I pledged an oath, so what do I do?

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posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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I have studied the US Constitution for some time. I am an Aussie so I am one that looks in from the outside.

I hope the OP does not mind, I think you need to look at this as a wider issue. OP, if you would prefer I will start a new thread but there are enough of these up at the moment.

I would submit the the Constitution can be viewed in two ways. One is that it is only a piece of parchment. The other is that the Constitution is there to protect 'We The People." Therefore to protect the Constitution, you need to protect the people that the constitution protects. The words on the parchment have meaning and it is those meanings that require protection.

Now let us assume that the POTUS orders all assault weapons banned. Let us then assume that some citizens decide to march on DC. The moment those marching are interfered with in any way, the oath to protect the constitution should come into play and the entire US military should move, without orders, to protect the constitutional rights of the people.

The US military does not require an order to protect the Constitution, that order has been given, given by the Oath that they swore.

This is why I am perplexed at the current situation. The Military should have acted way before now. The illegal detaining of US citizens without trial, etc etc ad infinitum.

The Constitution has been trampled on many times and yet the military does not act. They must! It is an imperative given by their oath!

If the Generals will not act then others must.

Just my thoughts looking in as an outsider. The protections are there.

P


edit on 15/1/2013 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 


First, you took an oath defend the constitution. If there is a conflict the constitution is the first thing you defend.



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by pheonix358

Originally posted by ADVISOR
reply to post by pheonix358
 


What link is that, none of my links are broke....

I just checked them like three times, and I am confused as tot he link you mean.



This one.

www.history.army.mil...

Firefox reports it can not find the server.

No biggie

P



That is odd, because when I click it , it works. www.history.army.mil...

Try purging your cookies...?



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 


S+F for you sir! Thank you for this. It's good to hear our men and women in military are thinking about what path they would have to take in the event a unlawful order is made.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 


Call me cynical, but I'm pretty sure the wording in the oath of enlistment and in particular "according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice" is no accident. For that matter whatever is legal can sometimes be, I dunno, either a half-full glass or a half-empty glass; take your pick.

If nothing else I think it's laudable that you're questioning what's right & wrong in terms of your personal ethic.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by k1k1to

just look at hurricane katrina footage...and all the "oath" holders kicking in Americans doors arresting them and taking their guns. many even going as far as saying they would kill an american if they had to, mind you this coming from an AMERICAN soldier.

like i said before, the oath is really directed to the current government and its military branch. what do you think would have happened to those soldiers if they would have said" sir i dont think i want to kick down my fellow Americans door, drag them into the street, place them in cuffs, and take their guns"...answer that
edit on 15-1-2013 by k1k1to because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-1-2013 by k1k1to because: (no reason given)


I am an ex-military man, served honorably and went to pursue other aspects of life when time came for me to moved on.

While as a young soldier, watching the news of how soldiers were firing upon civilians in other nations, I often pondered seriously what would I do, if as a soldier who had sworn the miiltary oath,if ordered to fire upon the unarmed masses protestors?

I realized I could not, with honor, disregard my sworn oath as a man, nor can I EVER turn that weapon, which was paid by my fellow taxpayers, along with my upkeep, upon them or pull the trigger.

I knew what I had to do:- remove the magazine from my weapon, unload all rounds, keep the weapon in safe mode, lay it on the ground, remove my rank and uniform and notify the commander officer of my stance.

This act will most certainly place me in prison, but so be it, for there is NO WAY I will ever fire into my own people, some amongst of them whom could even be my family members, relatives and friends. Better I go to prison with a clear conscience, then to be haunted forever by what I would have done if I had the uniform on.

Dishonoring the oath will only hurt myself and no one else, of which I alone am responsible for making it. But following an unconsciounable order to slaughter own citizens will hurt and harm far more innocent fellow humans, an act of murder by myself if ever I pull that trigger, of which I would be responsible, for to pull or not to pull, is within my human control.

Furthermore, as some consolation, my incarceration will not be long, as in such mass demostrations and for the leader of the nation to order citizen soldiers to fire upon their own unarmed citizens or failed to find other solutions to resolved issues such as happened in the Katrina aftermath, that leader himself will not be for long of this planet. He will either be booted out, or be hanged for such crime.

A soldier's weapon ALWAYS point outwards, in defence of the People, and never inward AT them.

Fortunately, I never had to face such dilemma, and hope you too, given free will as a human born, will never need to make such a choice.
edit on 16-1-2013 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 09:01 AM
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Haven't some of you people commenting heard of the term High Treason? This type of talk is not constructive, and the hinting of planning a coup against our Government or President (Which I keep seeing on ATS) because of civil distress or gun laws is ridicules.

Guns Laws are needed; Obama is not doing anything illegal to warrant anything close to this type of conversation. As a country we need to come together and work together to make this country what it once was. Starting a civil war because you do not like the laws that are being implemented, is not only irrational but unpatriotic, it would knock our country back to third world status.

Is living in a third world country more attractive to you then Obama, not allowing assault rifles to be purchased, and stronger background checks?
edit on 1/16/2013 by Djayed because: I am a math guy...what can I say~!
edit on 1/16/2013 by Djayed because: I am a math guy...



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 09:17 AM
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You sir,do not need the opinion of myself or others. Your loyalties are to doing the right thing?If yes...then your .doing it right.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


this is probably one of the most honest responses from a military person (if you are one) that i have ever heard. it was heartfelt,honest,and human...thank you

unfortunately not many share your view point on this matter. but hopefully you wont be put in that situation anytime soon.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 


Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Take it to the lord brother, there is a story in the bible where another great man had the same dilemma. Seek the lord and he will direct thy path. I do not remember the name of the guy in the story but I do remember he sought the lord and the lord did guide him through this dilemma.

I hope this helps.
We might not understand God's judgement but he is in control, Remember that ok.

2 Chronicles 20:6
And said, O Lord God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
edit on 16-1-2013 by OldSchoolMom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by OldSchoolMom
 


God is not gong to way in on this one, and doesn't really belong in the conversation.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 





I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other.... So how can I possibly keep my oath?


If your President has acted unlawfully, then he is an enemy of The Constitution.
Even the president must obey the Constitution, or he is guilty of mutiny, right?

The Constitution establishes the office of President,
The President did not draft The Constitution!



edit on 16-1-2013 by DeReK DaRkLy because: appended



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 


The american people are the importance. It is hard to say that someone like yourself should against the u.s in what they are doing. The longer these things happen the more people open their eyes but at the same time you still have people that don't care, or still follow blind orders. The people that follow blind orders when overseas fighting are the ones that go to prison for killing civies. How is this any different? One day there will be martial law all over the united states and people like yourself will have to answer this question every day. " Am i doing the right thing by taking away these peoples rights? " It happened to the jews, and normal german people before world world 2 and even though the u.s hasn't done so yet we can clearly see where it's going. The answer to your question, I have no answer to your question. It depends how far you are willing to go when you want to protect the people. Look at manning, all he done was try to give the people what he thought was right by taking the video.



Some people will say this is different but as to your question i think it's all in the same.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by OldSchoolMom
reply to post by iSHRED
 


Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Take it to the lord brother, there is a story in the bible where another great man had the same dilemma. Seek the lord and he will direct thy path. I do not remember the name of the guy in the story but I do remember he sought the lord and the lord did guide him through this dilemma.

I hope this helps.
We might not understand God's judgement but he is in control, Remember that ok.

2 Chronicles 20:6
And said, O Lord God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
edit on 16-1-2013 by OldSchoolMom because: (no reason given)

I'm not trying to argue your religion, nor take away anything from your post. Many people have religions and some claim that it's the cause of most wars. Any country is going to fall no matter what religion they believe in. The united states is made of pagans, christians, athiest, muslims, etc,etc. Religion has no right being in political matters.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Djayed
 



God is not gong to way in on this one, and doesn't really belong in the conversation.



God has already gave His word on this one, very clearly and in detail.
My voice belongs in this conversation just as much as yours does, No surprise that the same type of people who wants to end the freedoms of the people (including free speech) also hate God.

Romans 16:25-27
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by AnonN3t
 





I'm not trying to argue your religion, nor take away anything from your post. Many people have religions and some claim that it's the cause of most wars. Any country is going to fall no matter what religion they believe in. The united states is made of pagans, christians, athiest, muslims, etc,etc. Religion has no right being in political matters.


I respectfully disagree. America is a republic not a democracy. We were unique in that regard and we flourished because of it. We were founded on the premise that all men were created equal by God and have certain inalienable rights that no government can take away or meddle with because these rights are understood to come from God. The bill of rights and the constitution was put in place to make sure their was no misunderstanding. Our founding Fathers worshiped God. Our government has been changed. Those who were entrusted to keep their oath to upheld our laws have turned a blind eye to the violation of those laws if not directly violated them themselves simply by obeying unconstitutional demands put on them.

Now you might not agree with me and that's fine but don't you think it's nice that we live in a country that we have the freedom to discuss various points of view? Don't you find it odd that so many claim they believe in the freedom of speech EXCEPT when it is scripture from God's word. If I quoted Einstein you would have not commented against my participation here would you?

We either have free speech or we don't...this limiting it here and there is a cancer to the whole letter of the law (it is the snare of the devil). yes yes, the bible warns us of these times. It is not the limiting of speech at issue here, it is the limiting of unapproved speech at issue now. How far away we have come from what America once was. He tells us clearly about this very time we live in. Be not deceived.
We either stand for everyone's rights or we lose ours too (will we be hypocrites?). That is the trick they use...to say this group has this right but they find some reason to withhold that same right from another on some false or imagined premise. Let us not fall into these traps laid out for us.

Why would you be bothered that I share God's wisdom with the OP? Is it your opinion that the OP does not have a mind of his own and you must shield him because you think he is ignorant? God forbid. He sounded like a pretty thoughtful and intelligent guy to me. Based on his concerns he is seeking advice or guidance, perhaps truth. Why not have a little faith in the OP and let him regard or disregard whom he will ok brother.

edit on 16-1-2013 by OldSchoolMom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by iSHRED
 


Brotherman... this one was easy to solve. YOU TAKE THE HIGH ROAD. Do what is right, ALWAYS . Think, if you always do the right thing....who then can accuse YOU of dereliction of duty or disobeying orders ? The guy who DIDN'T do the right thing? .... Leaving it to you..... ?

As A Citizen Of the USA... you work for me... and my interests , not the stuffed shirt elitist big banker mouthpiece we get every 4 years.... Ask yourself: What would I want someone to do ?


“Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God.”
― Thomas Jefferson



“In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People."
(Canton, OH, Anti-War Speech, June 16, 1918)”
― Eugene Victor Debs, Voices of a People's History of the United States

“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”
― Jeff Cooper, Art of the Rifle



“The wisest thing in the world is to cry out before you are hurt. It is no good to cry out after you are hurt; especially after you are mortally hurt. People talk about the impatience of the populace; but sound historians know that most tyrannies have been possible because men moved too late. it is often essential to resist a tyranny before it exists.”
― G.K. Chesterton, Eugenics and Other Evils: An Argument Against the Scientifically Organized State

“Those who are capable of tyranny are capable of perjury to sustain it.”
― Lysander Spooner

“Constitutions become the ultimate tyranny," Paul said. "They’re organized power on such a scale as to be overwhelming. The constitution is social power mobilized and it has no conscience. It can crush the highest and the lowest, removing all dignity and individuality. It has an unstable balance point and no limitations.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune Messiah

www.facebook.com...



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by iSHRED
 





I pledged to both defend the constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC, but I also swore to obey the president. But based on what I currently see, they contradict each other.... So how can I possibly keep my oath?


If your President has acted unlawfully, then he is an enemy of The Constitution.
Even the president must obey the Constitution, or he is guilty of mutiny, right?

The Constitution establishes the office of President,
The President did not draft The Constitution!



edit on 16-1-2013 by DeReK DaRkLy because: appended



What does interviewing some #bag specialist do to prove anything?



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by OldSchoolMom
 


Didn't say your voice didn't belong, just gods. Also didn't say I didn't believe in God, shouldn't make that assumption. You know what happens when you assume...



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 11:24 PM
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>>>>>>>defend the constitution





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