Freedom or Safety, Which Do You Choose?

reply to post by hadriana


Allowing freedom? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

Originally posted by LetsGoViking

Originally posted by eXia7
The terms of "Freedom" and "Security" are just words based on the illusion they are pushing. There shouldn't even be an argument about Freedom vs Security, the two can co-exist, It's just the fact that the federal government is forcing it's type of "Freedom" and "Security". They are far removed from the people's wishes and beliefs on those 2 words.

There is no Freedom vs Security, they both exist without corruption. [

I don't see your logic. Freedom and Security are words with definite meanings that translate across languages, limiting the ability of "They" to manipulate the meanings.

Please explain to me how freedom and security co-exist without corruption. I really don't follow you on this one..

edit on 17-1-2013 by LetsGoViking because: (no reason given)

Let me try to explain....

Start giving up freedoms and you are just transferring power to a small group. Power ALWAY enventually corrupts.

You are curtailing one weapon but creating a much more dangerous situation.

Think of this example, right now it's possible a sick/evil person can buy a gun and probably kill less than a 100 people before they are stopped - either killed by someone else with a gun or put in jail for life. However, start giving up your rights and they can now find their way into a government position. Not only do they STILL get to have a gun (because they need to protect you), they also get to limit other's rights to guns - plus they can find a way to do their evil acts under the guise of your safety.

Originally posted by lasvegasteddyso are you implying bankers and tptb deserve nothing less the the gallows

France as a whole was better after the revolution.

You might think of it as pruning. The bush is healthier afterwards. Take off the top, the rotted and diseased parts.

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by lasvegasteddyso are you implying bankers and tptb deserve nothing less the the gallows

France as a whole was better after the revolution.

You might think of it as pruning. The bush is healthier afterwards. Take off the top, the rotted and diseased parts.

My concern here is who decides the pruning? I have to confess here that I am not a fan of mob rule, which is basically what occurred during the early part of the French Revolution. It should also be noted, that France never regained its position as a world power following the revolution.

reply to post by Daughter2


The part that I didn't understand was the "freedom and security can coexist without corruption" part.
I've never seen a human endeavour that didn't devolve into some sort of corruption, unless he was meaning some sort of Utopian vision of government.

I choose freedom. I can use that freedom to provide my own security.

Let's be honest, no one lives forever and sooner or later, your number is going to come up...be it an auto accident, a random shooting, a plane crash, a terrorist attack...etc...etc...etc. You are never completely "safe and secure" so why give away your freedom for something that is impossible to have.

I want to be free to live my life and pursue my own sense of happiness and when my number comes up, I hope I can go out with dignity and grace and be thankful for the Liberty I enjoyed up to that time.

reply to post by ADVISOR


I was looking for that quote so as to not have to post it. Kudos.

That one is one of my favorites......

OP, I had a mother, thank you, I prefer the freedom to make mistakes and learn.

LIBERTY is fundamental to progress. I dont want to live in a country that is like 50 YO virgin living in his moms basement.

We need our headaches......it makes us grow.

Give a specific example, and then I will answer. Id generaly choose freedom, however in rare cases Id choose security, its not black and white.

Originally posted by LetsGoViking
It has become apparent by reading through the posts here, that people are divided on the issues of Freedom and Security. I am curious what people are really wanting and if they are aware of the cost of being free or the cost of being safe.

I assume a continuum starting with absolute freedom to act in manner one wishes, through to the other end where there is complete and utter safety and security for all members of the society. Where in this continuum do you want to live, are you living there now, and how would you propose we make a "perfect" society where freedom and security are comfortably balanced? Who determines what is free or safe in this society?

I think if we collectively and honestly think through these issues, and consider the other viewpoints that I'm sure will be presented, we will all stand to learn some very interesting things about ourselves and ATS culture.

Proceed with caution and remember to bring your big-kid's underpants....

The answer is simple: both. I am not any "safer" if I permit myself to be disarmed, thus, by doing so, I lose both freedom and safety.

Utopia is, by definition, unachievable and there is no perfect society.

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by lasvegasteddyso are you implying bankers and tptb deserve nothing less the the gallows

France as a whole was better after the revolution.

You might think of it as pruning. The bush is healthier afterwards. Take off the top, the rotted and diseased parts.

It was? After the great terror, where thousands upon thousands of innocent people were executed, you had the rise of the dictator.

reply to post by randyvs

if I'm not free, how can I possibly be safe ?

For those with weak eyes, (Just tryin to be helpfull)

IF___I'M___NOT___FREE___

HOW___CAN___I___POSSIBLY

BE___________SAFE ?_?_?

Patrick Henry said "Give me Liberty, or Give me death" That is freedom to me, our constitution of the United States. It is not to be infringed upon, and those who try are betraying their oath of office. Also, finally a post that has some intelligence to it, all of you are very well written and make perfect sense in your comments. Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by lasvegasteddyso are you implying bankers and tptb deserve nothing less the the gallows

France as a whole was better after the revolution.

You might think of it as pruning. The bush is healthier afterwards. Take off the top, the rotted and diseased parts.

It was? After the great terror, where thousands upon thousands of innocent people were executed, you had the rise of the dictator.

I think the "pruning" (note, this is a very Stalinesque way of saying murder) was something less than delightful for those that were "pruned". Many were killed for no other crime than the accident of birth. Not the place I want to go, thank you.

And the Great Terror led to the Great Dictator who spread destruction across Europe.

I am going to have to agree and pass on the whole "pruning" meme.

Prevention is the biggest part of the cure, and to notice a problem is brewing is the sign of a thinking mind.

I choose the illusion of both safety and freedom. Enough freedom so that I feel like I'm free and enough safety so that I can pretend that I'm safe.

Freedom and security is the right of all.. and to preserve it one must be strong.. technically, physically and mentally..

If you aren't free, you can't choose safety - you can't choose anything at all.

All Virtue is predicated on Free Will.

choosing safety is an illusion since no one in the history of our planet has ever been safe. this is not even a viable question.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Total safety sure. But there is relative safety. A lot safer sitting here at my computer, than it would be sitting on the freeway

You know, I've been blessed with beautiful, amazing children and I live in the most awe inspiring, beautiful place on Earth. There are places not that far from my home where a man could drop off the grid and live out his days completely apart from society if he wished. Given that, I'll take both whether the government (or anyone else) deems that we are worthy of them or not. The line from Braveheart:

They can take our lives, but they can never take our freedom

rings quite true. Laws related to liberty can only restrict a man's freedom to the degree which he decides to abide by them. Further, a man's freedom and liberty can only be taken if he allows it to be taken and places more value upon his life than he does upon his freedoms.