What really happened to the Pharaohs

Originally posted by Fimbulvetr
Lastly, did I read that correctly in that there is somehow a racial.. THING.. about the construction of the Aswan Dam? Really? Just sayin..

Cheers!

some of the kanuzi nubians that were displaced think it was strategic.
due to them being offered land in sudan....instead they relocated around egypt


peace

Caucasians are also Asian, Middle Eastern and North African

Originally posted by Obsrvr
Caucasians are also Asian, Middle Eastern and North African

asian, middle eastern and african....erm

and plutonian, satarnalians, atlantian, smurfians, thunder catians and aliens

lol

reply to post by thePharaoh

Can we at least agree that cats rock?

Originally posted by thePharaoh

this racist crap has to stop

the romans killed and enslaved them.....then they suffered for 2000 years ...forced them as far south as possible untill they built the aswan dam, which flooded the lands of the remaining pharaoh desendants...
and now people like you are pointing at a brown guy and calling him caucasion...then pointing at an african, probably from punt...in chains...and calling him nubian lololol

edit on 13-1-2013 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)

This mass exodus of black Egyptians out of Egypt and into the south never happened, pure fiction and no historical records of it happening. In actual fact the genetic testing done on mummy dna and comparing it to modern Egyptians shows that the only mass exodus over the last few thousand years has been by subSaharan INTO Egypt, so the complete opposite to what your claiming.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by obscurepanda

There weren't Hebrew slaves in Egypt (and by this I mean there is literally nothing to suggest there have ever been other than the Bible)...
Not trying to rain on your parade, but y'all do promote the denial of ignorance.

Actually the Book of Jasher, which is an entirely independent source than the Bible, reiterates that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt (except the tribe of Levi), and even explains the why and how.

The Book of Jasher certainly is "an entirely independent source than the Bible."

It's an 18th Century forgery.

Harte

reply to post by LUXUS


Luxus, Luxus, oh Luxus....you make me smile...but in a joker from batman kinda way! lol



here dude...read a book.. books.google.co.uk...

reply to post by thePharaoh



No I would prefer to read what the ancient Egyptians said themselves then oral account from a Nubian who teaches "African studies"

But here is a book for you with accounts from the ancient Egyptian perspective:

books.google.co.uk...# v=onepage&q=Daily%20Life%20Of%20The%20Nubians&f=false

Note how ancient egyptians often called Kush-ites "Troglodytes" which kinda proves that ancient egyptians viewed kush-ites as less civilized then the Egyptians shall we say. Little different then the view you are trying to put across ie that the kush-ites are the ancient Egyptians.....but then again afrocentrists will do what they must to reclaim their ( cough, cough) lost heritage

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by obscurepanda

There weren't Hebrew slaves in Egypt (and by this I mean there is literally nothing to suggest there have ever been other than the Bible)...
Not trying to rain on your parade, but y'all do promote the denial of ignorance.

Actually the Book of Jasher, which is an entirely independent source than the Bible, reiterates that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt (except the tribe of Levi), and even explains the why and how.

The Book of Jasher certainly is "an entirely independent source than the Bible."

It's an 18th Century forgery.

Harte

Some versions are forgeries, I agree, but one is not. Discernment is required, and even the authentic one is to be depended on entirely.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by obscurepanda

There weren't Hebrew slaves in Egypt (and by this I mean there is literally nothing to suggest there have ever been other than the Bible)...
Not trying to rain on your parade, but y'all do promote the denial of ignorance.

Actually the Book of Jasher, which is an entirely independent source than the Bible, reiterates that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt (except the tribe of Levi), and even explains the why and how.

The Book of Jasher certainly is "an entirely independent source than the Bible."

It's an 18th Century forgery.

Harte

Some versions are forgeries, I agree, but one is not. Discernment is required, and even the authentic one is to be depended on entirely.

The Book of Jasher has never been found, man. It first surfaced as a "translation" in the 18th century.

No one has ever seen the book itself.

Any different versions are based on the original forgery.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


My edition is the 1840 one, published by Artisan Publishers, the one with the orange cover, and it claims that it is translated from a single Hebrew manuscript, but does not state, that I recall, where this manuscript is now located. I will look into this further.

Edit: OK, I found the Wiki article on the Pseudo-Jasher document, and it must be what you are talking about. My edition does not resemble it, at least the description of the forged Jasher does not jibe with my memory of what I've read in the (real?) Jasher. I have had some problems with a few things in Jasher, and moved it to the back bookshelf, so to speak. However, I think we are discussing two different books.

Originally posted by rkingpin
We all know the biblical story of what happened to pharaohs.

But what is the scientifically/historically accepted facts about what happened to the pharaohs?

which pharaohs? the christian "archaeologists" can't even decide on which one died in the red sea, was it ramesses? thutmose? akhenaten? shishoq?

they all have different ones in mind.

the scientific historical narrative says the exodus didn't happen, the israelites were never slaves anywhere, but were a small canaanite tribe that rose to power when the canaanite tribal leaders lost support from egypt when i believe the sea peoples attacked them.

egypt held israel during the times the supposed exodus happened. there is no evidence of any pharaohs dying in the red sea or getting plagued by frogs and locusts, because well.. the israelites never left canaan. the stories like so many in the torah are polemic attacks on pagan religions during the babylonian exie, given that that was when the torah was written, of course it was compiled a few centuries later as proven by the documents at qumran.

a good book to learn about this topic is the bible unearthed by israel finkelstein, it has ruffled some feathers and gored a lot of sacred cows for showing just how made up the stories in the torah are.

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by Byrd
Actually, there's almost no evidence of the Hebrews being in Egypt before the time of the Greeks and Romans. Egyptians didn't keep a lot of slaves -- too expensive.

there was evidence of hykosis from turkey/canaan

there was evidence of ME arabs

not only was akhenatens cult removed...so where the foreigners....over the next 200 years

by Ay, horemheb
by ramsees and seti
ramsees2...dealt with them

but when he died....and merenptah passed....the foreigners were back in egypt

ramsees 3 was killed
up intill the end of TIP....

untill the south rose again.....with the "nubians"

the south kicked out foreigners with narmer
nub-amun
tuthmosis
Ay
ramsees
taharaq

and many many more...throughout the course of AE....

there is a current nubian village called Abu-hor...father of horus - in aswan

peace

you have no idea what you are talking about, akhenatens' religion was the national religion, forced on to the people, he was hated because he would destroy the temples of the other gods because he considered them mere emanations of the solar disc the aten.
the religion barely survived king tut, who of course was killed off, akhenaten was labeled a heretic and his name was struck through.
the people and the priests went back to the old gods with little thought, no one needed to dismantle anything, akhentens' attempt to create a monotheistic type of religion died out with a whimper.

by the way all you are doing is perpetuating wrong facts, the hyksos were not hebrew, manatho perpetuated the idea that they were due to mistranslation.

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by LUXUS
How many forts did the egyptians build in the south to keep the Nubian/kush-ites out????

These are your kush-ite/Nubians, clearly not Egyptians

[

THESE ARE FROM THE LAND OF PUNT
ie MODERN KENYA, UGANDA. SOMALIA

these are not thebans

also thebans and ku#es are different...BUT TODAY BOTH ARE LABELED NUBIANS. also kenya uganda and somalia are labeled as nubian....racists like yourself done the labeling

its like saying...new york isnt american...because the rest are blacker lololol
one land ..many tribes...all called today NUBIAN
get it?

erm..narmer came from the south. [begining]
AY came from the south. [middle]
and taharq came from the south. [end]




this racist crap has to stop

the romans killed and enslaved them.....then they suffered for 2000 years ...forced them as far south as possible untill they built the aswan dam, which flooded the lands of the remaining pharaoh desendants...
and now people like you are pointing at a brown guy and calling him caucasion...then pointing at an african, probably from punt...in chains...and calling him nubian lololol

edit on 13-1-2013 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)

what the heck is this gibberish?
those are pictures of nubians, that was how egyptians depicted them.

AY is thought to be part syriac and egyptian so you are wrong.

by the way blame the egyptians, that is what they called all south-saharian peoples.

by the way the eygptians enslaved your nubians,
The Nubians
During almost the entire Dynastic Period of Egypt's history, the Nubians (or Nehesyw) were considered by the Egyptians to be "vile" and "wretched". The official view of the Nubians was clear from a Middle Kingdom boundary stele of Senusret III from Smna which denounces them:
"They are not people one respects; they are wretches, craven hearted. My majesty has seen it, it is not an untruth. I have captured their women, I have carried off their dependents..."

this is how much they cared about nubians, even when there was a nubian pharaoh they still depicted defeated nubians.
the egyptians realllly loved the motif.

TO THE TWO POSTERS ABOVE

"if your gonna bring it"...then stop regurgitating secondary and tertiary rehashed reworks of pre WW1/2 north europeans

the primary studies and disscussions can be found online....use a .org site

@demongoat

firstly mate..get the texts and read it, you wont find the word nubian anywhere.

the only people to use the term nubian was greco roman pharaohs
about 332bc

for the 3000 years before that...
it was the nile provinces
below it kush
below that punt

and the only reference to the word NUB-ian...was, in one of the pharaohs five names...it meant gold
ie - one of tutankamuns other name is, Nub Kheperu Re

so the word nub-ian is driectly linked to the horus kings


the seperation of the tribes happened during akhenatens cults acitivity in middle egypt, seperating north from south drastically....leading to the kush-ites in the south becoming strong...which is why they came to power,
untill the end

and how can you mention sensurat hahahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaha
a12 dynasty foreign inbred
conevniant - the 7 to 11 dynasty are obscure....15th dynasty was foreign

when you read the term...built into nubia..or pacified the nubian....shows the level of scholarship of the author
the land is nubian..yes in modern terms, but they were individual tribes only today labeled nubian
sheesh

@'the other poster

Ay was nefertitis dad...akhenatens wife.....AY came from the SOUTH with Horemheb and the army and the ramsees kings
there are no assiriyans in the VALLEY OF THE KINGS.....which is the most important point.

Ays wife could of been assiriyan.... maybe!?

peace

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

Note how ancient egyptians often called Kush-ites "Troglodytes" which kinda proves that ancient egyptians viewed kush-ites as less civilized then the Egyptians shall we say.

no they didnt

the royal line...especially in abydos and thebes...considere everyone to be inferior

the assyrian tribes and the african tribes

but before that period....and after wards......the thebans stuck woth the south....but the cults went with the assyrians


im tired now

yes the pharaohs looked like the milkybar kid and they travelled from mongolia...

Originally posted by thePharaoh
TO THE TWO POSTERS ABOVE

"if your gonna bring it"...then stop regurgitating secondary and tertiary rehashed reworks of pre WW1/2 north europeans

the primary studies and disscussions can be found online....use a .org site

@demongoat

firstly mate..get the texts and read it, you wont find the word nubian anywhere.

the only people to use the term nubian was greco roman pharaohs
about 332bc

for the 3000 years before that...
it was the nile provinces
below it kush
below that punt

and the only reference to the word NUB-ian...was, in one of the pharaohs five names...it meant gold
ie - one of tutankamuns other name is, Nub Kheperu Re

so the word nub-ian is driectly linked to the horus kings


the seperation of the tribes happened during akhenatens cults acitivity in middle egypt, seperating north from south drastically....leading to the kush-ites in the south becoming strong...which is why they came to power,
untill the end

and how can you mention sensurat hahahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaha
a12 dynasty foreign inbred
conevniant - the 7 to 11 dynasty are obscure....15th dynasty was foreign

when you read the term...built into nubia..or pacified the nubian....shows the level of scholarship of the author
the land is nubian..yes in modern terms, but they were individual tribes only today labeled nubian
sheesh

@'the other poster

Ay was nefertitis dad...akhenatens wife.....AY came from the SOUTH with Horemheb and the army and the ramsees kings
there are no assiriyans in the VALLEY OF THE KINGS.....which is the most important point.

Ays wife could of been assiriyan.... maybe!?

peace

edit on 16-1-2013 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2013 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)

you know if you are going to attack people for being "racist" try not being racist yourself.
since when does being a northern european make it wrong? or a lie?
is egypt lying about their own culture? i think egypt knows a bit more about their culture than you and your bigoted rightwing black nationalistic propraganda books.

www.touregypt.net...
yep that is sure some northern european regurgitation!



yep i bet you have all your little prooftexts ready when you swing into every thread spewing word salad and meaningless gibberish.
handwave away, tell me how experts in a field are wrong because of where they come from, even though they know more about it than you or your heroes do.

also you seem you have an inability to understand anything in your knee-jerk need to attack, attack, attack.
try understanding this, your babble about nubians? it is all irrelevant, the egyptians, even the the nubian areas they annexed stopped thinking of themselves as anything but egyptians.
hence my pointing out that they still loved the defeated nubian motif, even those who were nubian!

why the heck are you pointing out the phaoroh was foriegn born? do you think that matters? the point was that your propaganda is meaningless since the NUBIAN pharaohs still treated the NUBIANS like trash.

the stela in question says nubian, or the word we translate as nubian, what a weak argument... it isn't nubian in hiroglyphs so therefore it does mean the land south of egypt? right hahha

i never realized that just because someone is born in a certain city, that means that their ancestors are too! experts say there is no way AY was all egyptian, his name could be spelled half a dozen ways like his father's.

i didn't say assyria i said syria.

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

Note how ancient egyptians often called Kush-ites "Troglodytes" which kinda proves that ancient egyptians viewed kush-ites as less civilized then the Egyptians shall we say.

no they didnt

the royal line...especially in abydos and thebes...considere everyone to be inferior

the assyrian tribes and the african tribes

but before that period....and after wards......the thebans stuck woth the south....but the cults went with the assyrians


im tired now

yes the pharaohs looked like the milkybar kid and they travelled from mongolia...

how did that refute what he said again?
oh right it didn't, all you said was "nuh uh! it it was this slightly different label!"
who cares? the egyptians didn't divide themselves in any way but "i'm an egyptian and better than you."
this type of semantic gainsaying is just asinine, you have no arguments just "i don't agree with you, since it doesn't prop up my natiionalistic beliefs!".

Originally posted by thePharaoh
TO THE TWO POSTERS ABOVE



firstly mate..get the texts and read it, you wont find the word nubian anywhere.

the only people to use the term nubian was greco roman pharaohs
about 332bc

for the 3000 years before that...
it was the nile provinces
below it kush
below that punt

and the only reference to the word NUB-ian...was, in one of the pharaohs five names...it meant gold
ie - one of tutankamuns other name is, Nub Kheperu Re

so the word nub-ian is driectly linked to the horus kings

I could say that everything you have wrote is incorrect because you are writing in English and the ancient Egyptians never knew English so it must be wrong...Nubian is the word we use in modern English when we are talking about Kush-ites.... are you saying that the ancient egyptians were capable of building pyramids but they were incapable of giving the primitive tribes to the south a name...it was beyond their level of intelligence was it, these people were so complicated they couldn't give them a name

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
OK, I found the Wiki article on the Pseudo-Jasher document, and it must be what you are talking about. My edition does not resemble it, at least the description of the forged Jasher does not jibe with my memory of what I've read in the (real?) Jasher. I have had some problems with a few things in Jasher, and moved it to the back bookshelf, so to speak. However, I think we are discussing two different books.

In fact, IIRC, there are around five different books.

Nobody has ever seen the Hebrew version you mention.

Harte