A new philosophy: Ophelism , page 3

reply to post by AceWombat04

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Originally posted by AceWombat04

Of course, externally people can learn from that experience and benefit from those lessons. But what about the individual person during the event itself, and thereafter where they no longer possess meaningful consciousness?

They will still have the benefit whether they are aware or not. If they do not have awareness that comes with the benefit of no suffering.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
others can learn from this, but what of the individual experiencing it first hand subjectively and in the moment, who is trapped by impaired judgment and loss of reason to the extent that they cannot exercise or even fathom this philosophical application to their situation?

Even if a person cannot fathom the philosophical application of seeing the benefits of all situations, they will still try to keep themselves happy which means that the potential is there, or if not they will still have SOME happy moments as they try to keep themselves happy.

If they suicide it was because they couldn't see any other way to end the suffering. Their life is done and they will not have the pain of life (since they are dead - which is still a benefit I guess), and others still here can learn from this person's experience. That there are other ways than suicide.

Another thing is, when a person is close to death, it helps them to see the contrast between life and death and brings the potential to seeing the value of this life, such as a person who attempted suicide but decides to live and not do it again.


Thank you for bringing up this hypothetical situation because now you helped me realize something.

There is one benefit in EVERY situation no matter how horrible it is, what is it? The potential of changing it. If it is happening, there is a potential for it to stop happening.

reply to post by arpgme

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Ok I see the debate of this view and optimism is ongoing so Ill chime in again. Since you did respond to me I been trying to think of how it is different. It has nothing to do with future outcomes, they both are applied to present/future situations equally as many have stated. Both are used to benefit the persons mental state and promote health through positivity. The distinction and correct me if Im wrong is as follows. Both lead to positive thinking but in different ways. Yours is by finding the benefits in a situation regardless how bad it might look. Like someone hits you with their car, you would look at it as a new experience, things you might learn from it. While an optimist may not necessarily see any benefits from the situation but knows they can benefit themselves by not letting the situation get to them by controlling their mood.

Do you mean Panglossian?

"marked by the view that all is for the best in this best of possible worlds : excessively optimistic "

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AceWombat04

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They will still have the benefit whether they are aware or not. If they do not have awareness that comes with the benefit of no suffering.

But in order to be an application of a philosophy, do they not have to be aware of it? If not, then the application is by those outside their consciousness looking in, observing benefits of which they can never be aware or able to appreciate.

Even if a person cannot fathom the philosophical application of seeing the benefits of all situations, they will still try to keep themselves happy which means that the potential is there, or if not they will still have SOME happy moments as they try to keep themselves happy.

But what if those few happy moments are so few and far between, that they are dominated by suffering to the extent that for all practical intents and purposes - i.e. in the context of what their mind actually subjectively experiences irrespective of their will or intent - they are rendered moot?

If they suicide it was because they couldn't see any other way to end the suffering. Their life is done and they will not have the pain of life (since they are dead - which is still a benefit I guess), and others still here can learn from this person's experience. That there are other ways than suicide.

Another thing is, when a person is close to death, it helps them to see the contrast between life and death and brings the potential to seeing the value of this life, such as a person who attempted suicide but decides to live and not do it again.

What if their impaired judgment prevents the choice to not take their life? Many people who take their lives are not thinking clearly at the time. This goes back to what I said above, where the benefit to others is an external application of the philosophy by others looking in, not to the person subjectively going through the experience.

There is one benefit in EVERY situation no matter how horrible it is, what is it? The potential of changing it. If it is happening, there is a potential for it to stop happening.

This I have to disagree with you on slightly, personally. There are situations in my experience that we have no power over and cannot change. They just happen and there is nothing we can do to control or avoid them. And sometimes they happen too fast for us to rationally objectify the situation enough to view it in a philosophical light. I wish it was possible to change everything, or at least to view it in a positive, constructive light. But there are times when, despite our wishes and efforts to the contrary, this is simply not possible.

I will agree with you at least however that everything can be learned from. If not by us, then at least by others (because I don't believe it's always possible for the individual experiencing the event to successfully or effectively learn from it in 100% of cases, necessarily.) But regardless, I still think this is an excellent philosophy through which to view life, when and if we can. I'm just playing the skeptical role in the topic, because I think someone should. I don't actually disagree with the philosophy in principle or intent.

Peace.

reply to post by AceWombat04

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I have done some thinking and decided to change the definition just a bit. Instead of "benefit", it is rooted in success. Focus on your success, whether it is past, present, or future.

It is still distinguished from "opporunism" (taking self advantage) or "optimism" (being hopeful about the future and believing that now is the best possibility).

Focusing on past success is Appreciation.
Focusing on present success is Joy
Focusing on future success is Anticipation...

but if failure happens, don't dwell. Focus on success.

reply to post by arpgme

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Well, I would see that as a form of optimism, rather than make up a new word.

It is a useful way to look at things though. But not really groundbreaking either.

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