Logical proof of the existence of God

reply to post by wdkirk


Along came Jahbulon.... saving the dinosaurs would've messed up your plans, according to your signature...

Should we trust your logic on God?

Originally posted by VisitorQ
reply to post by wdkirk

 

I define "the Universe" as "All-that-is" which includes everything (including "other Universes" if that is so).

All-that-is cannot have any "end" because that would be a separation to something existing outside All-that-is which is absurd, since All-that-is is all that is...

Agree on this. We can put a bunch of balls in a box and call them multiverses, but they're all still in the same box containing all-that-is.

Originally posted by VisitorQ
reply to post by wdkirk

 

I think everyone is living in a bubble of their own making. It's called the Universe.

And it's not unreasonable to define All-that-is as including everything. How else would you define it?

I would define it as a space that wasn't created. If the universe is infinite, then there is no space outside of the universe for a god to exist in order to create the universe. If the universe is finite then what is the space beyond the universe?

reply to post by wdkirk


I don't necessarily believe in this logic. I put it out there as a "thought experiment" because I want people to drill holes in it. I want people to find flaws in the argumentation.

So far you have not really presented such flaws in a clear way. If you did that I would be grateful.

reply to post by jiggerj


Unless the Universe is the physical expression of God. Which is what this argument is about.

reply to post by Shema


Thanks. I am just interested in feedback. That's all. I don't mind some trolls and jokes.

reply to post by blahxd67


The potential for a peaceful world is there,but with free will there is also potential for evil. It's up to us to chose, not God.

reply to post by jiggerj


What if there isnt an outside because the fabric and nature of those elements that exist as parts of the finite universe operate in such a way that does not need to be an outside. And could black holes hold the key and in some way influence the universe so as to cause a continuous infolding of itself!

This could be a crock of something but its only one of many and which to say is the right one!

Oh and its a bunch of grapes not balls and that would be more appropriate because most folks balls are the size of grapes anyway. Not speaking personally mind!

The intention of this thread is feedback for the argument made in post one. I want people to find flaws in the argument and to tear it apart...

reply to post by VisitorQ


Done in triplicate+ i would think!!

Would help you to research the current thinking about our finite U.

Godless or Dogless. Im both.

Originally posted by RP2SticksOfDynamite
reply to post by VisitorQ

 

Done in triplicate+ i would think!!

Would help you to research the current thinking about our finite U.

Godless or Dogless. Im both.

Why don't you supply some links to the current thinking you keep referring to?

reply to post by VisitorQ


You not able to type a few words into a search engine. Do so you will find much reading

Originally posted by RP2SticksOfDynamite
reply to post by VisitorQ

 

You not able to type a few words into a search engine. Do so you will find much reading

You cannot come up with an example? If I search for it I will get millions of sites probably...

Originally posted by VisitorQ
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Unless the Universe is the physical expression of God. Which is what this argument is about.

We can't figure out how life first began in the material world. To imagine how an empty universe gained consciousness (if at all possible) is way WAY beyond us.

hmmm, you're very close to what I thought up. I better copyright it before someone actually comes up with it.

P.S. posting important proofs on this site is a bad idea. Anything you post becomes the property of ATS, meaning you will never get credit for it. Obviously nothing of importance has been proven on this site yet lol.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by VisitorQ

 

Even if we grant your 3 premises, it still does solve the problem of evil.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God.

Evil doesn't exist it's a rhetorical statement

reply to post by VisitorQ

Non-linear “all-at-once” update of the Universe must be caused by an omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal Intelligence, otherwise everything would be chaotic, static, random noise and not the orderly Universe we perceive.

I'm curious as to where you see order in the universe. From my view, the universe is the exact opposite of what you're telling me it is.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by VisitorQ

 

Non-linear “all-at-once” update of the Universe must be caused by an omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal Intelligence, otherwise everything would be chaotic, static, random noise and not the orderly Universe we perceive.

I'm curious as to where you see order in the universe. From my view, the universe is the exact opposite of what you're telling me it is.

As I said earlier in this thread:

By orderly I mean that the "frame" following the next makes sense.

To illustrate: The Universe is not updated so that when you see a bird flying suddenly it's ten meter behind where it was and suddenly a mile away or suddenly just a feather and then a bird again...

What? Why can't something exist outside the universe?? What about another universe?! Parallel universe theory?

How are we so sure we're the only big bang that's occurred?

Originally posted by peashooter
What? Why can't something exist outside the universe?? What about another universe?! Parallel universe theory?

How are we so sure we're the only big bang that's occurred?

I'm not even sure there ever was a Big Bang... that's a theory. As I said earlier: By Universe I mean All-that-is which includes all Universes. All-that-is includes all that is.