

Im sorry, but that is no different in me saying I hate you just because you are black. Its a form of racism. And its wrong. No one is justified in hating and wanting to kill me, my family, or millions of other Americans just because we were born here. Yes, we dont violently fight the system for the most part. We just try to survive, make a comfortable living, and try and enjoy as much of life as we can.

If you said, they were justified for hating American politicians, or the government, thats one thing. But to say that there are blood thirsty murderers on this planet who are justified in hating me because I am an American is just stupid blind ignorance on your part. Sorry for the rant, but that statement has had me a little bit hot under the collar the last day or two.

i understand your frustration and the rant was quite entertaining so all is well...just so you know, the statment i made was not to condone anyone's hate of a people for any reason. still, we don't have ill feelings toward the Europeans for 9-11, we have those ill feelings toward middle eastern terrorist (not justifying that either). just as those in the third world have ill feelings toward americans...it's not Russian based companies over charging them for something as essential to life as water...it's americans. so while i share your frustation, i also understand where their hatred is coming from and why it is necessary to stop these practices.

yes TC, privitization can be a wonderful thing...but only when it is done in a way that benefits the people that are so called being freed from governmental monopolies as i have said three times now (not to mention siting cases), they are not doing it in that way.

Why would have ill feelings toward the Europeans,they didn't blow us up.And you have quite a double standerd going on here.I'ts ok for someone to hate us but if we get mad at someone it's wrong.

I am happy to entertain you, however, I feel compelled to call you a hypocrite. According to your logic, if I hate you, and kill one of your family members, it is perfectly acceptable for me to hate you, but it is not acceptable for you or anyone in your family to feel or express any anymosity towards me, because I believe I am justified in my actions.

Your argument is a joke. I suspect beneath the sweet facade you portray, there is an angry, seething hate-filled human being.